iDRY Vacuum Kilns

Sponsors:

How many of you have experienced the death wobble in fords?

Started by HemlockKing, June 18, 2021, 06:30:47 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

HemlockKing

I Can't believe these trucks do this, how does ford even let something let that get sold? https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4JV7L8bBo1Q
A1

HemlockKing

"Military grade aluminum" aka cheapest stuff we could find. Rest In Peace steering components. That can't be good
For the front end at all lol
A1

Old Greenhorn

I had the same problem but much worse in my Ram 2500 a dozen years ago. Turned out it was the bushing in one of the cross bars (I forget the name) that was known to go every something thousand miles. Scared the crap out of me. Would only hit at a certain speed (68 mph) and stop when I got it below 55. Had that bushing replaced twice while I had the truck. About 300 bucks each time.
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

bannerd

Typically happens when you have worn suspension items.  When they went to coil overs it seems to be more common because the bushing in the lateral links would fail.  The older trucks that had leaf springs had the issue but it was very uncommon because the bushing in the leaf springs took for ever to wear out.  The old dodges/fords had this nailed with the single cross bar and the steering off the knuckle (danas).  As long as the crossover was tight it virtually killed DW.

For a new truck it's under warranty I would think?  They heavy duty trucks should be coming with dual dampers so that is odd it is happening in that.  Unless the brought back that stupid track bar design that ends up going to a knuckle at the other side of the vehicle and running a single damper in between. 


Roxie

Cowboy Bob's F350 did it and we had a friend that hauled horses with a diesel dually that did it. 

My observation was that the front wheels were leaving the ground. No amount of complaining or trips to the dealership ended or fixed the problem. 

For what it's worth we traded the piece of junk in for a gas Chevy 2500 that out pulled (he was a livestock dealer/hauler) and out handled the Ford. 

Say when

HemlockKing

Quote from: bannerd on June 18, 2021, 07:44:46 AM
Typically happens when you have worn suspension items.  When they went to coil overs it seems to be more common because the bushing in the lateral links would fail.  The older trucks that had leaf springs had the issue but it was very uncommon because the bushing in the leaf springs took for ever to wear out.  The old dodges/fords had this nailed with the single cross bar and the steering off the knuckle (danas).  As long as the crossover was tight it virtually killed DW.

For a new truck it's under warranty I would think?  They heavy duty trucks should be coming with dual dampers so that is odd it is happening in that.  Unless the brought back that stupid track bar design that ends up going to a knuckle at the other side of the vehicle and running a single damper in between.
These are seemingly in newer trucks though? I’m assuming the front end just wants to go it’s own way due to slop , whether that be from worn bushings, bearings or just bad design resulting in prematurely worn bearings/bushings. Front end ends up trying to compensate for that and “jumps”
A1

Southside

They put all the R+D into the Infotainment system so the CD player won't skip when that happens.....
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
White Oak Meadows

HemlockKing

Quote from: Roxie on June 18, 2021, 07:59:28 AM
Cowboy Bob's F350 did it and we had a friend that hauled horses with a diesel dually that did it.

My observation was that the front wheels were leaving the ground. No amount of complaining or trips to the dealership ended or fixed the problem.

For what it's worth we traded the piece of junk in for a gas Chevy 2500 that out pulled (he was a livestock dealer/hauler) and out handled the Ford.
I'm just learning about this design flaw, I've never owned a ford, and probably won't ever after searching up these plentiful videos of this death wobble, this is the first videos I watched, I thought the initial start was the death wobble, then it hit HARD(the real death wobble) totally unacceptable imo I'd be back to that dealer faster than you could drop a pen https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZsRrcPLwBb8
A1

HemlockKing

In that previous video it's already so wobbly to begin with the guys sounds like he's talking while sitting on top of a washer machine 
A1

HemlockKing

Quote from: Southside on June 18, 2021, 08:23:44 AM
They put all the R+D into the Infotainment system so the CD player won't skip when that happens.....
Just when cds are going way with the doo doo birds lol 
A1

Texas Ranger

The Ranger, home of Texas Forestry

mike_belben

ive had it in every make of truck except IFS toyota or chevy.  so i guess every solid axle i can remember.

the hardest to trouble shoot was a leaf sprung 86 K30, no lift, stock rubber size.  i did kingpins and check spring bushings a few times, steering box was tight. friend who bought it end up determining it was actually the rubber, solved when he changed tires.  thats the only time i can say it was the tires.  adding a steering damper may have been enough to solve that. they have no track bar.  


on all the fords, its the track bar, pretty much always at the axle end. the slightest bit of slop will wobble.  

on 2nd gen dodge its the trackbar but its up at the frame end near the steering box because they use a stupid balljoint design.  after 3 track bar replacements (theyre pretty much annual in a dodge so just get a 1yr warranty cheapo in town and replace every year on cue) i finally cut the bar and grafted up a conventional double capture bushing mount and welded a 2 tab mount to the frame.  turned a delrin bushing oversize and pressed it in, drill it undersize and beat the bolt through.  fantastic after that as everything else was new and tight.  

obviously tie rod ends, balljoints and shocks have to stay tight too.  

my 01 f250 4wd did it really bad and that one it was a blown stabilizer and shocks.  i changed the track back out of habit and the old one was tight.  the new one is already going south and ill probably put the old one back in.

on jeep cherokee is pretty much all the same combo.  and those so often have lift kits with poor steering geometry that theyll get bump steer that then turns into deathwobble. i solved that by building a proper heim jointed tie rod and parallel track bar/draglink but it required cutting and welding mounts too.  no bumpsteer or wobble even without a stabilizer after.

actually .. dont think my 84 toyota leaf sprung solid axle never did it.  98 nissan frontier did a bit  when the steering idler on the passenger side got sloppy. 


any time you have a track bar look there first.  and obvious alignment plays a role.  i prefer 1/8" toe in.
Praise The Lord

HemlockKing

Mike I've only run chev or Toyota so maybe that's how I've avoided it this long, that and I don't like to
Mess around with worn chassis items as adds much risk to ones life 
A1

mike_belben

theyve all got their issues.  just luck of the draw. 


you can buy the best vehicle on earth and get T boned just the same. 
Praise The Lord

firefighter ontheside

I've never had it in one of my personal trucks.  I've owned Ford Super Duties since 2002.  I did have it happen with out fire department 2009 F350 SRW.  It felt like it hit a harmonic where once it started it wouldn't stop until I brought the truck to a stop.  I believe they replace bushings and steering damper to fix it.  I also believe a part of the problem sometimes is having way too much tire pressure in the front tires.  This tends to happen to me after a truck goes in for service and they inflate the front tires to something like 80lbs.
Woodmizer LT15
Kubota Grand L4200
Stihl 025, MS261 and MS362
2017 F350 Diesel 4WD
Kawasaki Mule 4010
1998 Dodge 3500 Flatbed

barbender

Mike is on point. I've had it happen in second and third gen Didge pickups. The 2nd gen was just a slopped out front end, rebuilt it and the problem went away. The 3rd gen was simply a worn steering damper. My mother and I were on the way out to Wyoming, hit the interstate and got up to 70 mph. Hit an overpass that was on a slight curve, the little bump set it off. My mom thought the world was ending😂😂 I was just irritated, any DW survivor knows the drill🤷🏽‍♂️ Bring it to a stop and start over. It made for a long trip, I couldn't break 65 mph or when I'd hit a bump we were shakin'😂 All it ended up being was the $50 steering damper, should've just replaced it along the way. To this day (this was around 5 years ago), you bring this subject up around my mom she gets all worked up. I think I gave her PTSD😂
Too many irons in the fire

K-Guy


I grew up on a GM car lot and had many vehicles over the year and drove even more different ones when I was in the military. All brands have their quirks good and bad, I find people tend to over do these types of things. I'm not saying the dealers are virtuous and will fix it because it's the right thing to do. They will do because of liability and bad press.
Nyle Service Dept.
A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.
- D. Adams

HemlockKing

I can say I have a car from every brand that I like. For chevs I like the  3rd and 4th gen 1500 trucks. I also own a 3rd gen camaro And I love that. From ford I like the 60-70s Lincoln continentals, my grandfather had one too, was a boat of a car! Dodge I like their trucks of today. I daily a Toyota Tacoma, that’s been a nice midsize truck. I’m certainly not one to rag on a fella for driving a certain brand.
A1

21incher

My 2005 f350 4wd srw had it. Dealer said it was caused by letting front tire pressure drop below  65 psi.  That fixed mine and Ford sent out a tsb about  it a couple years later. It's  a real rough ride on 10 ply tires and 70 psi in them without a load plus the center thread wears quickly. My new Chevy is a dream to drive.
Hudson HFE-21 on a custom trailer, Deere 4100, Kubota BX 2360, Echo CS590 & CS310, home built wood splitter, home built log arch, a logrite cant hook and a bread machine. And a Kubota Sidekick with a Defective Subaru motor.

HemlockKing

Quote from: 21incher on June 18, 2021, 11:52:40 AM
My 2005 f350 4wd srw had it. Dealer said it was caused by letting front tire pressure drop below  65 psi.  That fixed mine and Ford sent out a tsb about  it a couple years later. It's  a real rough ride on 10 ply tires and 70 psi in them without a load plus the center thread wears quickly. My new Chevy is a dream to drive.
Last chev truck I ran was 08 1500 ltz. That was probably the easiest riding truck I've had comfort wise. 
A1

bannerd

Quote from: HemlockKing on June 18, 2021, 08:19:42 AM
Quote from: bannerd on June 18, 2021, 07:44:46 AM
Typically happens when you have worn suspension items.  When they went to coil overs it seems to be more common because the bushing in the lateral links would fail.  The older trucks that had leaf springs had the issue but it was very uncommon because the bushing in the leaf springs took for ever to wear out.  The old dodges/fords had this nailed with the single cross bar and the steering off the knuckle (danas).  As long as the crossover was tight it virtually killed DW.

For a new truck it's under warranty I would think?  They heavy duty trucks should be coming with dual dampers so that is odd it is happening in that.  Unless the brought back that stupid track bar design that ends up going to a knuckle at the other side of the vehicle and running a single damper in between.
These are seemingly in newer trucks though? I'm assuming the front end just wants to go it's own way due to slop , whether that be from worn bushings, bearings or just bad design resulting in prematurely worn bearings/bushings. Front end ends up trying to compensate for that and "jumps"
If you look at the old truck design there was a leaf spring that would take up the forward motion.  The big tractor trailers still run the leaf springs in a parabolic form.  The old chevy CK/K would get them too and toyota would get them as well.  It was rare with the leaf springs that it happen and if it did you could isolate it very quick because the suspension components are minimal.  Sometimes the only issue back then was a ball joint or a king pin/bearing.
The trucks these days are missing front support which the leaf provided.  To compensate this you have lower and upper control arms, links, torsion bars.. entire pitman arm and bars.. the list goes on.  Not to mention the large coil over and bushing/bearings there.
If you take a tractor trailer front end suspension and you put the type of suspension in a common heavy duty truck... now apply the forces when slowing down (loaded) and accelerating.  There is a massive stress here... I couldn't imagine a full load on the back of a semi-truck.  If you slammed the brakes loaded all that suspension would literally be destroyed or worse.. snap off.  Big rigs still use leafs and air bags to keep the rid smooth and can be compensated with a liquid spring.

I believe this is why it happens so frequently and parts are getting dumped into newer trucks.  We had the same issue in the 2005 Dodge cummins trucks in our fleet.

mike_belben

Quote from: firefighter ontheside on June 18, 2021, 10:32:58 AMIt felt like it hit a harmonic where once it started it wouldn't stop until I brought the truck to a stop.  
thats basically what it is.  the wheel has mass and is spinning fast.  its a big gyroscope held tight to a spindle constrained by numerous other parts.  when any of them get sloppy the spindle isnt held so rigid anymore and the forces flying around that gyroscope bouncing down the road start transmitting that energy into frame components.  


shocks are a damper.. dampers attenuate frequencies and dissipate them as fluid heat.  if the damper cant do that the harmonic continues and if its able to achieve its resonant frequency, it amplifies continually.   its a lot like a a driveshaft thats unbalanced.  youve got first order harmonic, then cancellation.  then 2nd order harmonic, then cancellation as the rpm increases so thats why a driveshaft shimmies at several speeds.


with deathwobble, the right bump at the right mph will get it started and often that light wobble will amplify into its 1st order harmonic.. resonant frequency whatever.  if slow down enough it falls out of that zone and stops, or if youre cowboy/stupid enough to hang on and gas it out, it will also clear up.  though i dont recommend it.  deathwobble can pull a balljoint or steering tie rod apart pretty quick.  

i suspect when a circle saw goes wonky, its basically doing what death wobble is.
Praise The Lord

Southside

First time it happened in my '97 Dodge dually I had never heard of it and was certain that the front axle had broken loose from the frame as I didn't recall running over a small passenger car that may have been stuck under the wheel. 
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
White Oak Meadows

firefighter ontheside

I had heard of it but never experienced it, until it happened to me.  My first thought was, "this is death wobble".  I thought at the time that I had blown a tire.  I got the truck stopped on the shoulder and went to go look at the flat tire and found nothing.  After that I googled it and assumed it was only a Ford thing and the first couple hits I got on it were about Dodge.  In no way would I decide never to get another Ford because of it.
Woodmizer LT15
Kubota Grand L4200
Stihl 025, MS261 and MS362
2017 F350 Diesel 4WD
Kawasaki Mule 4010
1998 Dodge 3500 Flatbed

dgdrls

Never in a Ford Truck,  once in a '66 390CI Fairlane,  front end was worn out,  rebuilt, all good.

Numerous times in the Service Station Jeep Commando.  Learned to not exceed 45 MPH in that buggy.

D

Thank You Sponsors!