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Beef Cattle Question

Started by 123maxbars, September 27, 2012, 05:12:41 PM

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123maxbars

Looking at getting a few head here on my farm. Is anyone in the beef cattle business full or part time? I have a few basic questions, please send me a pm if you are, thanks,
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Roxie

There are a lot of folks here that raise beef cattle.  If you ask a question, you'll get some good input.   :)
Say when

thurlow

Been retarred for a few years, but I was in the (commercial/cow calf) beef cattle business for 47 years, running at times almost 300 head of mama cows;  doesn't make me an expert.  I'd say just ax 'em right here.............. :)
Here's to us and those like us; DanG few of us left!

sparky1

grew up with beef cows at my parents.. That was one of the best things i found when I moved into my own place, no more chasing cows!!!!!!!! 8)  I still get called to help with fencing and other chores there, but no more chasing...

So why do you want to get into it? Tax write off??
Shaun J

chevytaHOE5674


DDDfarmer

Any questions you have I'm sure the group here can help you out..  Its also a good place to ask questions about forestry also  :D
Treefarmer C5C with cancar 20 (gearmatic 119) winch, Husky 562xp 576xp chainsaws

Okrafarmer

I've dabbled in cattle before and befive. . . . none now of my own, in fact I only had some for about a year, but I like the topic. It would be a good time to be raising grass-fed cattle in a place that doesn't have drought....
He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. Psalm 91:1

Operating a 2020 Woodmizer LT35 hydraulic for Upcountry Sawmill, Dacusville, SC

Now selling Logrite tools!

Writing fiction and nonfiction! Check my website.

WildDog

 Hi 123maxbars no need for the pm's mate, just ask away.  :)
If you start feeling "Blue" ...breath    JD 5510 86hp 4WD loader Lucas 827, Pair of Husky's 372xp, 261 & Stihl 029

LeeB

Not the OP, but i also have some questions. I have two cows that I want to have bred but know nothing about artificial means of doing so. Can this be done at any time or do they have to be done when the girls are in season?
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, JD 3032 tractor, JD 5410 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

Kansas

The question is, when do you want them to calve? Figure 9 months. Not sure what the weather is in your area. You may want them to calve at a particular time.  They pretty well can be bred at anytime. There is something that can "time" them, but I forget what the name of that is. It has two purposes. It keeps heifers from coming in heat when they are being fed out. Or, it is fed to heifers/cows that you want to time to all come into heat together. Basically, it stops cycling when fed.  Think if I remember right, you feed for 28 days, then yank them off if you want to breed. Usually 5 or so days later, they come in heat. Its been too long since I was in the feed business to remember. I would talk to the vet or person that will do the work. Wish I had my old contacts, I could give better information.

Okrafarmer

A cow's reproductive cycle is one of the few animals that is very similar to a woman's. Their gestation is 9 months, and their ovulation cycle is approximately monthly. Unlike many other types of animals, a cow can ovulate any month of the year, and does so regularly unless she is bred. She will ovulate and be fertile for a day or two each month, and when that happens, you will see "unusual" behavior between her and any other cattle she is with. Normally, when she is in heat, she will stand still while another cow (in the absence of a bull) will ride on her back, mimicking the action of a bull. Since there is no bull in the pasture, another female will play-act the role. The hormones do that to them, I guess. If a female is not in heat, she will not stand still if another animal tries to mount her.

You can have a breeding technician come out and breed your cows with artificial insemination. I do not know how much this will cost, but it will be a certain amount per cow, and a cost for the semen straw as well, since you can buy genetics from greater or lesser quality bulls, and the price difference can be great. The breeding technician may also charge a minimum fee for his/her services, which may apply since you only have two cows.

Make sure you have a good place to securely catch and restrain the cows so the tech will have a safe place to work on them.

If you don't know who to contact for a breeding tech, ask around of other farmers in your area, or ask your local agricultural extension agent.

AI breeding is a delicate and difficult skill to learn, so I would suggest paying to have it done unless you either already know how to do it, or plan on doing a lot of it in your lifetime. If you do plan on doing a lot of it, like hundreds of cows over the course of your life, then you should take a class to learn how. If just keeping a small number of cows, pay an expert to do it for you. Or arrange to expose your cows to a bull.  ;)
He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. Psalm 91:1

Operating a 2020 Woodmizer LT35 hydraulic for Upcountry Sawmill, Dacusville, SC

Now selling Logrite tools!

Writing fiction and nonfiction! Check my website.

Okrafarmer

Kansas, I remember the product you're talking about, but not what it's called. The process is referred to as synchronizing the cows. That is useful to some producers when they have a large herd and want them all to calve around the same date (the date of calving will still vary some, but will center hard on one day, or especially, one week). Lee could do that with his two, but it might not be easy to get treatment for just two. He'd have to ask his vet, nutritionist, or breeding technician. A trip to the extension agent is a good place to start, and/or asking others who raise cattle in the area.
He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. Psalm 91:1

Operating a 2020 Woodmizer LT35 hydraulic for Upcountry Sawmill, Dacusville, SC

Now selling Logrite tools!

Writing fiction and nonfiction! Check my website.

Kansas

I found it finally. MGA, or melengestrol acetate. The reason I suggested it is if you are going to have a vet doing it, and only two of them, one trip would be better to get the job done. We used to put it in various formulations, from protein pellets to prepared feed. It may also be in shot form. I think we carried it in stock in the late summer/fall. One bag of protein pellets should take care of 2 head. But obviously whoever your vet is needs to weigh in on this.

sandhills

Lee, maybe Kansas or Okra can fill you in but the product they're talking about is MGA, I have no idea what it stands for, just know why it's used as stated previously.  If you only have 2 cows I'd just watch them (I know it's hard to do when you're seldom there  ;)) but it's not hard to tell when they're in heat and I believe for AI'ing you want to breed them 2 days after first sign  ???  Someone correct me if I wrong I don't do any AI, but I bet Breederman would know.

sandhills


Kansas

LOL I really don't need to remember this stuff anymore, being I am out of the business, including having cattle. But it bugs me when I can't remember. I had to learn and know all this stuff, from feed, to vaccines, to various health products. And how to deal with the FDA, the state regulations and record keeping on drugs, how to formulate feed, the whole 9 yards. Can't even remember how to do a simple feed formula anymore with Pearsons square. Guess I don't need to remember anymore.

Okrafarmer

If I ever do cattle again, it will be grass and hay-based feed, natural-style. And it's gonna take more than wishful thinking to get me into it again.
He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. Psalm 91:1

Operating a 2020 Woodmizer LT35 hydraulic for Upcountry Sawmill, Dacusville, SC

Now selling Logrite tools!

Writing fiction and nonfiction! Check my website.

Piston

Well, I guess I may as well ask a question then as well.  ;D
I've always been interested in raising a beef cow for my myself and some family members.  I am really interested in the miniature cattle industry, and would someday like to get myself a mini cow  ;D

What are some requirements for fencing of these little buggers?  I say little, but I know they are still quite substantial.  Is it simple to contain them, or are they difficult like goats? 

How much pasture (assuming good quality) is needed for a single cow? 

Are cows like goats, where they are 'social' animals and you should always have more than one?  I'd hate for my mini cow to be depressed and lonely  :D :D
-Matt
"What the Lion is to the Cat the Mastiff is to the Dog, the noblest of the family; he stands alone, and all others sink before him. His courage does not exceed his temper and generosity, and in attachment he equals the kindest of his race."

Ianab

Electric fences are you friend for keeping cattle in. A single hot wire will keep most cows contained. They are 10X easier to keep in than goats.  :D

Cows are herd animals and do prefer company, especially if they are used to it. Split one cow out of a herd, and you will see it obvisouly fretting and trying to find it's buddies. But if they are hand reared, tame and not stressed they seem to live fine alone. Think of the "pet" house cow scenario.

Amount of land? Heck that depends totally where you live. Here we would be about an acre per cow, but that's in high quality pasture with an 11 month growing season. Other parts of the world you might need an acre to feed a goat...

Main problem you might find with rearing one beef steer or heifer, they get so dang tame they become pets. When I was on the farm we had some ex dairy cows rearing X-bred beef calfs. They got so tame they would walk up to you in the paddock for a head scratch.

Ian
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

Roxie

Cattle develop a routine, and you can use that to your advantage to AI them, or just check them out daily. 

We used grain to get them into the barn every evening, and the grain was in the gutter beyond the head gates.  We would lock the head gates whether we needed to or not, just to get them accustomed to the noise.  You can AI them once they are in the head gates, and it is also invaluable to give medication to an individual critter. 

To verify their cycle, you can get adhesive strips that you stick to their back, right above the tail.  The strips turn red when there has been activity on the cow, as Okrafarmer described. 

Acreage per cow is dependent on whether the grass is supplemented with hay and grain.  In my opinion, the best beef is grown when the cattle graze all day and are grain and hay fed in addition to that. 
Say when

Kansas

In all honesty, I would get two. Not saying if you have kids, they couldn't keep company. But if you have one on one side of the fence, and the neighbor has some, yours may well invite itself over to party with the others. There is another reason too. You get too attached to them, or kids or grandkids do, it makes it a lot tougher to send them to slaughter. Or to eat Bossie, if you know what I mean. I would stay away from the oddball breeds, unless its a hobby. Good angus or herford, maybe a cross with Charlois. But you really don't don't want a cow per se, unless you just want hamburger. You might be okay with a heifer that didn't breed, and is still young.

I just am not sold on grass fed beef. That being said, corn is technically a grass. If you got a couple of light calves in the fall or spring, hayed them in the winter with a touch of grain and protein/mineral supplement, let them graze in the summer, then  finished them off with a grain+supplement with a little hay for scratch, that should give you some good beef for your freezer. Either heifers or steers. You don't want bulls.

Here in Kansas, its figured about 6 or so acres for good native grass per cow calf pair. Calves might be a little less, with so much depending on your moisture situation. At least around here, the grass's protein level drops later in the summer. You can always supplement that. But I would finish with corn. I don't grill a steak very often, but when I do, I want to be able to cut it with a fork.

LeeB

Thanks everyone. A friend has a bull that he will let me put with them, so will probably go that route instead of AI. How long after birthing before they start into estrus again? One of the cows dropped us a little bull early this spring. Guess he will be able to take up duty in a couple of years.
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, JD 3032 tractor, JD 5410 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

thurlow

Quote from: LeeB on October 01, 2012, 09:06:53 AM
One of the cows dropped us a little bull early this spring. Guess he will be able to take up duty in a couple of years.

Inbreeding can eventually cause MAJOR problems..........
Here's to us and those like us; DanG few of us left!

thecfarm

Will take this off topic a little. We've had 7 goats here at The C Farm. I really miss the first 3 we had.We got rid of them, got 2 more,got rid of them and got 2 more. I had a slab fence for them and the only time they got out was when I would forgot to lock the door. The first 3 was great. They would follow behind us just like a dog. Two of them would kinda wonder away from us out back feeding on the grown up stuff. They would realize that they kinda lose sight of us and start to bellow. One of us would say,we are here and they would come running back to us like they had been lost for a long time. Than settle down and start to eat and get"lost" again. One would not leave my side,even if I was using the trimmer. But they was bottle fed too and handled alot. We kept on bottle feeding all 7 for a few weeks after we got them. One goat got sick on us when he was young. I had to give him his medicine through a bottle when he was not bottle feeding. I use to tell him drink or drown.   ;D  I saved his life,but if any hoof trimming or medicine was given to them I always had to do him first. He never liked me to work on him after that. I would have goats again,but would be REAL fussy on who I got them from. The key part,I feel,is they need to be bottled fed and handled alot when they are first born.
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sandhills

Piston, might I ask why a mini?  I have nothing against it at all just curious.  I think I may have said this somewhere on here before but the ongoing joke around our house is the fact that my wife loves bucking bulls and wants to try to raise some, well a neighbor started raising mini bucking bulls for kids rodeos so I told my wife, heck you have a mini horse you can ride and take your mini poodle out and round up little mini bucking bulls  :D.  Guess what, now she wants too (although I don't think the horse and poodle will factor in much).  All that being said, I hate bulls about as much as Magicman hates sweetgum, they just tear stuff up.

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