Just the Facts, the Crown virus.

[Sedgehammer]

In this country you will be arrested if you have known dx. and go out in public without a mask.  for public safety.  no one wants that.  If there is a high probability that as a result of your stupidity, innocent people will get sick or die, then you will be stopped.  like drunk driving.  just stupid.  there is no shortage of not so smart and or only care about themselves and the here and now people.  sorry I just got off a 12 hour shift.  had to check to see if there was a full moon.  not yet!  :D

County? I know you're tired. Thanks for what you do! I understand. I do. My wife works in it everyday and has been exposed many times. The clinic requires masks if you want to enter and that's fine. That's choice. Don't go to businesses that don't require masks. 
I, nor my wife are for the government forcing people to wear a mask or stay home. Now, if you knowingly give it to someone you could be sued for that. Same as what happened with HIV carriers. That's what's suppose to happen. Again, stupid people should win stupid prizes. Not the government being a nanny state. 

[Hilltop366]

Hey Doc you almost sound Canadian the way you worked that apology in there, now if you start off the sentence with an apology you may have to move north.  :D

Here in Nova Scotia we are 5 days of no known cases and 15 days of no new cases, we had a few weeks of no new cases before but an infected person came from another country to travel on to PEI for school but seemed to think he was above the 14 day isolation rule and was turned around in PEI but not before he infected the guy from PEI that came to pick him up who in turn infected 2 other people in PEI. One of the 2 worked in a seniors home but thankfully was contacted in time,  it easily could have turned into something way worse.

It just shows how easy covid can be spread by one person who does not want to follow the rules.

[nativewolf]

In this country you will be arrested if you have known dx. and go out in public without a mask.  for public safety.  no one wants that.  If there is a high probability that as a result of your stupidity, innocent people will get sick or die, then you will be stopped.  like drunk driving.  just stupid.  there is no shortage of not so smart and or only care about themselves and the here and now people.  sorry I just got off a 12 hour shift.  had to check to see if there was a full moon.  not yet!  :D

County? I know you're tired. Thanks for what you do! I understand. I do. My wife works in it everyday and has been exposed many times. The clinic requires masks if you want to enter and that's fine. That's choice. Don't go to businesses that don't require masks.
I, nor my wife are for the government forcing people to wear a mask or stay home. Now, if you knowingly give it to someone you could be sued for that. Same as what happened with HIV carriers. That's what's suppose to happen. Again, stupid people should win stupid prizes. Not the government being a nanny state.

The issue really being is your decision going to cause harm to others.  That's why we don't allow drunk driving.  You personally can't stop other people from driving drunk but they may run into your car and kill you.  How can a dead person sue someone to get a life back?  You can't.  Therefore we have rules to prohibit drunk driving.  Just as we have rules to prohibit many many other things or to force many things (filing tax returns, etc).  We always have, always will.  Our economy just took a 35% plunge-worse than the great depression, in just a few weeks.  150k people have died, more than any other nation.   Any HIV carrier is in no way shape or form comparable.  You have surely interacted with HIV positive people and never known it.  It is not contagious without very specific behavior or terrible misfortune.  This virus is contagious and simple proximity is enough to cause risk unless ALL people are wearing masks.  
Soon we should have a vaccine and it will be nice to not have to worry about the masks.  Until then, do society a favor and wear masks.  It is not a restriction on freedom but a contribution to a healthy society- who  doesn't want to contribute to a healthy society. Simple, easy to do, inexpensive.  

[nativewolf]

In this country you will be arrested if you have known dx. and go out in public without a mask.  for public safety.  no one wants that.  If there is a high probability that as a result of your stupidity, innocent people will get sick or die, then you will be stopped.  like drunk driving.  just stupid.  there is no shortage of not so smart and or only care about themselves and the here and now people.  sorry I just got off a 12 hour shift.  had to check to see if there was a full moon.  not yet!  :D

Keep up the good work doc, looks like virus getting going again in the midwest.  

[Hilltop366]

County? I know you're tired. Thanks for what you do! I understand. I do. My wife works in it everyday and has been exposed many times. The clinic requires masks if you want to enter and that's fine. That's choice. Don't go to businesses that don't require masks.
I, nor my wife are for the government forcing people to wear a mask or stay home. Now, if you knowingly give it to someone you could be sued for that. Same as what happened with HIV carriers. That's what's suppose to happen. Again, stupid people should win stupid prizes. Not the government being a nanny state.

So you have acknowledged that you are at high risk to come in contact with a known infected person and still think you don't have any responsibility to others until it's to late?

It's like closing the door after the horse has bolted.

It's really the opposite of your rationalization, the more freedom you have the more responsibility you have to not harm others with your actions.

 

[Sedgehammer]

no, it's the fact that you have no clue or idea what's around the corner. My wife wears a mask at work. What more can she do? She cannot fix stupid. Is she, are we suppose to live in fear? We don't go to church any longer. Our friends know the situation and if they want to come over, that's their choice. We've declined invites to friends homes. Looks like we lost who we thought was our best friends over a birthday party decline.
Vaccinations, not this family. With the little testing that will be done, no thanks. I don't trust the entirety of this. 

[Sedgehammer]

In this country you will be arrested if you have known dx. and go out in public without a mask.  for public safety.  no one wants that.  If there is a high probability that as a result of your stupidity, innocent people will get sick or die, then you will be stopped.  like drunk driving.  just stupid.  there is no shortage of not so smart and or only care about themselves and the here and now people.  sorry I just got off a 12 hour shift.  had to check to see if there was a full moon.  not yet!  :D

County? I know you're tired. Thanks for what you do! I understand. I do. My wife works in it everyday and has been exposed many times. The clinic requires masks if you want to enter and that's fine. That's choice. Don't go to businesses that don't require masks.
I, nor my wife are for the government forcing people to wear a mask or stay home. Now, if you knowingly give it to someone you could be sued for that. Same as what happened with HIV carriers. That's what's suppose to happen. Again, stupid people should win stupid prizes. Not the government being a nanny state.

The issue really being is your decision going to cause harm to others.  That's why we don't allow drunk driving.  You personally can't stop other people from driving drunk but they may run into your car and kill you.  How can a dead person sue someone to get a life back?  You can't.  Therefore we have rules to prohibit drunk driving.  Just as we have rules to prohibit many many other things or to force many things (filing tax returns, etc).  We always have, always will.  Our economy just took a 35% plunge-worse than the great depression, in just a few weeks.  150k people have died, more than any other nation.   Any HIV carrier is in no way shape or form comparable.  You have surely interacted with HIV positive people and never known it.  It is not contagious without very specific behavior or terrible misfortune.  This virus is contagious and simple proximity is enough to cause risk unless ALL people are wearing masks.  
Soon we should have a vaccine and it will be nice to not have to worry about the masks.  Until then, do society a favor and wear masks.  It is not a restriction on freedom but a contribution to a healthy society- who  doesn't want to contribute to a healthy society. Simple, easy to do, inexpensive.  

People drive drunk all the time. That's my point. Stupid people do stupid things and should win stupid prizes. A mask does so little. Most are just pieces of cloth and the virus freely flows through it. Even the N100/P100 that are suppose to catch it all usually don't, as they aren't wearing them properly. Plus no one is wearing face shields or goggles.
Good luck on those vaccines. We'll skip the genie pig stage. 

[alan gage]

I think we're drifting off course of the intended topic of this post.

Normally I'm all for a good thread drift but in this case I think we're gonna get in trouble pretty soon.

Alan

[doc henderson]

so it is a world wide pandemic, with a novel virus.  (this is why we are not the greatest generation).  Actually the scientific community is doing a fantastic job, and the goal is to manage the spread so we do not lock the hospital door and leave people to fend for themselves, a true disaster.  We are fortunate to live in a country where we are free to make choices.  If our choices impact innocent people, we are held accountable.  It usually takes 10 to twenty years to get to the point we are at now.  This could have been so much worse.  not trying to pick a fight, but hold true to the title of this thread.

[Jeff]

What the hell did i say about debate in this topic?  
R e a d  t h e
 f l i p p i n   t o p i c  
t i t l e.

[Jeff]

Sedge hammer, ill mute you. You were warned once. You YOU caused the other topoc to be moved to restricted. I WONT move this one but I will handle those Individuals that disregard admin decisions, and to be moved from regular forums means moved out of the forum or lose the ability to post or correspond 

[Hilltop366]

I will apologize for contributing to the drift/debate.
Sorry.

[Sedgehammer]

Me to. Sorry everyone. 

[Jeff]

Thank you guys. Carry on.

[doctorb]

An office assistant came to work after developing symptoms AND getting a Covid-19 test. (I know there will be some posters who relate how foolish that was. She, and everybody else knows.) 2 days later her test came back positive.  Office "cleansed".  Risk assessment performed by Infection Prevention.  They stick to the CDC's 6-15-48 rule.

You have to be within 6 feet of the infected person, for 15 minutes, and have this exposure occur 48 hours before they developed symptoms, or after.  I was within 6 feet, for about 5 minutes, and she had already developed symptoms.  So I do not check all the boxes for a high risk exposure.  No one in the office checked all the boxes.  So the office is still open, with much more stringent behavior by the staff.

I, however, have voluntarily quarantined myself.  I get a test on Tuesday.  Testing too soon after an exposure give false negative rates close to 70%.  It's not a lot of fun not seeing anybody.

What was most illuminating about this incident was the info from the Infection Prevention nurse specialist.  She says there have been multiple similar exposures across our health system.  She says the dynamic is always the same.  Medical office workers are friendly and familiar with their co-workers, and virus related behavior is not well practiced.  They eat together.  They trust each other.  They hate talking on the phone while wearing a mask.  And they often have to jump up from their desk to put out some fire somewhere.  In other words, they behave in many ways like the pandemic isn't there.  The nurse also said that the office personnel always assumes that any viral risk to them will come from the patients. In her experience, the virus exposure usually comes from the office staff.  So we are our own worst enemy.

I am on day 5 and feel fine.  I get tested on Tuesday.  If negative, I can start inhabiting the other half of the house and go back to work, assuming no one in the office develops symptoms.

[Sedgehammer]

@doctorb 
I can see that. Or I should say I do see that. When I went in for my initial appointment, I saw that in the clinic. Some of that behavior is really, really hard to change.
Good your not seeing any symptoms.
My wife's experiences are she always finds out several days later. The office has to call past seen patients to even find out. There is no back tracing or care to. It has been as long as 10 days until patient finally returned calls. Management expects staff to get tested on their own time & dime. 
Clinic is setting up for blood testing. That'll be interesting. She's already working 10 to 12 hours a day. 
I did get my blood tested when I donated before my surgery. They won't show that in your account like they do the cholesterol & PSA. They mail it. 14 to 21 days later. 

[gspren]

@doctorb it's time for you to start practicing for retirement anyway!

[doc henderson]

all of the employees at our hospital that have tested +, got it from friends and or family outside the hospital.  so far!

[Sedgehammer]

all of the employees at our hospital that have tested +, got it from friends and or family outside the hospital.  so far!

That's good and bad! Shows you're doing a great job there anyways. 

[Stephen1]

Old habits are hard to lose, Yesterday friends dropped by on thier way around the lake. I buy beer from the local micro brewery in "Growlers". I pulled a plastic cup out of the cooler and there was a bug or something in it, I blew it out and almost poured his beer in, whoops, The GF saw it and made a comment. So I retrieved a clean cup and poured him a beer. We had a good laugh, but it shows how simple it is to slip up. 

[Don P]

Something made the paper yesterday and it brought up something that was mentioned on one of these threads. They were warning about methanol in some of the hand sanitizer on the market now, be especially cautious of sanitizer coming out of Mexico. Methanol, wood alcohol, will go through your skin and can cause headaches etc, blind or poison you.

In other news one of the local nursing homes has had 131 cases, staff and residents. I noticed in the classifieds that they are hiring and offering a $5k sign on bonus.

[doc henderson]

hazard pay.  Our hourly rate was reduced 10%.  Lots of things are true, and you can get toxic on alcohols, but with limited use prob. a theoretical.  but lots of good ol ethanol, and isopropyl as well.  I use denatured for my cookies (wooden) and never think twice about pulling stuff out with my hands..

ps the ethanol has to go on the outside of the hands to be effective, not consumed.  

[doctorb]

@doctorb it's time for you to start practicing for retirement anyway!

I was, and still am, practicing for my retirement.  Was originally scheduled for April Fool's Day this year.  My wife and I had multiple trips planned to search out potential relocation areas, if we decided to do that.  We will definitely downsize.  Kids are gone.  House and 34 acres are too big.  In January, my daughter let us know that she's getting married this coming December.  Didn't seem to make much sense to move out of our current house into a new one while planning a local wedding.  So we decided to stick it out for one more year.  
Then the coronavirus showed up. Put a stop to those exploration trips.  Also put a stop to moving out of this house for the foreseeable future.  So......retirement is approaching, but in a very different way than we had originally planned.
Day 6 and no symptoms.  

[Ianab]

This is an analysis of the current situation here in NZ. What was done to control the virus, and some planning around what to do if it gets lose again. There is a chance that may happen as folks are still returning home with the virus, but so far that's been caught in the quarantine. Staff at the quarantine hotels catching it is the most likely vector. Precautions are taken, but nothing is 100% with this virus. 

It's written by some University professors that are on the committee that's advising the Govt. Interestingly there is consideration about using masks next time as they may help. Research previously was "mixed", so they weren't recommended, but the consensus seem to now be that they will do more good than harm. That's the scientific evidence, not a political decision. 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/122375799/100-days-without-covid19-how-nz-got-rid-of-a-virus-that-keeps-spreading-across-the-world

[Ianab]

Keeping the Virus out of the US Antarctic bases. 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/122376826/us-military-in-managed-isolation-in-new-zealand-ahead-of-antarctica-trip