Timber stairs

[Nuts]

Hey friends.
I just wanted to share my project. I recently took an interest in pre 19th century architecture, masonry, timber frames etc. I find it interesting that the quality of craftsmanship was so much higher in the past than today. It's almost as if we lost a great deal of skill in the 1800's and the 2x dimensional lumber was developed to accommodate a lack of skill (and lack of large timbers??).

I eventually want to take on a large timber frame project. These stairs are my first attempt. The wood is hemlock. I put the stairs in the basement of my farmhouse. I love over building.


 







 




 

[Mooseherder]

That is an awesome project.

[Ljohnsaw]

Very nice!  I'd go a step further and house the treads about 1/2" to 1" into the stringers.  Then the tenon would be longer and you could drop a tapered oak peg/wedge in a larger hole set back from where you have the nails.

[frazman]

Excellent work. I like it. Looks heavy.

[thecfarm]

I like the look!!

[Don P]

I do like heavy timber stairs, those look nice. Housing the treads is a good idea, it helps keep them from rocking as the wood moves. The old timers would make a tapered housing, with a tapered wedge under the tread that could be tightened later.

Stairs are one of the more regulated parts of the building code, for good reason, I think it is the second most "dangerous" place in the home. For open risers and most spaces related to the stairway a 4" sphere cannot pass through the gaps. As sawyers, that can often be accounted for with the thickness of the tread.

This is a good handbook that explains the building codes related to stairs;
Long link

That is an older free version, their most recent handbook is available for sale at;
https://www.stairways.org/SMA-Books

[Ljohnsaw]

Also, you can go into your Gallery and rotate pictures 2, 4 & 5 so we don't get a crook in our necks! :D

[samandothers]

Makes my arms and back ache thinking about assembly!  Like the look!

[frazman]

Just wondering, was the wood air dried or green? Looking at something in this design for my wife work shop.

[Nuts]

ljohnsaw yes I considered that and it would look nice. I don't own a router and my heavily pregnant wife wanted me to finish the job pronto!  :D Thank you for the suggestion. I will rotate the pictures.

frazman I think it was air dried but they were still wet in the center and smelled bad when I cut them. Yes it was very heavy. I grunted a lot getting the second stringer pounded into the treads one at a time. Ratchet strap was a game changer.

[Ljohnsaw]

I don't own a router

Router? Router?  We don't need no stinkin' router!

Mark (scribe) the treads on the stringers.  Then just use a really sharp chisel.  You could use a Forstner bit to hog out most of it.  My bits are about 3/4" thick so I would just drill down until flush with the top surface.  Then it is really easy to clean up with a chisel.

(broke the picture link to #2 & #3)

[Nuts]

I don't own a router

Router? Router?  We don't need no stinkin' router!

Mark (scribe) the treads on the stringers.  Then just use a really sharp chisel.  You could use a Forstner bit to hog out most of it.  My bits are about 3/4" thick so I would just drill down until flush with the top surface.  Then it is really easy to clean up with a chisel.

(broke the picture link to #2 & #3)

Thanks for the tip! I've been timber framing for about 3 days and have a lot to learn. Anything else you would change? This project is done but I imagine I'll do another set eventually.

Love the Blazing Saddles quote. Made me chuckle.

[Ljohnsaw]

If you are going to make them the same way (except for adding the housing), I'd make the tenons a bit longer.  You want enough "relish" so they don't split when you put the peg in place.  As the wood expands and contracts with the weather, there could be a bit of force on the pegs that, in turn, try to push out the end of the tenon.  Not sure of the split-ability of hemlock but probably want at least 2" between the end of the tenon and the beginning of the peg hole/slot.  I might go as much as 3".

[Nuts]

If you are going to make them the same way (except for adding the housing), I'd make the tenons a bit longer.  You want enough "relish" so they don't split when you put the peg in place.  As the wood expands and contracts with the weather, there could be a bit of force on the pegs that, in turn, try to push out the end of the tenon.  Not sure of the split-ability of hemlock but probably want at least 2" between the end of the tenon and the beginning of the peg hole/slot.  I might go as much as 3".

Yes okay. The design I imitated had vertical wedges inserted laterally into the face/point of the tenon, and then the protruding part was trimmed quite short. I cut the treads intending to wedge the tenons. The spikes were a plan B I conceded after going over my time budget.

[Brad_bb]

Budget?  You couldn't afford the wood wedges?  Um, grab some hardwood firewood and make them.

That's pretty darn good for a first project.  I'm not a fan of using metal with wood though ala the spikes.  I'd use wood wedges.  Many times when building stairs like this, you can get away with wedging every other or every third step. The wedges keep the assembly tight, and if it shrinks a little, you can always give the wedges another tap to make sure they stay snug.

Housing the treads helps hide gaps that can happen as things shrink. Should be functional though.

[Nuts]

Brad,

I ran out of time, not money. We are renovating our 1800's post and beam farmhouse and my better half wanted me to move onto a task that wasn't "non essential".

Thanks for the suggestions. It's not too late to replace the spikes with wooden wedges. I think the next stairs I make will be a little better.

[sawmilllawyer]

I like what you did for your first timber frame project. Looks heavy enough to last.

[TimFromNB]

Nice work!

[AK Newbie]

Awesome first project!  I have timbers cut to make a wood shed this year.  That will be my first timber frame project.  Hope it turns out as good as yours.

[frazman]

I like Brad's idea on the wood wedges. It would make for a nice and clean finish. I'll have to keep that in mind for my build.

[Blueberries]

Really love those stairs and my partner and I salavated over them!  We're already thinking about which species to use or the treads and stringers!  And of course, the ideas given by the others regarding wedges and wooden pegs would really be good ideas for the project.

I don't actually mind the old nails used as pins on the treads. We've used old square nails pulled out of old barn timbers to hang cast iron pots and pans from and I think wood and iron can have some interesting unions on a building project!

Nice job!

[kantuckid]

I'm in the "mood" for rustic stairways today.
I tallied the EWP logs I bought yesterday and among them are some logs bigger than the typical D-log yielding tree log, but too nice to pass up for a wood freak like me. I do now own lots more wood than I'll need for my wall logs in the side lumber as part of the reality of starting from scratch. It is of course far cheaper than buying from a commercial source as I paid the sawmill rate for these premium logs. (FWIW, I also bought the top logs and some short stuff as stack log build use them easily anyway and he'd not get much for them at the mill that buys such logs for same purpose as mine, plus another haul for him.)
I have little need for that side lumber since I already have wood piled from here to yonder.  :D

My mind wandered from sawing 4/4 WP paneling boards and selling them off, plus some grade wood for later projects and to other uses such as lots thicker stuff for tabletops as some butt logs are clear of knots and near 22-24" small end. Only the very tops are branchy on these trees. 3 -16' logs from many of them. 
Stairways I've toyed with lots of ideas I've seen others do such as log stringers, or huge single log stringers, and so on. One I just saw used tread tenons with tapered wood wedges, timber was maybe 2.5" thick and a safe set of stairs vs. something more artsy. Thats my fixation for now. 

If the tread tenon is fairly wide, does it still wobble in the slot over years of drying? My eyes don't care a lot for the big nails tenons-I much prefer the wood wedged tenon idea. 

My build is small and a typical narrow stairway against one wall in a corner with probably one landing at the turn. Side lumber will easily saw out such timbers while chasing 6x8 cants with one bark edge in the big logs.
I'm leaning toward 2.5-3" stringer beams x2, and similar treads. For a table, some natural edge thick slabs/glued up for top and side benches to chow down.
I'm not into 1/2 log treads much as I see someone falling easily. Ideas are welcome, not that I need somebody to design it either. Typical loft stairway instead of a ships ladder for mostly kids or young adults to use.  

[Don P]

From memory on this link, check out stairways.org for stair codes. Doesn't matter if they are enforced or not, our feet walk in that pattern, stay very close to those rules.

If the stairs are open riser there can be no more than a 4" gap between treads, that makes for a thick tread and if square a thick nosing that is a tripping issue to think about. Use risers and save ankles and small staircrawlers.

The traditional way is probably the best for keeping the treads snug if you have access to the underside, a tapered half dovetail wedge under the tread driven in as needed. aside from seasonal movement treads go through round after round of polite compression set and just plain old hillbilly crushing.

I'm not saying I wasn't a major influence on joint wear but Michelle's hip and knee surgeries this year were triggered by a full roll down the stairs, around the landing and to the tile floor below. I can't even picture the geometry but sure heard the sounds. I know of several deaths from falls on stairs. Do not stray far at all from what people's bodies are used to traversing. I'm not a fan of steep or odd or artsy for a daily path of travel. That doesn't make it easy sometimes. With my wife it should be easy, a motion activated light, she doesn't get to be polite and walk in the dark  .

[kantuckid]

Good info, I do know the stair basics well. The small kids comment makes good sense i.e. open treads!
 Thick treads are a challenge to do safely and not having toe-catchers is a thought vs. a normal safe nose on the treads. Our basement steps had a bunch of side rails dating to 3 rugrats here in the beginning. Now only one handrail there. 
I have one outside into thew basement that meets a set of porch steps with a 4' wide "plateau" (kind of like a fence style) between them-never a problem but I got tired of people saying it looked dangerous so I built a trap door sort of floor addition and placed the removable ERC cross timbers there to shut them up. In my mind it wasn't an issue for sober people or those not blind, but one of my DIL's Dads badgered her about it all the time so I relented mostly to him a worrywart who calls her in TN with weather info, etc.. :D