Writing a book on sawmilling

[crtreedude]

Regarding my wife and Grits - her family has been in the North for 350 years - I thought I was safe!

The secrets that are held back before marriage...  :

[farmerdoug]

CR,  Everyone has their problems.  :
Farmerdoug

[WH_Conley]

CR, would that be grounds for a deevorce? ;D

[crtreedude]

And bearing with the situation would require true grit...

[Larry]

is it just me or anyone alse feel weird not working?

iain

Only normal people have holidays...people with sawmills never get holidays. 

Rained all day Saturday so nobody wanted to pick up there weekly fix of firewood.  They started showing up at 8am.   Little later the local woodworkers and loafers started showing up to tell about their Christmas presents. ;)  Finally got a sawmill customer.  He wanted me to saw honey locust....out of his black locust logs. :D

Had plans to make a couple of Bibby sawhorses...got em mostly done even with all the interruptions.  One don't quite set level. ;D ;D

[Fla._Deadheader]

Maybe it's one a dem ''All Terrain'' Horses, Larry  : :D :D

[Brucer]

I got real excited when I saw this post -- until I found out that Cedarman wasn't actually writing the book :(.

I wasn't on-line on Christmas day, but I thought a lot about the idea. It appears a lot of other people had similar ideas. I set out to write a technical/text book when I "retired" 8 years ago but I didn't get very far. I just kept uncovering new material to research so instead of moving toward my goal, I kept pushing the goal further away. On-line collaborations can be tricky, but it could very well work with this group.

Some thoughts on the content ...

• Keep the focus on subjects immediately related to sawmilling.
• For stuff that's indirectly related (e.g., tree-cutting, kilns) provide a real quick overview -- just enough to let the person know they really need to learn more. Add a reference section to steer readers to the best books on specific subjects.
• A little dry humour works fine in a text book. Silly humour doesn't.
• Sorry, food doesn't belong in a book on sawmilling (it makes the pages stick together ). A Forestry Forum cookbook, on the other hand, is a great idea.

Making the collarboration work ...

• For something on this scale you need to start with an outline. That's the key to co-ordinating it.
• Figure out what chapters you'll want. Get everybody's input. Try different ways of organizing it. Revise it, again and again, until it looks like it will work.
• Outline the content of each chapter. Get everybody's input again. You'll probably end up going back and re-arranging the main outline. That's the way the process works best.
• As the project starts to take form, there should be an editor-in-chief to ensure consistent style and to bring the whole thing together. Kind of a benevolent dictator.
• Each chapter has a volunteer editor, otherwise the task becomes too much for one person.
• Editors can -- and should -- call on other members for expert advise, research, etc.
• The whole process is open and visible to members (but not the public).

Legal and publishing issues ...

• Copyright applies to arrangements of words, not ideas. Copyright automatically exists when the work is created. The only people who can claim copyright are the ones who do the actual writing.
• With so many contributers, how do you distribute any income fairly? I suggest avoiding the whole issue. Have all contributing writers agree to assign copyright to The Forestry Forum. All income from sales goes to support the forum. Individual authors retain the right to publish their own contributions independently as well.
• Final version is available on-line, to members only.
• Hardcopy book is the main form of distribution.
• Do we use English English or American English (colour, color)? Metric measure, foot-pound measure, or both?

I have a book, "Moving the Earth", that is practially a model of what we're talking about here. The introduction includes the following paragraph: "Moving the Earth has been written primarily to fill the nees of those closest to the atual earth moving: the small contractor, the foreman, and the operator." When I bought the book in 1978, it was in it's 3rd edition and had been through 21 printings. It has 1760 pages, 1800 illustrations, and 3200 drawings. Of course, this is much, much bigger than the first edition.

I think it would be possible to do this within the existing framework of the Forestry Forum. Personally, I'd prefer to see it in the Members Only section, if only to ensure that the potential market doesn't help themselves as the work evolves.

So, watcha think? Is it going to happen?

[etat]

I may get killed for saying this but i actually knew of another place where a group of people were going to write a book. One central author and editor to take the writings and put it all together.   It started out as a real good idea right up until it came time for some of them (i was NOT involved until near the end but I watched the proceedings closely) found out they would have to, do as you said, sign away copyright.  Now, it was a whole different kind of people in a whole different kind of deal.   Before it was over I saw friends become enemy's and there was a ton of arguing over who owned what copyrights, and how the funds would be distributed.  In the end it all broke up.  I just dont see those problems happening here thank goodness.

I'm not trying to discourage anything and i would love to see a book.  I'm just reporting what I saw happen one time.   

[crtreedude]

How about a consolidation of the best tips from the forestry forum? It can be a mix of great insights into sawing, etc - and perhaps how to avoid grits...

This way it can be built quickly, continually grow (each year, a new volume) and be a nice volume of practical hints.

Regarding legal messes - START with the legal agreement, don't do it as an after thought. When there is no money yet, people act sane, but once they believe something might be available, it can change people.

[Don_Papenburg]

Yep money makes people act funny.      I don't have a lot of it and that is fine with me exept when the realestate tax comes due. them fools think that my income goes up each year and that the property also increases in value.  So if anything I say is inspireing you are all welcome to it and if it will help the forum  and make a book posable , grabit and go.

[Dan_Shade]

I tend to agree with what Brucer has stated, and cktate as well.

What do you say, Jeff, want to try to get the ball rolling?

[farmerdoug]

I think maybe it should be permission only to add to the book.  To get prmission you need to agree to the copyright terms up front so there is no arguments later.  Kinda like the terms you have to accept to use a new program you just installed.

Different editors for each chapter would be a great idea too.  That way it will not overload one or two people.

Farmerdoug

[Bibbyman]

How about a consolidation of the best tips from the forestry forum? It can be a mix of great insights into sawing, etc - and perhaps how to avoid GrItz...

This way it can be built quickly, continually grow (each year, a new volume) and be a nice volume of practical hints.

Regarding legal messes - START with the legal agreement, don't do it as an after thought. When there is no money yet, people act sane, but once they believe something might be available, it can change people.

Some of us have tried to work at collecting stuff and putting it in the Knowledge base.  But I don't think there is but a few that even know it exists.

[Dale Hatfield]

This is a great idea . It has been done on a carving forum that i go to. The book was published from posts that about 120 carvers made  about a  whole range of things.  It is for sale at Baileys and a lot of other places on the net. It was done kinda on the side without a lot of people knowing. Then they were asked if they wanted their posts in the book or not. Made some mad others happy. Each carver that was in the book was listed in the index . Honestly I bought the book just to see. but never read it or go to it for anything.
Dale

[SwampDonkey]

Seems to me if I was a green horn with a new mill, a sawmilling book from experienced folks from this forum would have me reading every page. These folks would make it a down to earth experience. Whereas others would make things complicated. I've also bounced some thoughts around a couple of times about preparing a booklets for woodlot owners. Something that would take the mystery out of forestry. You can't even go to a local library here for anything on woodlot forestry. When you go to the city library it's usually textbooks written for another part of the world. I remember when I took mensuration in University, the professor took something simple and tried to make rocket science out of it. And when I took a tree physiology course, the professor took something that can be very confusing and technical and made it easy to understand.

Taking the Mystery Out of Forestry   ;)

[UNCLEBUCK]

I will gladly give all my high-tech tips away like :

1) 12$ drywall stilts

2) DanG Solar Heater

3) Harolds "How to not go Boom" gas barrel welding course

And on and on , priceless factual information 

[Brucer]

...  Before it was over I saw friends become enemy's and there was a ton of arguing over who owned what copyrights, and how the funds would be distributed.  In the end it all broke up.  I just dont see those problems happening here thank goodness.

I'm not trying to discourage anything and i would love to see a book.  I'm just reporting what I saw happen one time.   

It's a good point to bring up, and that's why I mentioned the copyright issue right up front. If you don't get those things settled at the beginning, it only takes one person to sabotage the whole effort.

Another thing to think about right off the bat is the editing. I've worked with editors before, and it can be downright painful when they want to hack out huge portions of your precious writing. Even editing my own stuff, I sometimes get into a fight with myself about cutting parts or rewording them. Fortunately it's never come down to physical violence  .

People who want to contribute will have to have thick skins. Editing will make or break a book.

[etat]

It's a good point to bring up, and that's why I mentioned the copyright issue right up front. If you don't get those things settled at the beginning, it only takes one person to sabotage the whole effort.

You're right.  Even then there are things to be aware of.

This is a portion of the letter that most of the members wound up sending to the author editor at the other site. 

Do to rule changes after I joined which I feel would severly limit my freedom and creativity in writing and my ability to make friends there, or adding to a  storyline..........and also considering
the fact that I also have written nothing on the _________ site that could be of interest, or publishable. , I hereby withdraw my permissions to any releases, and do not give you permission to
publish anything that I may have written on the ___________ site, or anywhere else.  I am no longer interested in being an ________, or participitating with anything concerning ________.........or
________.com.........

Please don't mistake or think I'm trying to make trouble here.  It's just that there's a lots of facts to consider and yes, a lot of details to be worked out. 

[crtreedude]

Charles,

I suspect the best approach will be to have those who have something to contribute decide that they would like to - and give permission to use whatever they post. If a person doesn't want to - then their stuff is off limits for the book - plan and simple.

Reasonable compensation might be a section of the book for information how to reach some of the authors for business. Just like here, we post, and we have our websites as part of the compensation - as well as the way for people to reach us.

As long as it is all thrashed out in the beginning - it tends to be okay, but if the rules change in mid-stream, people tend to get upset.

[etat]

I can positively tell you this.  if there was anything I could be smart enough to contribute here, for a book or otherwise, I'd be GLAD to donate it, if for nothing else just to be able to say i saw my name in print.  I think that that in itself would be great!   

[crtreedude]

Same here cktate - of course the likelyhood of me writing anything about sawing worth reading is fairly slim...

I am primarily here as entertainment... and to learn from the rest of you. 

Of course my opinions about grits should be taken as the Gospel truth!  ;D

[iain]

  "Of course my opinions about GrItz should be taken as the Gospel truth!  "



Me thinks this view is more than enough to get you access into the forum LEGENDS board



iain

[Mr Mom]

     I think you guys should do a book throught the forum and have the money go to the fourm.







Mr Mom

[isawlogs]

 I also think that any money that could come of this should go back to the forum ... And for myself if there is anything that I can or could bring to it  , I will and would give all copiewrites to Jeff .. or what ever he goes by today  ;D

[crtreedude]

You know Jeff - that is an issue. If you are going to have a copyright on something, you are going to have to stop changing your name all the time... No one will know who to give credit to.  :