Woodland Mills HM126 vs HM122

[arky217]

Ok, I was nearly ready to pull the trigger on the Woodland Mills HM122
when I thought that I would compare it item by item with the HM126 and the HM130MAX.

The base price of the HM122 with the largest engine (9.5hp) is $2499.
The base price of the HM126 with the largest engine (14hp Kohler) is $3299.

So, what would I get besides a 50% increase in engine power for the
additional $800 ?

Well, it seems that it would be quite a bit:

* 14hp Kohler engine vs 9.5hp Kohler.
* 4" larger log capacity.
* 4" wider board capacity.
* A somewhat heavier duty carriage frame and rails.
* A cam type log dog instead of the screw type.
* An adjustable arm on one of the blade guides.
* 7" max cut depth vs 6" on the 122.
* Auto locking sawhead at chest height vs non-auto locking crank head high.

So, the question is: Would the above features be worth the additional $800 ?
Seems to me like it probably would be; what do you say ?


I also compared the HM126 to the HM130MAX which has a base price of $4299.
But for that increase of $1000 over the HM126, the only thing about the
HM130MAX that would be of benefit to me over the HM126 is the electric start.
And as much as I would like to have electric start (at my age of 75), I can't
see paying $1000 for it.

I also called the technical dept. of Kohler and asked if a 14hp could be
retrofitted for electrical start. They said yes, it actually could be,
but when all the parts necessary to do that (starter, flywheel, stator, wiring, etc.)
were added up, it came to nearly $1000.

So, I reckon that I'll live with the pull start Kohler on the HM126.

To those of you that have a 14hp pull start Kohler, do you find
that it is fairly easy to start ?

Edit: The only blades that Woodland Mills sells are a pack of 10 for $225.
They say that they are 7/8" pitch, 10 degree angle.
Would these be what I would need for yellow pine and cedar but also
some white oak. Or should I get blades from another source and
should they be a different pitch and/or angle ?
What about bi-metal blades if you know that there will be no metal in the logs.
Would they be a better choice ? How much longer would they last ?

[Kwill]

If it's in your budget go with the hm126 over the 122. The bigger engine would be worth it. 

[RAYAR]

Go with the HM126, much more rugged and you will be much happier with it. For the blades, check the Kasco WoodMaxx 7 degree, I believe minimum order is 15 blades, but they are awesome. (one of the sponsors in the column on the left of your screen) The 7 degree will perform better in the hardwood.

[btulloh]

My opinion is that it is well worth the extra bucks to go to the hm126 if it's in the budget. 

Personally I would order Kasko 7 degr blades. They are a good value and perform well for me. Better than the Lennox 10's you'd get with the saw. Just my experience. 

I have no experience with bi-metal on this saw. Not sure they'd really help with metal strikes. I do like bi-metal on some of my vertical bandsaw applications but never tried them onthe saw mill. 

[Gere Flewelling]

You would never regret purchasing more horse power.  Spending $1000 for electric start is certainly a better investment than spending $$ on elbow or shoulder repair.  The investment will go a long way towards making sawdust an enjoyable adventure.  Just the opinion of an old guy who is speaking from experience.  I wish you luck with what ever you decide.

[SawyerTed]

It was my wife that convinced me to consider more mill than I started out looking at.  She wanted me to keep my enthusiasm for sawmilling (within reason) so she suggested that i consider higher hp and hydraulics.

Now I understand you are looking at a manual mill, but electric start will go along way to keeping your enthusiasm for sawing logs into lumber.  If you dread trying to pull start the motor multiple times in a sawing session, that will hurt your enthusiasm.  

Given the right circumstances, a few sales of lumber off the mill would pay for the difference in pull start and electric start.  

[bags]

Most Kohler engines like to be choked when they are started. The 14hp on my 130 starts first pull every time when choked.

[btulloh]

It's impossible for me to speak for someone else's shoulder, but I'd have a hard time spending an extra 1k on electric start on a $4k mill.  The Kohler has been easy to start but yes, it does like choke even a warm restart. 

Turning logs gives me a lot more of a workout by far. I'd save that money and spend it on fabbing up a log turner (like in the current LT15 thread). That's gonna help the shoulder a lot more. With the engine up where it is, you can use your body more than your shoulder to pull the engine over. Who knows though, my shoulder might have a different opinion next year!  Itmay even demand full hydraulics!

Since the question is important to the OP it would be really helpful if he could visit someone with that engine. 

[Patrick NC]

I have a 14hp Kohler on my mill and it starts pretty easy. Dosen't seem to pull any harder than the 9hp Kohler that's on my wood splitter.  Starts on the first pull with choke on when cold. After its warmed up, no choke and 1 pull . Hope this helps. 

[mtoo747]

Yes arky217, in my opinion the HM126 is worth the extra $800 over the HM122. I also bought the HM126 with the 14 HP Kohler and am very pleased with it. I just wish that it had some of the newer features that the current model has. I'm 70 and find the Kohler easy to start as long as you choke it and give it a little throttle. As others have mentioned i would skip the Lennox 10 degree blades and get some Kasco 7's. I've used both and the Kasco works best for me in pine and cedar. I have just gotten some Kasco 4 degree blades for hardwood but haven't had a chance to try them but i'm sure they will meet my expectations!
Good luck with your new mill, you will love it.
mike

[MerlinMike]

I went with the HM126 - 14 hp last year and am very, very pleased. Great tool. I just make boards for myself from logs on my lot.  About 7500 bf so far.  I went with the 14 hp after doing a lot of reading here on the board about hp is king.  At 67, the pull is a bit tough if it does not start in the first few pulls, I am only at 1100 ft elevation.  I replaced the motor with an electric start 13 hp, 420 cc from harbor freight.  I caught it on sale for $300 bucks, got a maintenance free 12 volt battery for another $70.  Very pleased.  Added a battery tray and it was very easy to install.  Base plate bolt pattern was a match, shaft dia, length and height was a match.  Clutch was tough to get off of the Kohler, like many have said here but a three prong puller helped.  

Just my 2 cents...

 

[arky217]

I don't mean to keep prolonging this thread, but I'm still on the fence
about paying an extra $1000 to get electric start on the 14hp Kohler.

For those of you who have the HM126 with the 14hp Kohler,
is it any harder to pull than say a typical 3.5hp Briggs&Stratton
lawnmower that doesn't have a compression release ?

I have a Stihl MS390 (55cc) chainsaw and I must say, it is quite a
bit harder for me to start than it was 10 years ago. Of course, it is
a 2 cycle and does not have a compression release button.

I also had a 95cc Husky for a chain saw mill and it was quite a bit
easier to pull than the Stihl as long as I pushed in the de-compression
button; without pushing in the button, it was near impossible for me to pull.

If the Kohler is no harder to pull than the typical 3.5hp or 5hp lawn mower,
then I don't see a problem not getting electric start; but if it is quite a
bit harder than the typical small lawn mower, then I'll know that I will
regret not forking over the extra $1000.

More opinions from HM126 owners please,
thank all of you who replied so far.

[dogbo2013]

Arky217 I understand your dilemma because I went through the same thought process 2 years ago. At the time Woodland Mills did not offer electric start or the 130 max. I considered price, productivity, easy of use, and resale value (more upgrades and greater capabilities appeal to a broader audience and therefore sale faster if an when you decide to sale it.) I finally decided to purchase the HM130 with a pull start, extended bed, and trailer and I have not regretted the purchase yet. It is a well built and easy to use. I would prefer electric start but is not hard to pull start. These mills are no frills and already require quite a bit of manual labor. Upgrades just make your life easier. Also, more HP speeds up productivity. Even as a hobbyist, you will want to be as productive as possible. More HP gives you faster cuts and less time in each log. In my opinion, you will regret saving money up front. My advice would be to buy as much mill length, HP, and convenience upgrades that you can afford.

[dogbo2013]

I forgot to mention blades. I would also skip the lennox blades. They dont last long and every blade change requires way too much tracking adjustment which will wast 10-15 of your time! I have tried Lennox, Timbery, Simonds, Ripper, and Kasco blades. None of them compare to Kasco Woodmaxx blades. Now I only buy KASCO blades. I have only used 4 degree blades from Kasco but they have cut everything well (oak, cherry, pine, pecan, cedar) so I haven't tried the 7's. The Kasco blades last longer, cut straighter, and do not require any tracking adjustment when changing blades. They are a quality blade that cost the same or less than others. I get 15 blades delivered for less than $300. Give Richard a call at Cutting Edge Saw Service to order (304) 878-3343

[Magicman]

I don't mean to keep prolonging this thread, but I'm still on the fence about paying an extra $1000 to get electric start on the 14hp Kohler.

I have no experience with Woodland Mills nor Kohler, but I do have experience with being 75.  This year I replaced my Stihl MS310 (59cc) saw with an MS362 (59cc) because it did not have a compression release and my hands were having difficulty pulling the starter rope.  My arm was strong enough, but not my hand/fingers.  I am now @ 76 and recovering from shoulder rotator cuff surgery.  A bone spur cut the rotator cuff, not something that I did nor did wrong.  You/we are pushing each day to continue to be active and prove to ourselves anyway that we ain't done yet.  You may be OK today pulling the rope but what about a couple of years from now?  There is lotsa difference between a 3.5hp B&S and a 14hp Kohler.

[K-Guy]

If you want the electric start, see if you can find one on a dead motor and add it to yours. I wouldn't count on finding one though, check first.

[hedgerow]

arky217
I can't speak for the mill as I don't own one. But after two shoulder surgery's on the same shoulder in two years I have been in the process of making every small engine on the farm electric start. 
Two chains got sold that didn't have decompress. I have used the HF motors in the past with good luck. Several pieces of equipment got the HF motors with electric start and some like my gas powered air compressor a buddy wanted the one I had and I found a low hour one for a good price with electric start so I changed compressors on my service trailer. If you can afford the upgrade I would go with it from the factory if you can't you can do like MerlinMike did and just add the HF 13 motor with electric start for less money. I installed several of those 13 Hp motors on varies pieces of equipment. So far they all seem fine.  

[arky217]

I have been considering purchasing a sawmill from Woodland Mills.
I am considering either the HM122 or the HM126.

A question just came to mind and I have not been able to contact
Woodland Mills yet to ask them (I guess they're already closed today),
so I thought someone on the forum would know the answer.
(It may be a silly question, but it has got me curious)

As best as I can tell by the pictures on the Woodland Mills site
(and maybe this is true with all band mills, I don't know since I have yet
to see a band mill in person),
it looks like the belt from the clutch rides in the drive wheel groove
and that the blade rides on top of that belt.

Well, the HM122 has 16" dia. wheels and the HM126 has 19" dia. wheels.
So, if the blade does ride on top of the belt on the drive wheel,
wouldn't that make the blade speed faster on the smaller 16" dia. wheels ?

Or, is the governor on the engine set at a different max speed for
different size wheels ? If not, (assuming the motors have the same hp) wouldn't
that give an advantage to the smaller wheels by giving a faster blade speed.

Surely, I must be overlooking something, but it's just a question that came
mind when considering these two mills.

[btulloh]

Are the drive pulleys (clutch) the same size on both mills?

[Hilltop366]

If both the 16" and 19" wheels are spinning at the same RPM the larger one would have the faster blade speed FPM (feet per minute).

The larger wheel will have a larger circumference therefore a higher FPM.

The desired blade speed will be obtained by engine pulley size, the governed engine speed will remain the same to get the rated horse power.

[dgdrls]

Well,.. by observation using the photos posted on their website,
it looks like they use a different size drive pulley,

If you can, go with the bigger wheels, its easier on the blades,

D

[Ljohnsaw]

When you really think about it (with the drive belt also being the band belt), it is ONLY the size of the pulley on the engine clutch that matters.  Most engines have their sweet spot of torque at a certain RPM.  When you are looking at 7.5 up to 16 or so, pretty much the same rpm for the max torque.  Since that pulley determines the FPM belt speed, that is also the blade speed. 

So, it doesn't make any difference what the wheel diameter is.  What you will see is a larger wheel will have a slower RPM than a smaller wheel.  But, since it is a larger diameter, the FPM will be higher than a small wheel with the same RPM.  But a smaller wheel driven by the same engine will have a higher RPM - enough that it will have the same FPM.

However, a larger wheel is easier on the blade (less bending).

[Hilltop366]

When you really think about it (with the drive belt also being the band belt), it is ONLY the size of the pulley on the engine clutch that matters.

That is true, when using the driven pulley as the band wheel changing the band wheel size also changes the driven wheel size.