Yellow Poplar for Ties

[stavebuyer]

Have information that the RR's may soon be accepting YP for crossties. That would certainly change the market.

[moodnacreek]

Y.P [tulip] does get hard with age and it absorbs treatment well. I once read of north woods lines using cedar, that would have been white cedar and really soft. Must have been light cars.

[Ron Wenrich]

They must really need ties.

I remember one time asking the tie buyer if they took ailanthus for ties.  He couldn't find it on the list of species they wouldn't take, so we sent a few.  He came back a few weeks later with a revised list of species they wouldn't take.  :D

[Bullheaded]

White Cedar was used for siding ties. Guy Nordine cut cedar ties in the early 40's and the CHICAGO-MILWAUKEE-St PAUL & PACIFIC RAILROAD put in a 3 car siding just for his mill north of Sidnaw. The siding was named Spur 284 as it was 284 miles from Milwaukee. German war prisoners helped at the mill and were paid a wage and given a beer every day as a bonus. The guard and truck driver got a beer too! Jimmy Nordine (Guys son) said the mill had a 54" blade and was powered by a then new Detroit Diesel engine. Jimmy said his dad could tell what the mill was doing by the sound of the engine from several miles away in the woods. 

[moodnacreek]

They must really need ties.

I remember one time asking the tie buyer if they took ailanthus for ties.  He couldn't find it on the list of species they wouldn't take, so we sent a few.  He came back a few weeks later with a revised list of species they wouldn't take.  :D

I can't top this post.

[moodnacreek]

White Cedar was used for siding ties. Guy Nordine cut cedar ties in the early 40's and the CHICAGO-MILWAUKEE-St PAUL & PACIFIC RAILROAD put in a 3 car siding just for his mill north of Sidnaw. The siding was named Spur 284 as it was 284 miles from Milwaukee. German war prisoners helped at the mill and were paid a wage and given a beer every day as a bonus. The guard and truck driver got a beer too! Jimmy Nordine (Guys son) said the mill had a 54" blade and was powered by a then new Detroit Diesel engine. Jimmy said his dad could tell what the mill was doing by the sound of the engine from several miles away in the woods.

Or farther.

[kantuckid]

In my mind poplar as tie wood is soft enough to be dead on the job from weight forces involved alone? Maybe the RR's know more than little old me, which is probably true.  :D

Yes, it gets PT for other uses in my area, commonly seen in horse farm fencing as one e.g., but I've never seen a modern softwood tie?

I got curious and found the website for the Railway Tie association-look @ -> Home
On the specs pages it lists species, dimensions for various types etc.. Most US species are listed on the 1st page and the general idea is that each RR can say what they will use. They even have annual "tie conferences", who'd have thunk that one. :D

The main website has a bunch of historical and interesting "tie facts" for wood freaks.

I was also curious about POW's getting paid. It brought to mind my Mom's tales of the German POW's who kept the grounds for the large VA hospital in my hometown of Topeka, KS which she & I visited during WWII, (me not knowing I was there :D as I was a Bambi). She said they seemed real happy as she figured it was a safer place than where they'd came from.

It's covered (I cannot imagine it got enforced by our enemies) by the Geneva Convention from prior to WWII but I doubt was followed by the AXIS powers? Says an officer gets paid by the capturing country at their own countries rate. Enlisted I didn't see mentioned as to rate of pay.

Back to poplar ties. If true, the forests will be greatly affected here in KY as smaller trees get cut for ties and fewer seed trees remain behind?

[stavebuyer]

My source tells me that a respected forestry school laid the groundwork and that their research demonstrated yellow poplar to be superior in strength and treatment permeability to several species currently in use including gum and soft maple,

[Southside]

The quarterly "Forestry Use Tax" report that I have to complete still has a category for the number of SYP ties sawn and sold during that quarter.  Seems the form has not been updated for quite a long time, but back in the day someone bought pine ties too.  

[barbender]

As an aside, I've always found the Geneva Convention and other "rules of warfare" to be completely silly. Specify full metal jacket bullets instead of soft point to minimize injury, then blow men up with mortars, bombs, and missiles...if we can agree to all of these rules to conduct our murderous contest under, why can't we just have each country put forward their chess champion for a chess match to settle it?

[Southside]

Ummm BB, Did you drink or smoke your lunch?  :D

[barbender]

Nope, I've just never understood putting rules on how we kill each other😊

[barbender]

We had a lot of German POW's up here that were interred at former CCC camps, I'm told. Pretty common story was that they didn't want to go home.

[Percy]

As an aside, I've always found the Geneva Convention and other "rules of warfare" to be completely silly. Specify full metal jacket bullets instead of soft point to minimize injury, then blow men up with mortars, bombs, and missiles...if we can agree to all of these rules to conduct our murderous contest under, why can't we just have each country put forward their chess champion for a chess match to settle it?

Nope, I've just never understood putting rules on how we kill each other😊

We had a lot of German POW's up here that were interred at former CCC camps, I'm told. Pretty common story was that they didn't want to go home.

Dire Straits - Brothers In Arms - YouTube

[stavebuyer]

I believe pine ties are still used in some of the western rail lines. They also buy some 8' ties along with the 8'8"

[moodnacreek]

Some of those hard pines down south are hard and heavy compared to the northern pines. The wooden swath boards on IH mowers where yellow pine and many sawmills advertised their heart pine frames.

[Southside]

@barbender I missed the POW comments earlier, was on my phone, and when I read yours I was thinking either it was posted on the wrong thread - or well - lunch was interesting   :D  I just could not see how RR ties equated to the rules of engagement so I went back and there was the connection.  :D  

[barbender]

I was wondering if you missed that, but I tend to leave folks wondering what I've been smoking on occasion anyhow😂😂 Seeing your battery post, I understand you missing some details😊