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Saw Mark Anthropology.

Started by Jeff, June 21, 2021, 01:21:07 PM

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Jeff

When ever I see a rough sawn peice of lumber, I am irresistibly compelled to examine the saw marks to try and figure out how it was sawn, what it was sawn with, and what might have been going on at the time with the saw that did the sawing.

Was it circle or band or other? Left hand right hand?  Off the headrig or resawn? Multiple blades? Any tooth damage? How was the set?  Rate of feed?  So many possibilities come to mind. 

Is it just me? Why would any normal person even ever want to know??
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

olcowhand

I'm the same way, although even before I became obsessed with Sawing and such, I was still very interested. Before I knew Bandsaw Mills existed, I thought saw marks like that were done by Colonial- era "Pit Sawyers". I guess that's probably why your question doesn't necessarily apply to me; nobody ever accused me of being "normal"....
Steve
Olcowhand's Workshop, LLC

They say the mind is the first to go; I'm glad it's something I don't use!

Ezekiel 36:26-27

mike_belben

I do the same with fabricated metal witness marks and machinery internals.. Shafting, gears, sprockets.  Was it flame cut, stamped, power shear, plasma, endmill, water jet, broach or hobb etc etc etc etc
Praise The Lord

Southside

Coming soon to FX - CSI Harrison - the Tree Detectives... ;D
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
White Oak Meadows

terrifictimbersllc

Quote from: Southside on June 21, 2021, 02:12:56 PM
Coming soon to FX - CSI Harrison - the Tree Detectives... ;D
....and it was a perfect match. 😁

Didn't wood forensics help solve the Lindbergh case?
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

GAB

I do the same thing with plastic injection molded parts.
Where is the parting line?
Did it come from a compound mold.
Etc.
GAB
W-M LT40HDD34, SLR, JD 420, JD 950w/loader and Woods backhoe, V3507 Fransguard winch, Cordwood Saw, 18' flat bed trailer, and other toys.

YellowHammer

I also do it, if nothing more than to track the quality and source of the wood I may be purchasing.  It also impresses the customers.  I can say things like, "its circle mill sawn, old blade, rarely sharpened, rapid feed, newbie, a couple teeth out, etc.  If I just want to jerk people around, I'll tell them I can see it was sawn on a Friday, because everybody saws with a left hand rig on Friday to get good Karma, and was done on a full moon because the wood fibers are pointing opposite the cut direction. :D :D :D   Its obvious, isn't it? And the customer will just nod their head...
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

terrifictimbersllc

Cantilever sawmill with a wooden leg, outrigger wave, fad in the  70s 
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

sealark37

Those of us who are have been around circle mills for years naturally look at the saw marks on a rough sawn item, and try to imagine how and where it was sawn, even if the board is many years old.  Best I ever checked was a 26 inch pine floorboard in a house on the beach in South Carolina.  What was that saw diameter?

Old Greenhorn

Quote from: YellowHammer on June 21, 2021, 03:49:35 PM
I also do it, if nothing more than to track the quality and source of the wood I may be purchasing.  It also impresses the customers.  I can say things like, "its circle mill sawn, old blade, rarely sharpened, rapid feed, newbie, a couple teeth out, etc.  If I just want to jerk people around, I'll tell them I can see it was sawn on a Friday, because everybody saws with a left hand rig on Friday to get good Karma, and was done on a full moon because the wood fibers are pointing opposite the cut direction. :D :D :D   Its obvious, isn't it? And the customer will just nod their head...
OH I do like this a lot! As an old guy it becomes my statutory right to jerk folks around who need it, does it not? I should use this more often as it brings great joy and joy is something we all deserve.
 I had a dear Uncle, my favorite, who was a good Great story teller. He had advanced degrees in math (PHD) Mechanical Engineering (PHD), Chemical Engineering (PHD), Geology (Masters), Mineralogy (masters) and a few others. Generally what you would call a 'smart fella'. But he was a down home Texas boy with a dry sense of humor. Any time he started telling a story and I was in ear shot, I would drop what I was doing and walk over in rapt attention. He certainly had the knowledge to go into the detailed science of various things so you believed everything he said, of course. He might be telling a story about some complex major engineering problem he was part of or somebody's bad day he helped resolve. No matter he always started out the story the same way "I recall this one time they were pouring this large concrete slab for a new factory addition were were putting up.......Do you know anything about pouring big concrete slabs?" He always threw that question in. It was his way of assessing the knowledge of the listener so he could craft the tale around what they didn't know. It took me decades to realize the genius in this. The issue with his stories were that as interesting and amazing as they were, you never knew if they would end with a total fabricated joke, or if it was a true engineering problem with a fascinating solution. It could be either, and sometimes both. I miss my Uncle Gus, he was one of the folks that established the Dow Chemical plant in Freeport, TX and he also designed the city of Lake Jackson to house the staff and workforce at that plant. He created and edited and published the Lake Jackson News. Built the first group of store fronts to lease out to the appliance stores, laundry's, and other necessary businesses to support the city. If If you go to the Lake Jackson Museum, they have his entire Dow office re-created in the museum. I miss him greatly. Thanks for bringing that memory up YH. BTW, my uncle Gus never graduated from High School.  He was always a little ashamed of that. As the oldest he dropped out in his senior year to support the family when his father (my GF) suffered a serious head injury, but that is another story for another time.
 The point is he was a master story teller and he ability to pull your leg a little or stretch the truth nearly always left you wondering if he was telling the truth or not. It's a skill I need to work on now that I can dedicate the time. Thanks again for pointing that out. I owe it to Uncle Gus to keep it going, even on his death bed his humor was with me. But that too is another story, and I'll need a couple of beers to tell that one. There is no punchline though.
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

dgdrls


YellowHammer

That was cool... I enjoyed it.
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

Old Greenhorn

Well, I always thought Uncle Gus was a very cool guy. Actually all my Uncles were cool guys, but for me Uncle Gus had some flash and I loved his wealth of knowledge that drew me in since I was a very little boy. I think it gave me my interest for digging deeper in everything I encounter.
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

D6c

Quote from: GAB on June 21, 2021, 03:33:10 PM
I do the same thing with plastic injection molded parts.
Where is the parting line?
Did it come from a compound mold.
Etc.
GAB
I do the same thing....look to see how parting line was made, any core pulls, lifters, gate type, etc.  Occupational hazard I guess.

Sheepkeeper

I spent 9 years working in a furniture factory and I see things when I look at furniture. I don't have to look for the flaws - they come looking for me.  :D
The hurry-er I go the behind-er I get.

Jeff

Dont walk through our house, you'd be aghast!  :D
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

moodnacreek

When pulling out old lumber I can often tell the age by the saw of edger marks. The first stuff I cut is mostly gone and is very easy to tell and embarrassing . I had a solid tooth saw, a 1" [per revolution] feed and a 25 hp B 125 Allis C. That saw was never made right and needed a lot of swedge. Not only that but the mandrel came bent, when I sold it I had Lane straighten it and cut the collars. Next came an insert saw and a 223 ford 6 and then 292 v8. Then an e 60 ac, 318 cat and today 75 electric. All different saw marks. The easyest thing to tell is the feed rate. My first edger was a chain feed with sharp spikes the really marked boards.  There is a customer I deliver fence boards to [1x6 oak] and  many did not come from me, they are band cut and appear to have been sawn on a machine with a 16 " feed.

thecfarm

My other hobby is walking wood lots that have been cut.  ;D
I look at stumps to see how the tree was cut. Now with a harvester, it's hard to see how the tree was cut.  :D 
By the way, what is normal?  :D  Talking about saws, trees and wood is normal to me.
Other may talk about what's on TV.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Cedarman

When I see old westerns I like to look at the wood to see how it was sawn.  Also I like to look at fences to see what kind of fence posts were used.  Same with driving around the country.  Like to look at fence posts.  Kansas has some nice ones made from rock.
I am in the pink when sawing cedar.

scsmith42

Quote from: Jeff on June 21, 2021, 01:21:07 PM
When ever I see a rough sawn peice of lumber, I am irresistibly compelled to examine the saw marks to try and figure out how it was sawn, what it was sawn with, and what might have been going on at the time with the saw that did the sawing.

Was it circle or band or other? Left hand right hand?  Off the headrig or resawn? Multiple blades? Any tooth damage? How was the set?  Rate of feed?  So many possibilities come to mind.

Is it just me? Why would any normal person even ever want to know??
I don't go quite that far but I do look at the saw kerf to determine the approximate age of the lumber based upon the kerf marks.
A few years back I had some lumber come in that was pit sawn. Coolest stuff that I ever looked at.  It was part of a restoration project from a 1700's vintage house.
Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

doc henderson

yes cedar man, from lime stone as we were once under the ocean!  we lived in Hays, the post rock area, and a museum in the area if you ever travel I-70 via Kansas.
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

doc henderson

oh and from the title, i thought you were making a pun about seeing Mark Anthony. :)
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

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