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Author Topic: What are major issues facing forestry in U.S.?  (Read 9595 times)

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Offline BrandonTN

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Re: What are major issues facing forestry in U.S.?
« Reply #20 on: February 03, 2012, 10:51:17 PM »
One thing's for sure: there is no short supply of forests in US. I can say, after seeing the deforestation in France (due to agriculture use, small land base per capita, urban expansion etc) in comparison the US is loaded with forests (much more species diversity, too). However, that's only the snapshot for now...as someone mentioned above about increased fragmentation/parcelization of forest in New England, the same will apply to other or all parts of the US in time, and even a bit further in time US will look like France with croplands (exponential human pop growth, suburban/ubran expansion, etc).

As people here have said, finances are the big issue for forestry now. Seems to me the housing bubble over saturated the market with homes as the result of people expecting too much too soon (lenders AND borrows). As people have mentioned, decimated housing market. With all of the legal-financial engineering that went on in past 2 decades, a housing bubble was born from it and perhaps many people mistook that bubble growth as quality growth? It's interesting to think about the situation in forestry in US now. Transitions going on as baby boomers retire, and new generation takes the reigns...people trying to get a grasp on what's going on? (or at least I'm trying to :D)

The abstraction as I see it:  :o major issues facing forestry are the same issues facing the US in general... issues like adapting our system to changing national and global conditions.  We are searching for unified direction...seems this is a time of transition and re-evaluation. What worked yesterday isn't working the same today. America's value for individuality is a great thing and after spending time in Europe I'm more aware of the freedoms we actually have in America...however at same time I have become more conscious of how US excesses can have negative effects on people elsewhere.

In this shrinking world, some freedoms of yesterday may be relative excesses of tomorrow. As has always been the case, what we change and what we conserve will make all the difference for US.
Forester - Nantahala National Forest
Good to be back home in the Southeast

Offline Okrafarmer

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Re: What are major issues facing forestry in U.S.?
« Reply #21 on: February 03, 2012, 11:55:58 PM »
I do think the shrinking/aging logger population is a big deal. There is a similar crisis for farmers. To start up fresh is so difficult.
He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. Psalm 91:1

Operating a 2020 Woodmizer LT35 hydraulic for Wagner Farms, Dacusville, SC

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Offline jim king

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Re: What are major issues facing forestry in U.S.?
« Reply #22 on: February 04, 2012, 10:30:53 AM »
Quote
I do think the shrinking/aging logger population is a big deal. There is a similar crisis for farmers. To start up fresh is so difficult.

I read a storey a while back that said that most people could not sell thier business and have enough money to duplicate it a start over.

Offline caveman

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Re: What are major issues facing forestry in U.S.?
« Reply #23 on: February 19, 2012, 08:54:12 PM »
jpsheb, sorry not to reply for so long about our FFA forestry team.  The kids did well, learned a lot and had a trip of a lifetime.  It was a special trip for me as well since my oldest daughter was on the team.  The information provided here helped to prepare them.  Thank you for all who responded.  Caveman

Offline jpsheb

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Re: What are major issues facing forestry in U.S.?
« Reply #24 on: October 05, 2021, 11:01:06 AM »
No worries on the late reply, Caveman.  I guess I can take a while to reply too.

Thanks for the info (I'd taken a break my aspirations of managing timberland to work for the navy a while).  Re-started from scratch a couple years ago.  

Offline Texas Ranger

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Re: What are major issues facing forestry in U.S.?
« Reply #25 on: October 05, 2021, 03:18:15 PM »
Did I miss any one saying the failure of the feds to put effective management on the federal lands?  No salvage, no real fuel reduction, bowing down to the greens?
The Ranger, home of Texas Forestry

Offline WDH

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Re: What are major issues facing forestry in U.S.?
« Reply #26 on: October 05, 2021, 03:44:27 PM »
There is a major issue with enough trucking capacity on the wood harvesting side. 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Offline BrandonTN

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Re: What are major issues facing forestry in U.S.?
« Reply #27 on: November 24, 2021, 01:53:39 AM »
Did I miss any one saying the failure of the feds to put effective management on the federal lands?  No salvage, no real fuel reduction, bowing down to the greens?
Alright ol' timer, let's dance! :p
Youre right, enough management has not been/is not taking place on Fed lands, esp in CA. And there has been much bowing to greens, yes. However, it's not helpful to be condescending to us younger ones still working...your generation isnt free from playing a part in how we got here today. 
The solution is more ramped up mgmt on FS lands, but strategically on the landscaoes and in unison with public outreach/education about how management mimics natural forest ecological processes (this latter part being something your generation wasnt too concerned with....one could argue the greens filled a vacuum at that time).
In sum, current FS foresters think the days of apolopetic forestry on FS lands should be finished....we've specialzed in "collaboration on planning projects. Now i hope we can start collaborating with sawmills more.
Which leads to my concern as already mebtioned above.....age demographics of loggers. Also hardwood markets....(vinyl flooring is king these days)
Forester - Nantahala National Forest
Good to be back home in the Southeast

Offline SwampDonkey

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Re: What are major issues facing forestry in U.S.?
« Reply #28 on: November 24, 2021, 04:04:57 AM »
Look at all that hardwood including 'Bertha' and all her support equipment you can't see in that back corner and the little table and 960 sq feet of flooring. ;D





No amount of belief makes something a fact. James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Offline mike_belben

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Re: What are major issues facing forestry in U.S.?
« Reply #29 on: November 24, 2021, 12:21:48 PM »
CDL pool willing to drive a log truck is shrinking

logging equipment is rising while the doller per acre value is shrinking

money printing is making the profit margin of most any equipment heavy small business startup venture look pretty tight in real purchasing power. you can make $60k a year +med/dent/401k with a bench in a heated building and set schedule without a degree if you are mechanically inclined, but might need to spend $150k on equipment to reliably make that in the woods and its a hard way to live at times.  theres a lotta guys who could be loggers that just wont be because the barrier to entry gets bigger all the time as old iron dies and big $ DEF junk replaces it.

not to mention all the rules put on loggers in some jurisdictions we read about here on the forum.

you just arent gonna have as many startups as back when a tractor, saw, pickup truck and a handshake got you in the door with pallet bolts or something entry level like that.  a bobcat or backhoe and tag trailer will lure someone to crossover from residential to woods work but with the housing explosion i think small logging is a big paycut compared to driveways, culverts, septics and so on right now.
Revelation 13:11-18

Offline Texas Ranger

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Re: What are major issues facing forestry in U.S.?
« Reply #30 on: November 24, 2021, 05:57:27 PM »
Biggest problem in my part of Texas is realestate investment companies.  Turning timber land into 5 to 30 thousand dollars an acre "ranches."  Second largest is private owners die, kids take over, sell the timber, subdivide and go the route of the RET's.  In simple terms, the land has out valued the timber.
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Offline SwampDonkey

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Re: What are major issues facing forestry in U.S.?
« Reply #31 on: November 25, 2021, 05:38:05 AM »
Big problem up here is subsidized timber, that's why it's cheaper than land and equipment. If a woodlot owner wants to sell timber it has to be at cut throat subsidy prices. Why would a mill want to pay you more when they don't need your wood. The mill is tied to government wood like an umbilical cord. You aren't going to compete against the government. No sign of that ever changing. 40,000 voting woodlot owners here don't count for much against the Irvings. They keep voting for the wrong people.......over and over and over. I haven't voted for the two parties for 20 years because they employ the same bunch. It tells me they like to talk different than they vote. ::)
No amount of belief makes something a fact. James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Offline mike_belben

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Re: What are major issues facing forestry in U.S.?
« Reply #32 on: November 25, 2021, 08:30:14 AM »
I forgot to mention the size of forestry equipment has gone to the strictly large size.  The size jacks the sticker price, insurance expense and fuel consumption way up which pushes operators to either high grade or clearcut too soon.  

 The cost to operate does not allow the average cutter the ability to put much time into good stewardship.  The bills scream go go go.  If the market had small, stout economical machines then i feel a lot more long term managing would be going on. 

think of a trencher sized articulated chassis, hydrostatic, 3cylinder tier-zero diesel with a small grapple and cable on back and a quick attach loader on front.  Foamed 33x15 floation lugs and LEDs in every direction.   Thats a machine that can showup on a gooseneck behind a dually, load handcut logs on the same trailer that it lives on every day and really thin the pulp and pallet out of a stand so that all the sunshine is producing #1 sawlogs and up instead of mostly junk. 


If that 1man show class of equipment was abundant it would lead to a lot of 1 man shows seeking to long term manage timber stands.  long term connection to a piece of ground really invests a caretaker to have a considerate footprint.  Not wreck a trail i will have to use for years, not deplete a resource that could feed me for years. That sort of thing. Do you guys wham bam your own farms and leave oil buckets and flat tires pushed over the ditch?   Because thats what normal logging looks like around here.  Take the best trees and leave the 303 pails. Just run em over a bit so they look better. 


I feel like US forestry is doomed if it doesnt change entirely.  Maybe to a long term lease format.  Is that a thing anywhere?  Paying an annual lease fee on long term contracts?
Revelation 13:11-18

Offline SwampDonkey

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Re: What are major issues facing forestry in U.S.?
« Reply #33 on: November 26, 2021, 03:55:24 PM »
At one time we had a deputy Minister of Forests who was a forester. The crown lands and forests act was written and was not a one sided document (ie mill centred), it included woodlot owners in the wood supply game and all public wood had to be processed within New Brunswick before export. New government comes in everything is mill centred from then on. Been 35 years now with mostly clear cutting on all land both public and private, so most of the trees you see now are that age.  'My, the trees are awefully small in New Brunswick aren't they?'
No amount of belief makes something a fact. James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Offline wisconsitom

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Re: What are major issues facing forestry in U.S.?
« Reply #34 on: December 07, 2021, 10:16:32 AM »
Commodity prices-ensuring that little timber is or will be grown on deep loamy soils, where trees grow best.  That ground is for corn!!!

Invasive species;  If you've ever seen what buckthorn can do to a woods, you'll know once this or equivalent invasive shrub gets into the site, no forestry is possible.

Closure of numerous mills.  Nowhere to go with low-grade.

Labor issues.  Like Mike Belben said, why log when you can do construction or other stuff for more $$/easier life?

Urban sprawl.  We're now losing forest land rapidly to housing, malls, banks, whathaveyou.....it is ongoing.

Divestment of big timber/paper companies in their land holdings.  Consolidated Paper's thousands of acres of forest land in N. Wisconsin are now owned piecemeal by myriad small owners.  Probably closest most of these folks get to "management" is maybe hinging a few hardwoods "for the deer".

Deer:  Far too many deer for healthy regen.  Some species closed right out by the browsers.

And now, the largest looming factor-climate change.  Good grief, we forest-minded folks like to think long-term, but whatdaya do when the future is looking inhospitable to what we now enjoy and depend on?

I'm a life-long learner.  That's why I made sure to start out real dumb!

Offline mike_belben

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Re: What are major issues facing forestry in U.S.?
« Reply #35 on: December 07, 2021, 11:50:11 AM »
the closer you look at the world the harder it is to be optimistic.  i envy those bubbly people who can just tune it out.  i dont know that ignoring a problem helps it, but i know pondering it too much hurts you personally and changes nothing. 
Revelation 13:11-18

Offline Okrafarmer

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Re: What are major issues facing forestry in U.S.?
« Reply #36 on: May 01, 2022, 10:30:03 PM »
Sounds so bleak.  :-\

All I know is, I can get plenty of logs for my sawmill from small local loggers and from arborists. We pay around $180 / KBF for SYP and a little more for other things. We're selling well and getting decent price for our lumber. Been selling 2x4's green off the mill for $1.52/bf on up, and everything bigger or longer than 1.5x5.5x 8 ft. is more per bf. 


Of course there's a lot of inflation. So far we're doing ok. Had to switch our emphasis from boutique hardwoods to farm-grade softwood, but our biggest sellers are SYP, White Oak, and ERC. We still sell the boutique hardwoods, just not as much.
He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. Psalm 91:1

Operating a 2020 Woodmizer LT35 hydraulic for Wagner Farms, Dacusville, SC

Looking for the return of the Lord!

Offline Ron Scott

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Re: What are major issues facing forestry in U.S.?
« Reply #37 on: May 03, 2022, 06:23:07 PM »
  • Flammable forest fuels, intense forest fires 
  • Forest fragmentation
  • Lack of Private landowner forest stewardship planning
  • Nonnative species management
  • New and invasive forest insects and disease

Offline WDH

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Re: What are major issues facing forestry in U.S.?
« Reply #38 on: May 04, 2022, 10:38:50 AM »
Logging and trucking capacity. 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Offline kantuckid

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Re: What are major issues facing forestry in U.S.?
« Reply #39 on: May 08, 2022, 10:56:38 AM »
One recent challenge I see in my area is the selectivity of the buyers for timber. A cooperage, whiskey barrel plant near me will result in selective cutting of White Oak. Current diesel fuel costs will influence what a logger can afford to cut and haul to market. I see sawmills that are extremely heavy with WO logs yet barely buying other species which kills a loggers ability to reward forest owners who have mostly diverse woodlots.
Fragmentation of private forest properties will continue here in KY as inability to protect small forests after owners death will have us continue to see forested lands turn into vacation and 2nd home properties. This is compounded by terrain that gives few building sites combined with property distribution in wills.
Business & tourism interest's in my area tend to see the horse & bourbon industry here yet fail to see the timber industry which is far larger in value, thus the PR goes towards them not forestry programs.
Honestly, this topic is a tough one to discuss here as I'm trying to avoid politics and many of the answers lead towards that area.
I'll add absentee landowners (private & corporate) to the great lists above. In KY much of the forested lands belong to coal, steel & timber companies. We all know that coal & steel are in uncertain waters lately in the USA.
Kan=Kansas;tuck=Kentucky;kid=what I'm not


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