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Author Topic: Mag Drills and Weldon bits  (Read 824 times)

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Offline ljohnsaw

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Mag Drills and Weldon bits
« on: May 02, 2022, 06:56:20 PM »
So I need to drill some hole for 1" pins for hydraulic ram mounts.  I'll be going through some 1.25" or 1.5" plate/bar.  They sell both 1" and 2" length bits.  So I'm guessing I need the 2" even if the "chuck" can fit in the hole a little ways.

They sell HSS and various carbide hybrid bits.  I'm thinking the HSS set would be the way to go and replace them individually with carbide as the need arises, correct?  But the sets are strange.  The cutting diameters in one set are 1/2", 9/16", 11/16", 13/16", 15/16" & 1-1/16".  I think its because they are metric, but maybe I'm wrong?  If I'm hoping to use a 1" pin currently on the ram clevis, should the hole be oversized at 1-1/16"?  That seems a little sloppy.

I could go with a cheap drill around $250-$400 (BlueRock) but they have a short depth range (around 2").  Or I could go all out (in the cheap range) and get a DeWalt DWE1622K that has a 4-3/8" travel for $820.  It has an automatic oiling system that oils from inside the bit.  Not about to spend $4k on the top of the line unit! ::)

I did a couple little handyman jobs so I got the cash for the DeWalt (I like DeWalt and the reviews are real good) and some bits - just need the feedback on the size(s).  I checked all the local pawn shops - nothing available.  Also nothing on CraigsList within 100 miles worth going after (one wore out, beat to death for a high price).
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/32" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

Offline moodnacreek

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Re: Mag Drills and Weldon bits
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2022, 07:24:48 PM »
Mag drills work great if you have the surface to grab, but I almost never do. Now don't laugh, this is how I have drilled many holes up to 1" with a drill bit in steel. I have my grandfathers Black and decker drill stand that you clamp a 1/2" drill in. Also have a very heavy duty [B&D also] slow speed drill for it. I use it on the floor or clamped to the steel. One hand on the long handle and a squirt oil can in the other. Done a lot of hole sawing with this poor man's drill also.

Offline ljohnsaw

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Re: Mag Drills and Weldon bits
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2022, 07:28:12 PM »
I forgot to tag @21incher , I figure he's had some experience with these.  Along with @Crusarius and @Cornerstone 
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/32" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

Offline Tom King

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Re: Mag Drills and Weldon bits
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2022, 07:28:44 PM »
HSS will last fine in a magnetic drill press.  I bought the big Milwaukee off ebay for half price, for a tractor repair job, thinking I would sell it when I finished that job, but I liked it so much I kept it.

I'm glad I ended up with that one.  It's a Beast, but will do fine work.

I used it recently to put a marine lifting ring on the front of a mower, so I could lift it easily to change the blades.  It had to go through 3 layers of 1/4" steel, and there were some pretty sensitive steering parts not far beneath the steel.  It made it an easy job.  I wouldn't have attempted that job with a hand held drill.

I pick the 1700 lb. mower up, and set it on the big flat tail end, but the picture was the only one I took of lifting it.

It's a great tool to have, and will make your job an easy one.

On the tractor, that's a 3/4" plate I bolted to good loader mount holes.  I had to drill and tap some screwed up ones.  It made that an easy job too.



 

 

 

 

 

Offline Woodside Kai

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Re: Mag Drills and Weldon bits
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2022, 07:52:01 PM »
You can find the bits in 1". The other sizes are more common for clearance when assembling with 1" bolts. You will need the 2" long for your job. I'd only buy the bits you need instead of a set. Hss are fine and if you have a good eye you can re sharpen them. 

Offline Crusarius

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Re: Mag Drills and Weldon bits
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2022, 08:04:43 PM »
The only experience I have with a mag drill is the annular cutters. I scored a set that had the same odd sizes you speak of but I was able to put them in a 3/4" collet in my mill. After the first couple holes through some 3/8 and 1/2" mild steel plate I said I would never drill again.

I need to get more sizes :)


Offline ljohnsaw

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Re: Mag Drills and Weldon bits
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2022, 08:07:35 PM »
You can find the bits in 1". The other sizes are more common for clearance when assembling with 1" bolts.  I'd only buy the bits you need instead of a set.
Ahh, that makes sense.  As far as sets go, one bit is $25-$30.  A big set with 11 bits (7/16",1/2",9/16",11/16",5/8",3/4",13/16",7/8",15/16",1" & 1-1/16") is $185.  I figure if I've got the bits in "standard" sizes, I'll find a use on other projects.  I've already suffered drilling too many 1/2" holes and filing it out to 9/16" or 5/8". :-\  I just happen to pick up a 1" depth/2" diameter bit for $2 in a bargain bin last year.  Now that I know what they are used for (and I have the tool!), I'll look for more.

Any particular brand to look for, or look out for?
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/32" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

Offline Cornerstone

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Re: Mag Drills and Weldon bits
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2022, 08:54:19 PM »
Just another reason why HSS annular cutters are so fast is because they don't have as much material to remove as a standard drill bit. They only cut out about 1/8" of any size hole, then the center plug falls out. I've also noticed the mag drills don't spin as fast as my Dewalt drill guns or my drill press. I believe they cut more efficiently at the slower speeds.  
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Re: Mag Drills and Weldon bits
« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2022, 09:02:48 PM »
I pick the 1700 lb. mower up, and set it on the big flat tail end
This is an excellent idea! I presume you do this for taking blades off or any other kind of work that needs to be done under the mower deck? It's literally a giant pain in the neck, the day after I do that job laying on my side with the front end on jack stands. Any other things to be concerned with when you do that? This makes me want to go and sharpen my blades on my gravely 260z now!
Case 580SK backhoe, New Holland L228 skid steer, Kubota 900rtv, Home made band mill in the works, 1968 Chevy C50 Dump Truck, 1972 C10, 2000 Silverado 1500HD, all sorts of motorcycles.
Ephesians 3: 17-21

Offline Tom King

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Re: Mag Drills and Weldon bits
« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2022, 09:51:17 PM »
Yes.  I like sharp blades, but won't get under a mower, so might as well do it so I don't even have to bend over.  That marine lifting ring will lift 5,500 pounds, but even with that, I'm not getting under anything.

I set the mower back down, and don't run it until the next day.  I don't know where the oil goes in the 35hp Kawasaki (only motor that mower was available with).  It never smokes after leaving it overnight.  I didn't want to try it right away.

A 1" hole is no big deal for a big magnetic drill.  I would probably go 1/2, 3/4, and then to the 1".  They work good with car reamers too.  I drilled that 3/4" hole with a 1/2" bit, and finished with the 3/4.  It's variable speed, constant torque, as well as a couple of speed ranges.  If the bit will cut, it's going right through something.

It seems to me like it cuts easier than a regular drill press.

Offline Don P

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Re: Mag Drills and Weldon bits
« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2022, 07:02:43 AM »
Having done that with the tractor style mower, there's a boat winch and pulley on the shed beam at the barn. If you lift it clear you'll need to chock it to keep the mower from gracefully turning on its tail. I was pulling the transaxle a couple of weeks ago. Uhhh and the battery leaks if you don't remove it  :-[. But what access!
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Offline Tom K

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Re: Mag Drills and Weldon bits
« Reply #11 on: May 03, 2022, 11:22:12 AM »
As said, the standard clearance for structural connections is 1/16" oversized which translates to the cutter sizes you see in the sets. 

You could always drill oversized and use a brass bushing to bush down to the size you want.

I have a Nitto Kohki so I'm somewhat stuck using there brand of cutters as there isn't much aftermarket available.

Offline Crusarius

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Re: Mag Drills and Weldon bits
« Reply #12 on: May 03, 2022, 11:46:48 AM »
Definitely something to think about when ordering one of these. Make sure they do not have proprietary bits.

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Re: Mag Drills and Weldon bits
« Reply #13 on: May 03, 2022, 05:19:40 PM »
Here's the model I ended up with.  It has a MT3 mount.  The 3/4" chuck can be changed out by hand.  Bits larger than 3/4", I bought with a MT3 shank.

Another good thing about it is the adjustable base.  You can hit the button to activate the magnet, but still slide the drill motor around some, and lock it exactly where you want it with a lever.

I bought it used, with free shipping off ebay for half of retail.  It wasn't hurt, and was extremely well packed to get here in good shape.

Electromagnetic Drill Presses, Motors and Drill Kits | Milwaukee Tool    It's the 4208 model.

It's used for these pin alignment rigs:
https://www.americanmachinetools.com/line_boring.htm

Offline Crusarius

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Re: Mag Drills and Weldon bits
« Reply #14 on: May 03, 2022, 05:41:31 PM »
oooh, just found an M18 version. I am in love :)

Offline 230Dforme

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Re: Mag Drills and Weldon bits
« Reply #15 on: May 04, 2022, 05:24:11 AM »
The gold standard for mag drills and cutters is
Hougen Manufacturing. Used by steel fabricators.

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Re: Mag Drills and Weldon bits
« Reply #16 on: May 04, 2022, 09:37:42 AM »
Yes.  I like sharp blades, but won't get under a mower, so might as well do it so I don't even have to bend over.  That marine lifting ring will lift 5,500 pounds, but even with that, I'm not getting under anything.
I'll admit it... it gave me the creeps standing under this contraption. I'll be using your method in the future.


 
Case 580SK backhoe, New Holland L228 skid steer, Kubota 900rtv, Home made band mill in the works, 1968 Chevy C50 Dump Truck, 1972 C10, 2000 Silverado 1500HD, all sorts of motorcycles.
Ephesians 3: 17-21

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Re: Mag Drills and Weldon bits
« Reply #17 on: May 04, 2022, 10:37:27 AM »
I have been wanting to just make a set of planks I can set on a high point in my yard then drive out onto it. I have enough hills I could make that work very easily. Maybe one day I will. I tried the lift from the front thing with the loader but the fluids leaked all over the place so I don't do that anymore.

Offline ljohnsaw

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Re: Mag Drills and Weldon bits
« Reply #18 on: May 04, 2022, 10:57:43 AM »
The gold standard for mag drills and cutters is
Hougen Manufacturing. Used by steel fabricators.
Yeah, but I think that was the ones that start at $3k and go up from there!  I ordered the DeWalt 1622 and it looks like its coming today along with the set of 11 bits.  Now all I need is a plasma cutter.
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/32" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

Offline scsmith42

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Re: Mag Drills and Weldon bits
« Reply #19 on: May 04, 2022, 03:29:45 PM »
The gold standard for mag drills and cutters is
Hougen Manufacturing. Used by steel fabricators.
I have a Hougen and recall that it was around $1,200 when I bought it 15 years back.  Mine is set up for either annular cutters or drill bits.
Annual cutters are much faster to use.  About the only time that I use the drill chuck is if I'm drilling thick steel with a hole size <1/2", or need to use an oddball hole size such as for threading.
I highly recommend an annular cutter model if you can justify it.
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Re: Mag Drills and Weldon bits
« Reply #20 on: May 04, 2022, 06:18:30 PM »
The M18 version goes for 2800 :( One day I will justify it!!!!

Offline ljohnsaw

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Re: Mag Drills and Weldon bits
« Reply #21 on: May 04, 2022, 08:32:36 PM »
Well, the DeWalt came this morning (Amazon left it between vehicles on the driveway!) and its a beast.  Must weigh about 30 pounds.  It uses the Weldon chuck for annular cutters (which I also got this afternoon).  The chuck is "tool-less".  You slide it like the chuck on little impact guns.  On Amazon, it was recommending buying a 3/4" chuck and a Weldon to threaded adapter.  Almost did.  I was surprised to see DeWalt included that with the drill!

Tomorrow, I'll be laying out the holes to drill before I cut this up into various parts like hydraulic ram mounts and "hinges" for my grapple attachment.


 1" thick.
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/32" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

Offline Tom King

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Re: Mag Drills and Weldon bits
« Reply #22 on: May 05, 2022, 08:28:52 AM »
I would think it would weigh more than 30 pounds.  My Milwaukee weighs 72.

They're great tools.  I'm sure you will find more uses for it.

Offline Crusarius

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Re: Mag Drills and Weldon bits
« Reply #23 on: May 05, 2022, 09:24:40 AM »
I want pictures!! :):):):):):)

Offline ljohnsaw

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Re: Mag Drills and Weldon bits
« Reply #24 on: May 05, 2022, 10:30:06 AM »
would think it would weigh more than 30 pounds
Probably, but next to moving logs, its light ;)

Edit: Just weighed the whole box - 46 pounds.
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/32" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

Offline ljohnsaw

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Re: Mag Drills and Weldon bits
« Reply #25 on: May 05, 2022, 04:40:47 PM »
OK, pretty pleased with it but there are a couple things they should improve.  First the pictures!
Started out drilling through some 5/8" cutting edge scrap from my bucket refurbish.


 Once it broke through the bottom, it ejects the plug.  I retracted the drill bit and moved the drill.  Then I saw you really need to punch down another 1/4" or so to remove the burr that is about the same size as on the plug.

On the third hole, I thought there was still some coolant in the bottle, but no, and I overheated/dulled the bit  :-\  The nipple on the bottom of the bottle sits up inside about 1/4" to 5/16" so you can't really use up all the coolant.  At first I thought the coolant line was plugged.  I filled the bottle and opened the valve to full.  Nothing flowing.  So I blew in the bottle to pressurize it - still no flow.  The ejector pin has to be pushed (in contact with the drilling plate) to open a valve in the spindle.  Pretty clever - when you stop drilling, the coolant stops. 

Anyhow, I touched the cutter up with a goofy diamond grinder I made with a sewing machine motor.  Then it cut pretty good again.  The only problem then is it didn't eject the plug on two holes.  I must have altered the geometry or something.  Even with stopping to sharpen, the eight holes took an hour mostly because I was going slow and trying different things.  I found it cuts faster at the lower speed.

Then on to the 1" stock.  This was a milder steel.  I think I was punching the holes at about the same speed as a " hole in aluminum of the same thickness.  Pretty impressive.

 

 
On the third hole I couldn't get it to punch through so I thought it might be dull and I re-touched up.  But that made no difference.  So I leaned on it more and it went through.  I think the surface is just a bit harder from the milling process.

So right off, I see three things that need changes/improvements. 

The coolant bottle uses magnets to attach to some small steel strips screwed to the side of the press slide.  The magnets are about twice the width of the steel and they slide around allowing the bottle to twist and drop down.  I'm going to make some wider plates with an edge on them to contain the magnets to keep the bottle straight.

The handle for lowering the drill can be placed on either side and has a push button quick release to make it easy.  Really nice.  However, the hose on the coolant bottle is too short to wrap to the other side so I'm stuck with the handle on the right side for now.  I'll dig out some hose and fix that.

The chuck is a tool-less set up.  You push the collar up, insert the bit (you have to look for and align with the flats on the bit) and slide the collar down.  Easy.  Not super tight so there is a little play in the bit but still cuts a clean hole.  On my " DeWalt impact gun, you PULL the collar to release the bit.  Twice while drilling, at the end after punching through, I continue down to clean up the exit burr, the collar gets pushed up by the metal shavings and it releases the bit in the hole when I crank the head up.  Not much I can do about that other than make sure the chips are not piling up at the end of the cutting.

And now I refill the coolant bottle when it gets to the half way mark ;)
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/32" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

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Re: Mag Drills and Weldon bits
« Reply #26 on: May 05, 2022, 08:26:16 PM »
I am jealous. I still want one of those pretty bad.

Offline scsmith42

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Re: Mag Drills and Weldon bits
« Reply #27 on: May 06, 2022, 10:34:38 AM »
Looks like a great purchase; thanks for the review.

Although my Hougen has a built in coolant bottle, I use an oil can with cutting oil and manually lube the cutter while it's drilling.

A slow speed, with steady feed seems to work best for me. I'm careful not to allow the cutter to work harden the steel when drilling.

So far I have not had to resharpen any cutters.  But I've only used them to drill mild steel.  I've broken some that were <1/2" so I'll install the drill chuck and use a standard twist drill bit when drilling smaller holes.

Mag drills are fantastic tools for drilling in thick steel.
Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

Offline Tom K

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Re: Mag Drills and Weldon bits
« Reply #28 on: May 06, 2022, 01:08:05 PM »
Do you have any picture of the burr's on the bottom? Maybe you have a different profile then the annular cutters I'm used to, I haven't noticed any burrs.  The plug has that shelf, but the work piece has always been clean.

I can't say much about feed rate as I haven't drilled much thick metal. Mine has either manual or self feed and the self feed is actually faster then I would have thought. That cutting edge is pretty hard steel though, you should be able to feed faster in mild/low carbon steel.

Offline ljohnsaw

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Re: Mag Drills and Weldon bits
« Reply #29 on: May 06, 2022, 04:10:39 PM »
There are 3 different profiles on the teeth, IIRC.  One high on the inside, one high on the outside and one that is more of a V profile.  Perhaps that V is a bit longer so the middle of the cut is deeper.  The first hole I retracted as soon as the plug popped - from the force of the center finder.  Its got a strong spring.  I just go a little further after the pop now.
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/32" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

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Re: Mag Drills and Weldon bits
« Reply #30 on: May 12, 2022, 07:35:00 PM »
OK, used it again.  Had 4 holes to drill in 1" mild steel (again).  Marked it, punched the center hole and scratched the cut lines with my angle grinder (for later cutting off).  Set up the drill.  Drilled four 1 inch holes that took less than a minute each (I counted).  Cleaned up.  Total time ~30 minutes for 4 minutes of drilling :D  I should have bought this thing 35 years ago!

On my tractor, I need to enlarge these oblong holes for my 3pt hitch stabilizer bars.  I think they are " and need to be 1" or a little bigger.  Should be a piece of cake.  For drilling sideways or upside down, they say to use drilling paste.  Where do you find that locally?  HD?  Would axle grease suffice?


 I might have to take a piece of plate steel, pre-drill a 2" hole, clamp it on and stick the drill to that.
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/32" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

Offline btulloh

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Re: Mag Drills and Weldon bits
« Reply #31 on: May 12, 2022, 07:59:44 PM »
Hougen slick stick. Amazon, etc.

Slick stick
HM126

Offline btulloh

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Re: Mag Drills and Weldon bits
« Reply #32 on: May 12, 2022, 08:30:17 PM »
Thats impressive. Glad its turned out to be a good investment. The problem now is that it makes me want to expand my annular cutter collection. I sure could use a mag drill too, but I always come to the conclusion that I wouldnt need it often enough to justify. Hmmmmm.

Most of the heavy stuff I need drill right now can go to the drill press. Maybe I should get a couple of those long cutters and pick up a weldon chuck on a morse taper to use in the drill press. That could get me by until I decide i really need the mag drill. Or convince myself I need one.  (Tell us again how you should of bought one thirty-five years ago . . . lol )
HM126

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Re: Mag Drills and Weldon bits
« Reply #33 on: May 12, 2022, 08:40:18 PM »
. . .  I need to enlarge these oblong holes for my 3pt hitch stabilizer bars.  I think they are " and need to be 1" or a little bigger. . . . 
Why?
Stabilizer bars with 1 bolts? . . . cant understand that. 
The stock bars and attachments have taken a ton of abuse on my 545D Ford, without any carnage on the attachment points or the bars. 
Just trying to understand what youre up to John.
I have a Milwaukee mag drill and it is fabulous. When you need it, its priceless.
LT40G25
Ford 545D loader
Stihl chainsaws

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Re: Mag Drills and Weldon bits
« Reply #34 on: May 12, 2022, 09:31:22 PM »
Makes a nice drill press for large holes in wood too.  Clamp the drill press to a steel plate with the magnet, and if you need to, clamp the plate to the beam.  

When I need holes in a plate to mount the drill on something by bolting the plate to whatever, I use the MDP to drill the holes needed in the plate.


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