Transmission woes on 230D Timberjack

[Caseybow123]

To all Timberjack experts out there- Why would my T.J stop moving along with no winch? It made no noise or gave no warning of an issue before hand. Just started to turn and it just quit moving. No driveshafts turn in any gear , forward or reverse or in either high or low selection. I haven't yet taken off the top of the transmission housing to inspect gears although I am wondering about failed trans output shaft shaft?? Can the transmission be pulled without engine removal? What are you guys thinking.

[Hans2017]

Not an expert but my first thought is shifting fork or possibly clutch. Does it feel like it is going gear. Hope for a simple fix.

[C5C Tree Farmer]

I suspect the spring dampening hub on the clutch disc tore loose. This happened to me a couple of times on my C5 Tree Farmer. I had a custom built disc made for mine that had a solid center which cured the problem.

[bushmechanic]

I agree with C5C, the center tore out of your clutch disc. Pull both boxes out, don't seperate them. when you put it back make sure the two throw out bearing clips are there and the grease nipple on the throw out bearing points down.  

[Caseybow123]

Thanks for the input. Sounds logical that it could be the clutch disk. Can you separate the the transmission and engine enough to fix, or just pull the engine?

[OntarioAl]

A quick Tutorial
1/ Disconnect and remove the following
Driveline, clutch linkage, main gear shift and reverser levers Battery ground if somebody has attached it to the transmission (find a better location)
2/ Estimate the balance point and attach a short chain across the top of the transmission (use the cap screws holding down the transmission cap)
3/ Attach a small come along to the roof of the canopy (I have a 3/4 ton  that hooks into the drip flange conveniently centered over the lifting chain)
Take up slack but don't  preload
4/ the fun part
the clutch housing is attached to the engine by a bolt circle hopefully the bottom 2 are NOT being used if they are there its slows down the removal they are not needed so don't replace them.
A little prying and wiggling should free the trans mission 
Use the come along to assist
Just reverse process to reinstall
Hope this helps
Cheers
Al


 
  

[Caseybow123]

Thanks for the sequence Al. Sounds like you have done this before.

[B.C.C. Lapp]

Must be something in the air.    My TJ 225D transmission locked up yesterday.  Pulled the shifter cover thinking I broke a fork or something. Nope, a quick inspection, along with a face full of gear lube, showed some chewed gears and some real damage.   I did get it into second and limped it down to the landing.  Back to the garage we go.    This last three months has been the worst weather and luck I've had in decades of logging.  

[Caseybow123]

Would any Timberjack enthusiasts happen to have a parts book to give me numbers for a new pressure plate, clutch disc and throw out bearing? Would be much appreciated. 

[B.C.C. Lapp]

Caseybow I'll PM you about those numbers.    

Got mine loaded and headed for the garage yesterday morning.    Like Casey I'm going to do the clutch and everything while its tore apart.    May as well.   


 

[tacks Y]

B.C.C.  Do you deal with Slim or do your own work?

[C5C Tree Farmer]

Would any Timberjack enthusiasts happen to have a parts book to give me numbers for a new pressure plate, clutch disc and throw out bearing? Would be much appreciated.

Don't forget the pilot bearing. They get a lot of use in a skidder application.

[B.C.C. Lapp]

B.C.C.  Do you deal with Slim or do your own work?

I get my parts from Slim.     In fact I wont be surprised if he has everything I need down to the seals right on the shelves. But I dont get any work done there  I do most of my own repairs but for big jobs like this   I do some of the work and another guy that is a real good mechanic and fabricator does some and we use his garage.     Costs me a little more but I gain that back in time.   He has done so many skidder transmission and clutches he knows them inside out and backward.    
Personally I hope to never get that good because I'd rather be logging than turning wrenches.

By the way tacks i'm working up in your area, just about 4 miles out of Tidioute.

[tacks Y]

Yes, You are close. I am in Starbrick, just west of Warren.

[Stephen Alford]

   Add a pilot  shaft to the list of stuff you will need for the install .  They can be hard to find or borrow at least here that's the case . I like a steel one but the plastic ones will work . The last plastic one I used was a tad loose so had to put a wrap of electric tape on the end to make it snug. 

[B.C.C. Lapp]

This is the result of shifting from third to second on a hill side. Skidder rolled a bit when I shifted and I figure I grabbed two gears at once.   Gotta be at a complete stop especially on a hillside. I'd have been smarter to stay in second coming down the hill and just go to high range.  Then I could just have gone low range at the turn around.   Ah well, aint nobody perfect.   Been a rough couple of weeks around here.



 

[Peter Drouin]

Are you going to replace all of them?  Some look a little thin.

[nativewolf]

@B.C.C Lapp could not hit the like nor that picture but I  sympathize .  Hope you get it sorted and some dry weather! 

[B.C.C. Lapp]

Thinking on it Pete.   But it really dont look to bad. We'l when its all torn down.    Looks to us like someone had this transmission out not to long ago.   I only bought this 225 about 4 months ago.

[C5C Tree Farmer]

Looks like 435/445 New Process gear box so not a complicated fix.  The 435 had a one piece countershaft while the individual gears on a 445 countershaft could be replaced. I still have an extra 435 box salted away for the Tree Farmer.
That's an odd failure for a New Process box...Usually it's the shifting cogs and collar for 2nd gear or the pocket bearing rollers fail.

[OntarioAl]

B.C.C. Lapp
I keep coming back to your photo of the damage
Looks to me something got sucked up and went between the gears.
You say it looks like its been worked on
Maybe some shrapnel (left over from a previous job) siting in sump moved when on the sidehill and got sucked into the gears
You will know better when you tear the transmission apart
Also check for signs of cracking where the shaft goes through the transmission case
Magnetic plugs are cheap insurance the shrapnel tends to latch on to them
Cheers
Al

[Caseybow123]

Just wanted to provide an update on repairs. Replaced clutch disc, throw bearing,  clips, pilot bearing etc. Discovered it is a hard job to do this job yourself,  but can be done. T.J 230 up and working great again. The extra money spent on clutch disc($360.00 Canadian) for a heavy-duty disc is going to save money in the long run. The clutch disc in mine that broke apart was a very thin, lightweight disc that was probably used in Dodge and Ford trucks that these transmissions will bolt up to. 
Thanks to everyone for their input and guidance. 👍👍

[Peter Drouin]

 

[Caseybow123]

Pretty happy to have that done. Now if I can figure out the air brake issue on my Michigan loader I posted earlier I will be back into money making not spending mode. Another big shout out to Ontario Al for his help. Experience is the best tool of all.


 

[Mountain_d]

I agree with C5C, the center tore out of your clutch disc. Pull both boxes out, don't seperate them. when you put it back make sure the two throw out bearing clips are there and the grease nipple on the throw out bearing points down.  

Does that throw out bearing usually have a remote line to grease it? I have 2 remote lines going to my clutch area but it looks like they are greasing the pivot point on the side of the bell housing when the clutch is pressed. Maybe I have not been greasing my throw out bearing? 
Mountain

[Caseybow123]

One of the lines will be throwout bearing, the other is most likely for the yoke itself. There was on mine when I put it back together.

[Mountain_d]

Ok. Thanks.