The Feed Crop, Grain, Forage and Soil Health Thread

[Southside]

Army worms are more interested in the stage of growth of the plant than the plant species.  Up north they hammer hay fields of perfect Timothy, down this way it's Fescue.  What do both have in common?  Well a Timothy hay field gets harvested at the same time so it's a single species all at the same stage of growth.  Same thing with late summer un managed Fescue.  All one species, all lignified and gone rank, so the woms have a field day, and they are cyclical, you will never stop them.  Just like the Spruce Bud Worm.  Comes around every 30 or so years, and it wasn't a massive issue in Maine until the late '70s when it began to show up as a lot of Fir and Spruce was right at the same age point after the fires in the '40s and timber practices of the time.  Massive blocks of single aged timber.  Just natures way of giving another species a fighting chance.  

[wisconsitom]

Nitrogen in the soil profile is too unstable to be measured.  Any measurement would be essentially a tiny snapshot of something that was changing anyway.  Tough to measure soil N.  There exists a test called Kjeldahl or some such.  That one gets N, but I have no idea if it makes sense to reach for what is surely an expensive proposition.  My answer to N in gardening (definitely not in forestry!) is good organic matter levels combined with spoon-feeding.

I became this community's horticulturist in 1989.  While such items as planters, flower beds, and the like now make up perhaps 20% of my job, at that time it was incumbent on me to improve some seriously worn-out soils.  I immediately began adding compost, primarily in the fall, and the rest was history.

Numerous folks asked me "what kind of Miracle Grow are you using there, Tom"?  Now we still did and do use chemical fertilizers although definitely not the consumer-grade stuff..  I practice "spoon feeding" on such plantings, with great, and I may as well add, very easy success.  Get the soil good, add judicious, small amounts of nutrients constantly in the irrigation water, and that stuff is good to go.

Food gardening, I always went 100% organic.  Soil structure ultimately trumps soil chemistry, although neither one can be too far out of whack.

In forests, forget all this stuff.  Native forest communities are adapted to low, but constantly-available nutrient levels, supplied, as Mike correctly reports, primarily by fungal cohorts.  These fungi in turn rely on certain bacteria to enable them to do their jobs.  Adding lots of N to such systems is usually asking for trouble.  I always hate seeing the invasive woody species in our area-things like black locust or buckthorn with its green leaves into November-making for too much soil N which only paves the way for more invasive junk.  Pretty much anything still green in our woods right now that isn't pine or spruce is some kind of junk that shouldn't be there.  Adding N to such systems is not helpful.

[farmfromkansas]

Hauled all the composted manure to my east quarter, seemed like a lot of loads, but will not come close to covering the entire 160 acres.  We baled the grass, and plan to put the manure where the hay was the least.  Price of fertilizer is through the roof.  So I ordered bean seed to plant next spring on my farm ground.  Beans take a lot less fertilizer than milo or corn or even wheat. Wish I could generate enough manure to cover all my farm ground, and some for the grass.  Am going to feed alfalfa and oat hay on my grass this winter, as that in a way fertilizes the winter pasture.  Bringing in feed to the pasture gets the cows to apply their manure to the grass, which fertilizes the grass in a year or 2. Helps to harrow the area you feed in, to spread things out and break up the cow pies.

[mike_belben]

I had invested $25 into a pounda thisn a pounda thatn of seed just incase the midwest seed suppliers suddenly find all their inventory stranded in LA harbors or some other such nonsense next.. Figure one in the hand.  So id broadcast covers on my 3 current garden patches but the largest one really wasnt taking it in.  This summers corn bed i mulched in grass clippings and was able to run the seed in with tires because the grass prevented mud clumping.   The brassica bed is small and id worked the rows by hand then overseeded completely in clovers and rolled a 15g drum of oil over it for packing.  Germination on that one is quite good.



The biggest patch has austrian winter pea in the mix and its a big seed plus the bed is just too hard and sticky so the peas are sitting on the surface sprouting tap roots trying to find a pore to get into the dirt.  I think the results will be poor.   I mulched a segment of it ontop the seed with stump grindings for a trial comparison.  Like i said a lot is sprouting on the surface.. Specially AWP and winter wheat.  The clover seed is pretty good about getting a grip.  It dried up for 2 days from a wet week and i was willing to rip around with a fisher price play disc behind the quad today,  since im gonna lose seed anyhow it looks like.  Disk may have flung just enough dirt to bring some germination improvement but i dont know for sure.  If its a no go i will try frost seeding later on in the winter.  Learning either way i guess.

Im eyeballing a piece of 12" double wall corrugated drainage and seeing it full of concrete with a thru pipe for a nice ribbed cultipacker.  I had contemplated dogbowls or brake rotors welded together but thats a chore.  I dont have $600 for a worn out junk cultipacker 2 hrs away.  Thats probably more than it was new when i was a boy. 

I did get to study a real seed drill and know i can make one in the future when i get my machines, lots of bigger issues right now.   My tractor could never pull the co-ops drill but the dozer could if i plumb remotes.  im sure i can hang a pipe by chain under the blade for a front crimper.  If i ever lease acreage anyways.

[farmfromkansas]

Don't you have any old antique grain drills in Tennessee? Should be able to find an old one at a farm sale for cheap.  The latest drills here are 60'.

[Southside]

At 7 MPH that's just over 50 acres an hour......

[newoodguy78]

You're somebody when you're pulling that setup  :D

[mike_belben]

Don't you have any old antique grain drills in Tennessee? Should be able to find an old one at a farm sale for cheap.  The latest drills here are 60'.

Only one i see listed is $45k.  I guess what the scrap boom didnt get, the transplant yard art barn find crowd did.    
Every now and then a shot horse drawn 2 row corn planter comes up for several hundred more than im willing or able to waste. Id rather just build a good one.  I have a bunch of harrows and tool bar stuff in a container up north.  

[Southside]

You're somebody when you're pulling that setup  :D

My baler doesn't seem so fancy suddenly... :D

[Southside]

Mike, they are out there. I picked up my IH5100 drill for $500 and put about $300 in repairs into it. I will run that over 600 acres this year alone. 1980's technology. 

[mike_belben]

You're somebody when you're pulling that setup  :D

Yeah, somebody with a big note to cover. 

[mike_belben]

Mike, they are out there. I picked up my IH5100 drill for $500 and put about $300 in repairs into it. I will run that over 600 acres this year alone. 1980's technology.

I think itll be tough to find something heavy enough to plant into waist high rolled cover and still be pulled by 26hp.  Havent seen one yet.

[newoodguy78]

We have a 5100 drill here as well, which is not a no till drill. Tried a test on some ground that had a cover crop of Sudan and buckwheat mix on it. Mowed it then went in and drilled it with my fall mix, it's doing excellent. The buckwheat seems to create looser soil near the surface whereas Sudan creates a sod type layer. Keep in mind this stuff was was as tall as a 20.8 38.
With that small amount of hp might be better thinking more towards down pressure via springs or hydraulic versus deadweight. 
The other thing that helps immensely is drilling when after a rain (soil is softer) not always a good idea on tilled ground but the vegetation you're dealing with helps fro gumming up the disks. Another thing I've noticed is going in when the previous crop is still green versus letting it dry down allows the openers to cut better. The vegetation is softer in my opinion.

[farmfromkansas]

You need to look at Great Plains no till drills.  They are not so cool now, all the big operations are going for air drills.  I have a early model GP 15' drill on a no till cart.  It has a hinge so the drill follows the cart around curves. The cart has the colters that create a little groove for the opener to run in.

[newoodguy78]

What are you drilling in with it? No till I assume?

[mike_belben]

Will do, thanks FFK.

I planted some onion seed and potatoes that got too far gone today.  Its not chocolate cake yet but were getting there. 

[mike_belben]

In doing all this soil biology studying i kept encountering claims that conventional ag has wrecked the soil and replaced it with synthetic fertility that grows essentially fake food on a dead dirt sponge with continually reduced nutrient and mineral density in the foods it produces.  It seemed silly a few years ago.  If a tomato looks good it is good was my mentality.


I bought blueberries and peaches the other day.. We are mouth breathing lowlife walmart shoppers so im sure they come from the cheapest full chemical south africa or brazil slave producer.


Both of them are beautiful fruits, thats what makes a sale right?   Perfect shape and texture, no bruising or worm holes, huge and firm.  Oh baby good stuff.





Im not a picky eater at all.. Im like a trash pig, i wont complain or miss a meal.  

Well.. They both taste GROSS!   The peaches have no sweetness at all, theyre like bitting into a tennis ball of tastless rubbery, watery bland flesh.  The blueberries also have no sweetness.. Theyre like a cold mushy blue custard or a hardened plain unsweetened yogurt ball.  I cant believe how bad these taste and have now got to force myself to eat them so they dont go to waste. Stuff aint cheap.

  The tiny wild blueberries out in my woods are half the size of a skittle but taste like the blueberries i remember as a kid, a golf ball of flavor.  My friends up the road have a terrible sorry looking unmanaged apple tree and another neighbor has pears.  Both trees produce ugly runts with soft spots and fungal splotches.. you gotta cut around the worm holes.  But theyre an explosion of sweetness. 

I can remember when i was little and biting into a peach was like a sugar balloon pouring down your chin.  

Its sad but i guess its an opportunity at the same time.

[wisconsitom]

I strongly prefer wild lowbush blueberries, although any blueberry may find its way into my mouth if it's not careful.

One thing about big, big modern ag.....it's sending the best topsoil in the world down to the bottom of the Gulf of Mexico.

Increasing soil carbon, not nitrogen, not potash, not phosphates, is the food-growing challenge of the world.  More carbon in the soil-good.  More carbon in the air and sea-bad.  Most human activities contribute to the latter effect.

[Southside]

A lot of fruit is picked before it's ripened and then exposed to calcium carbide to ripen so it's not bruised in shipping and such, but as you said - there goes the flavor and texture.  

[stavebuyer]

Commercial "wax" fruit and veggies is why I go to the trouble to raise a large garden. I was raised knowing what real food tastes like. 

[moodnacreek]

I tried raspberries a few years back Fed the robins , deer, rabbits, woodchucks and we had a few. Tried 3 varieties and was disappointed in flavors.  To me at least you can't beat free range [chicken ] eggs or wild berries for flavor.                    In fur trapping it was wild mink/ranched mink as another example.  Even fancy hardwood lumber or veneer, grow it all on the same soil and it's all the same color. Walnut is a wood where you can easily see this; 'black', redish, purple, light brown. If a buyer works the same area long enough, he can tell where the logs where cut. If you grew up with all store bought  you might be happier. You can't miss what you never had.

[newoodguy78]

Another issue with commercially grown food is the varieties themselves that are grown. When choosing seed a lot of the time a decision needs to be made whether it's yield or flavor you want in the end. Essentially picking quality or quantity. The number of varieties for any given item you choose to grow is incredible.The cost difference for quality seed that produces a better tasting product tallies up fast. Most wholesale growers are working on very small margins as it is.  
Growing stuff when it really isn't meant to be grown effects the flavor as well in my opinion. We grow an early season green bean here. Usually plant them as soon as we can get across the field in early to mid April. Grounds cold and wet germination seems to take forever. Not much sun usually a brisk wind that time of year. While the do grow and produce I much prefer the later varieties, drop them in the ground the end of May they're headed for the sun about as quick as you plant them. Growing conditions are usually very good by then and the crops show it.
Customers are always looking for stuff early me personally I'll wait till the stuff is ready that was put in with dust coming off the furrow rather than early season stuff that got mudded in. Always tastes better.

[mike_belben]

I hadnt considered that, good point.  

I am always jealous of the guys peddling huge finished fruit in spring when i havent even seeded yet but im guessing theyre hoophousers anyway and i shouldnt be trying to measure up!

[moodnacreek]

For everything there is a season.   One year I planted some corn meant for the north country, 59 day sweet corn, and it was, tasted just like the dirt it was planted in.

[newoodguy78]

I couldn't agree more. Sweet corn is a prime example. At 59 days ours is far from ready but the wait is worth it. A few guys around here plant the short day stuff. A lot of their customers start coming here once ours start coming in. Our most popular varieties are the longest days to maturity we plant. It's not a coincidence.