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Another new guy checks in (choosing a sawmill)

Started by DanG, October 31, 2001, 07:49:20 AM

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DanG

Hi. I've been lurking here for a bit, and I'm finally speaking up at the behest of the good Mr. Cadenhead.
I don't have a mill, yet, but I'm on the look. I've been dreaming of owning one for several years, but I work full time(+) and farm part-time. There just ain't enough time in the day to justify the cost of one. I'm planning to retire in a couple of years, and plan for sawing to become one of my main activities, so I want to purchase my mill soon, and start on the active phase of the learning process. I'm in  a bit of a quandry about whether to buy a new, manual mill, or to go with a used, more sophisticated one. My leaning, at this time, is to go with the manual mill, such as a LumberMate, then upgrade later, if things are going well enough. What do you guys think?
BTW, Tom, I'm going to visit the guy I told you about on Friday. I saw some of the stuff he sawed for my brother, and he seems very competent. Bro is tickled to death with his work.
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

Tom

oh, I gotta get in here......you have opened up a a bunch of cans of worms.    Let me see,,,where do I start... :D

Dreaming of owning one:  I did that......I started with the first advertisement I saw of a woodmizer in 1981 or 82 and haven't quit dreaming sense. There is always one bigger and better and faster and less labor intensive.  But...dreaming won't do it.  You gotta push yourself over the edge.

Time in the day: You think you got problems now?  Wait till you get a mill.  You will wonder where the time is to do your own sawing.  It fits in with farming though because in both instances you punch your own clock. I think I like that part best.

Retiring: Ah-h yes.  That wonderful time of relaxation when you don't answer to a boss and punch a clock and get to fish and shop and play with trucks, tractors and sawmills.

Whew!, I'm going to do it again one day.  I think maybe it is the kind of thing that you have to learn how to do.  

I love my Boss, different from days of yore. He's not a slave driver and lets me take off anytime I want.  The problem is that He is so congenial that I feel guilty taking off so I keep on keeping on and forget to stop till the wife calls me in and says I've had enough.  I keep waiting for him tell me what a good boy I am but he just keeps on finding something else for me to do.

Sawmill now?:  Yep, that's the ticket. If money is a question then maybe a manual mill now to learn on wouldn't be so bad but it should be the type of mill you plan to run later. Bandmill, swing blade, circle saw, chainsaw mill.
If it were me I would be looking at a bandsaw mill, .....not that I'm prejudiced, you understand.

If you can swing it, you should make your first mill be as up-to-date as possible.  That means hydraulics and all the bells and whistles that will diminish the amount of labor. Retirement also means that you are getting older and stamina begins to drop drastically. You look for satisfaction in different things than when you were 21 and looking to raise a family.  I used to pick up big logs and muscle them around...but no more.

If you plan to work the mill then you definitely want log handling capabilities.

Brother:  Oh yes, I've got one of them too.  They tend to be a pain in the neck as your growing up even though you love them to death, but in Retirement become a good friend and, if your lucky, a shoulder and a sounding board.

Where is your brother?  You mean he's into sawing wood and you haven't introduced him to this place yet?  I don't know if it will stand another set of brothers but it's sure worth a try.  

You know, the neat thing is that I have come to feel pretty brotherly toward all the regular members of this forum.  I guess that is just a danger we all face when there are people around us who share our likes, emotions and personalities.

Yeah, and who is this sawyer that your brother used.  He needs to come over sometime and visit too.

Glad to have you aboard, Dan.  This is going to be a fun trip, you'll see.

DanG

Thanks for the warm welcome, Tom. Let me tell you more about my position. I' ve looked at a lot of mills, and I'm almost definitely going with a band mill. That is, unless I run across a Mobile Dimensions circle mill for an absolute steal. That was the first mill I played with, and I've been intrigued with it ever since. However, the band jobbie seems the most practical for me. I've watched the WM range, the Kasco's, Hud-son, Baker, Norwood, and Schmidd, but the one that impressed me most is the "Southern Sawmill" rig. It is built by an old guy in Phenix City, Ala. This guy is an interesting story in himself. He's gotta be 75 if he's a day, but he builds these things in his backyard shop. The mill is a wonder of simplicity, and everything on it can be bought in any good parts house. His price seemed to be a little high, till I started looking at the "extra cost options" I would have to purchase to make the others usable. His mill is "ready to saw" right out the door, including the trailer package, each one custom built to length and engine choice. Any automatic features, such as turners, loaders, self-pull, etc, can be added later if desired. He will even sell me a saw head to mount on my own trailer, if I want to. The main thing I like about it is the strength he builds into it. It is a STURDY unit. He and his granddaughter brought 3 mills to the Ag Expo in Moultrie, Ga a couple of weeks ago, and he didn't even have a brand name on them. He just got out there and sawed with all the young factory reps, loaded his own logs, and had his GD passing out brochures. DanG! I think I just sold myself! I'll go see him when he gets back from visiting his son in Oklahoma next month.
WOW! I got a little wordy there, didn't I?
Looks like the visit with the sawyer on Friday is off. He's gonna be out of town. As far as getting Bro on here, he ain't into sawing. In fact, he ain't into anything that resembles work. He's just having a house built, and bought his flooring, siding, and some panelling from the guy.
Sorry to take up so much space. Time to go eat a bite and go to bed.
DanG
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

timberbeast

Welcome,  Dan!!  I have a Mobile Dimension,  It's fast!  Good luck in finding what you want!
Where the heck is my axe???

Tom

Dan, consider support when you buy your mill.  It is a big item and gets lost in the excitement of purchase.  His mill may be a good one and you will be happy but if it isn't, what do you do. What happens if the power plant breaks, bearings fail, steel bends etc. Do you take it back to him, does he come fix it, Is it yours as soon as you walk off the yard?

What is his experience with sawing.  Who do you go  to when you run into a sawing problem you can't identify.  Is there to be an upgrade path? Has any testing been done on recommended blades?  What is his philosophy about Steel band wheels or V belt tires or neoprene and where do you go to get steel wheels re-crowned?

I mention this because I've been there

DanG

Tom, you bring up some very good points. This is the type of feedback I'm looking for.

First, with the Southern Saw, I guess I'd be pretty much on my own. I can't count on this guy being around to hold my hand. However, I probably wouldn't be looking to Woodmizer to do so, either. I wouldn't be overly concerned about the occasional repair, as everything on this mill is easily obtainable. I would rather scoot down to the local NAPA, than to wait several days for someone to ship me a part. As far as the powerplant is concerned, it would have the mfg. warranty, which is about all you get from the other outfits.In fact, I was studying some literature from the others, and found a glaring pricing disparity. The difference in their price between their 9hp manual start, and the 15hp electric start was MORE than the total price of the same 15hp engine from northern toolhttps://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=position"> Note:Please read the Forestry Forum's postion on this company. Now, what were they gonna do with the money they would have spent for the 9hp motor?
My other point is this: I cannot currently afford to shuck $30,000 for a top-of-the-line hydraulic mill, especially since I don't really know if I can make a go of it.I'm stuck with the options of buying a new manual mill, or an older, well used, automatic one. There is a WM LT30 on Sawmill Exchange for under $10K, as well as a 20 year old Mobile Dimension for about $9500. Are these things built well enough for a 20 year old machine to be a safe buy?
Your last statement leads me to believe that you had to learn one of these lessons the hard way. Can you go into any details about it?
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

woodmills1

just a note, if you intend to work by yourself, you will need the support of the hydraulics.  i was going to buy a new non hydraulic woodmizer, but went with a used hd40 hydraulic at just about the same price.  i now know i would not have been able to cut alone, without support, had i bought the non hydraulic.  just something to consider.
James Mills,Lovely wife,collect old tools,vacuuming fool,36 bdft/hr,oak paper cutter,ebonic yooper rapper nauga seller, Blue Ox? its not fast, 2 cat family, LT70,edger, 375 bd ft/hr, we like Bob,free heat,no oil 12 years,big splitter, baked stuffed lobster, still cuttin the logs dere IAM

DanG

Thanks James. Could you expand a bit about your purchase of  a used mill? Did you find yourself making frequent repairs because of wear? How much use had the mill had, and how old was it? If I could be just a little nosey, how much did you have to pay for it? I would certainly like to have all the hydraulic goodies, though I could handle the logs with the help of my tractor, and some winches. Of course, doing it that way would slow me down considerably, cutting my income at the same time.
Timberbeast, I take it you're pleased with you MD mill. How does it seem to be holding up? Do you think a 1980 model would have a lot of life left? Have they made a lot of improvements over the years that would make a 20 year old mill obsolete? I'd really appreciate you input, here. I'm thinking I'd like to have my mill stationary, rather than taking it to the customer's site. This would allow me to take advantage of my tractors, as well as the sheds and barns I already have. Do most of you guys saw at home, or on the road?

Tom, after re-reading my last post, I realize I sounded a little argumentative. I hope it wasn't taken that way. I'm just trying to gather all the input I can before taking the big step. I tend to want to hear reasons backing up the opinions, I guess, so if I was offensive, I apologize.
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

woodmills1

well, i paid $16,000 for my 1993 HD40 in 1996, turns out the previous owner needed money for the IRS.  I got the full hydraulic mill, sharpener and setter, 60 blades, and a log wizard debarker.  i borrowed most of the money and paid it off in two years.  the nice thing was it only had 130 hours on it, though most of the settings for alignment were out of wack.  as far as repairs i dont think they have been excessive.  along with routine maintainence i have replaced almost all of the track rollers and an alternator plus battery.  right now at 1600 hours it needs a replacement muffler, but understand this mill is always outside.  it still cuts as sweet and true as it did after i got all of the settings in line.  the only scare i had was at 800 hours when the onan sounded like it threw a rod, but it turned out to be carbon build up which i cleared up with the old water in the carburator trick my grandfather used to use.  woodmizer makes a very good product and provides excellent support.  there are improvements to newer mills like better clamping and taper rollers that i would love to have, along with others i dont feel i need like automatic setworks. where are you located?
James Mills,Lovely wife,collect old tools,vacuuming fool,36 bdft/hr,oak paper cutter,ebonic yooper rapper nauga seller, Blue Ox? its not fast, 2 cat family, LT70,edger, 375 bd ft/hr, we like Bob,free heat,no oil 12 years,big splitter, baked stuffed lobster, still cuttin the logs dere IAM

Papa Dave

Welcome Dan:

Your story sounds so similar, I thought I was reading about myself.  By the way, I am originally fromPerry, Fl, so I am familar with Chattahoochie, Fl.

I wanted a mill real bad and want to retire and build a post and beam house and also cut some wood along the way.  I did not want to invest thousands, so I decided to build my own mill.  It is designed to cut 36 inches by 11 ft. and sits on a trailer.  You can add extensions to any lenght you want. The design is very similar to those on the market today. It has a new 18hp vanguard engine and very heavy duty Noram centrifigual clutch. It is a heavy duty rig.  Cost about $3500 for parts and material and about $10,000 of my time.  You also have to be real handy and have lots of metal working tools, welders, etc.  It also took about a year and a half of my spare time to build.

But I am a hobbyist and this is just thearpy for me and I love to play with it. Not sure this is the best way for most folks, but it worked for me.

I do plan to put full hydraulics on it next year.

 If you are planning to use this mill to sell lumber and make money, then I would recommend you buy a mill with as much hydraulics as you can.

 8)



DanG

Hi, Dave. If you want to saw lumber, you oughta move back to Perry. There is an awful lot of it standing in those woods.
I thought about building my own mill, but have decided to just buy one. Looks like a WM LT40 is about the standard of the industry, so that's what I'll be looking for. I'm gonna post some updates on my situation in a new thread. Y'all stay tuned.
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

timberbeast

Hiya,  Dan!  I'm quite happy with my Mobile Dimension,  and it isn't mobile.  I have it set up on 12x12 bunks out in the woods.  It's 12 years old,  and the only trouble I have had is with the endstands sticking due to pitch buildup,  and uneven settling of the ground.  I don't know how much they have changed since I got mine 12 years ago,  I think mine has a 1700cc????  Volks engine,  retrofitted.  It doesn't use any oil yet,  but I would be wary of any older mill,,  because you never know what it's been through,  or how it's been maintained.  I've only hit metal twice,  as my land is in deep woods,  both times they were bullets,  and did no damage.  I keep the inserts sharp and everything oiled and greased that has to be.  One disadvanyage is that you have to shovel lots of sawdust if you don't have a conveyor,  so you can keep the tie-rods free.  The biggest advantage is that you never have to turn a log.  I can cut up a 25" log by myself in about 15 minutes.  I went to one wood mizer demo before buying the MD,  and it was awful slow,  but I'm sure there have been many improvements,  and the folks on this board who have them love them.  Oh,  another disadvantage to the MD I have is a 5/16" kerf for the vertical blade,  and 1/4" on the horizontals.  That's a lot of lost wood when you add it up over a few cords!  It's also very user-friendly,  and all you have to do is watch one work for a few minutes,  and you can understand it.  Not cheap,  though.  I seem to recall paying about 14 grand for mine,  but I've definitely gotten my money's worth!  Don't buy anything used unless the guy will let you run it hard for awhile,  that's just my two cents worth!  You can also buy extra track sections to increase the length of cut,  and different endstands to increase the diameter you can cut.  I can go to 50-some inches with 48" endstands,  but you have to remember that the way the saw works,  you can't get a board wider than 12 inches (at least on my model).
Where the heck is my axe???

etat

If ole DanG don't hurry up and get his computer fixed I'm a gonna start taking up a collection for him!!!!
Old Age and Treachery will outperform Youth and Inexperence. The thing is, getting older is starting to be painful.

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