Stacking wedges in felling tree

[Kenzen]

I was wanting to use stacking wedges in helping fell a tree.  Have heard that one can either plunge cut above or below your felling cut and put wedges in the plunge cut such in as the pic.  So any advise in best way of doing this

 

[beenthere]

Looks like it might work, but they would be hard to hit individually to drive them in.

[Autocar]

I just stack two wedges on top of each other and drive them into the cut if one dosen't lift it enough. Iam not sure how your way will help but not a expert on that type of lifting.

[CCC4]

Thats a new one on me for sure. I don't see the advantage. I will stack them like Autocar suggested but I can't get my head around the 4 wedges. Looks to me like if you had a bad back lean you were wedgeing against that those 4 essentially kerfs would work against themselves on lifting. I am curious to hear what other people have to say, it's interesting for sure.

It looks from the pic that your back cut is minimal and you will run out of lift. What kind of face is in that cut?

[Maine372]

been there, done that. its a pain but it does work.

the easier method is this - drive one wedge all the way. cut a slice about the thickness of the butt end of the wedge from something small, like 3-4in. use that as a spacer and drive the second wedge. rinse and repeat as needed.

[Jeff]

Kenzen, is that your photo or did you lift it from another website?

[june]

sorry i never saw that . i use for big threes two wedges on the sides  and a thicker iron wedge on the back and it always work for me.

or push it with the skidder :D

[SFires]

Looks to me that the amount of "lift" each wedge could make would be limited by a plunge cut off me if that makes any sense to anyone. Seems a shallow cross cut would be better to allow more lift  but I guess that could also possible cause a chunk to break out the back side.  Curious to see how it works. Let u know how it goes if you try it

[redprospector]

I don't see the practicality of it. Why not just drive in 1 wedge to get a little lift, and then stack up a couple more in the same cut if needed. That should give about 2 1/2" of lift. If that isn't enough there are lots of other things that can be done without boring 3 slots in a stump.

[John Mc]

the easier method is this - drive one wedge all the way. cut a slice about the thickness of the butt end of the wedge from something small, like 3-4in. use that as a spacer and drive the second wedge. rinse and repeat as needed.

That's how I do it. Driving the second wedge on top of the cookie frees up the first wedge. If the second wedge doesn't tip it over, cut another thicker cookie to slip into the gap, and pound the first wedge in on top of that.

Another benefit: a wedge on top of a cookie is far less likely to spit back out of the back cut than two wedges stacked on top of each other.

[Peter Drouin]

Never seen a thing like that.
And by the time you had all the wedges in I would have the tree on the ground.

[Spartan]

Never seen a thing like that.
And by the time you had all the wedges in I would have the tree on the ground.

And the next one too!

[SineWave]

Bailey's "rifled" falling wedges are nice for stacking. The "rifling" keeps them stacked by keeping them from squirming out...

[loggerman1959]

I think that's over complicating things . Put two wedges together , sandwich  a little sawdust in between for stickiness , and drive them into the back of the tree . If that don't work use that big john deere wedge and push it over .

[BradMarks]

East and West agree!  Loggerman's solution of sawdust for stacking wedges works, without bringing into play the hardness of the wedge. But, use two of the same type.

[treeslayer2003]

good tip on the saw chips, i'll try that. normally what i do is start three side by side but only drive the two outer ones, then when i stack the middle they can't slip side ways.

how can ya push a tree heavier than the skidder?

[SineWave]

how can ya push a tree heavier than the skidder?

Gears / leverage / mechanical advantage?

How can a 16# sledge with a 2 ounce wedge push over a 2-ton tree?

You're not trying to lift the tree, just tilt it. Half the tree is being "lifted" but the other half is being lowered.

[OH logger]

if you stack the two wedges at a 90 degree angle they don't pop out very often at all. pound one then the other and repeat

[thecfarm]

I have used 6 inch wooden wedges made from a dead white maple. My Father and me did not want to flatten out a bunch of small trees so I pounded about 8-10 wedges for a good half hour. I can still hear my Father swearing at that tree and wondering why the DanG thing did not just tip over.  ;D

[GAB]

how can ya push a tree heavier than the skidder?

Gears / leverage / mechanical advantage?

I think you should add hydraulics to your list.
Gerald

[treeslayer2003]

how can ya push a tree heavier than the skidder?

Gears / leverage / mechanical advantage?

How can a 16# sledge with a 2 ounce wedge push over a 2-ton tree?

You're not trying to lift the tree, just tilt it. Half the tree is being "lifted" but the other half is being lowered.

two ton? i was thinking more along the lines of 5+ton trees with heavy lean. it takes a big skidder to push them.

[John Mc]

Never seen a thing like that.
And by the time you had all the wedges in I would have the tree on the ground.

I'd be interested in hearing your technique, particularly if you have one that's quicker that doesn't involve heavy equipment.

[Pine Ridge]

I do it the same way Ohlogger described, drive one wedge in all the way, if the trees still standing stack two more like an X , drive them in alternately. Wear your forestry helmet and pull the visor down when your pounding wedges, when they spit out they have alot of force behind them.

[Peter Drouin]

Never seen a thing like that.
And by the time you had all the wedges in I would have the tree on the ground.

I'd be interested in hearing your technique, particularly if you have one that's quicker that doesn't involve heavy equipment.

I use steel wedges and with a wire feed welder I put a line of weld on the 2 faces and the thing will not pop out.

[CCC4]

This thread is nearing the point of an argument. I hate to see that happen actually. The cut is very odd, not meant to be a production cut...actually I don't see where it would be used for anything than novelty just so you said you could do it I guess. It looks a it serves zero purpose.

A far a techniques on getting a tree down in a faster manner than the one posted by the OP...just about any cut will apply there. By the time you mess around with the kerfing involved and placeing the wedges, I would assume you are looking at a 6 to 7 minute ordeal. On a normal basis I will fall 4 to 6 trees in that amount of time and use wedges when needed. Thats all fine, but I am paid production and I have no choice but run and gun when I have 2 skidders on me at all times.

Like I said earlier, it seems to be a novelty cut...it is interesting...glad it was shown and shared here for review and I am gonna leave it like that. 

[brendonv]

Ive used cutting board material cut into small squares. Insert wedge, pound, insert square with wedge on top, pound. Remove initial wedge, stack two squares amd wedge, pound.  Works well.

[John Mc]

This thread is nearing the point of an argument. I hate to see that happen actually. The cut is very odd, not meant to be a production cut...actually I don't see where it would be used for anything than novelty just so you said you could do it I guess. It looks a it serves zero purpose.

If my post came across as argumentative, it was not meant to be. I was actually hoping to hear from Peter what he does to drop back leaners, since I know he's far more experienced than I am. I don't do "production felling", so I have the luxury of time. However, that doesn't mean I'm not interested in finding a faster/better way.  I have a tractor with a logging winch, but it's not always out in the woods with me, and if it is, it may be nowhere near where I'm cutting (or it may be in use by one of the friends I cut with). So techniques for felling heavy back leaners that don't involve heavy equipment are almost always of interest to me.

I'm cutting firewood for myself and a few friends, as well as for donation to families in need in my area. Since this is often thinning of culling poorly formed trees, I'm often trying to drop a tree in a direction that is not "the easy direction". I'd have to damage a tree with some commercial value or trash that nice apple tree or some hard mast tree that's providing a lot of wildlife benefit just to get a "junk" tree on the ground.

I've never done what is shown in the photo the OP posted. I only carry two wedges with me. If I need more than one, I use the wedge and cookie technique described above (much like what Brendonv is doing with his cutting board pieces). It works for me, but it may not be the fastest way.

[CCC4]

John Mc, what diameter trees are we talking about? There are a few options for wedging a back leaner. The main thing I have found is making sure you have enough of a back cut to utilize a wedge and get your lift. It took me a bit to change up my cuts to figure out what worked best for me in a given scenario. Also, if I am cutting lead in steep ground and I have a back leaner that is going to cause a lot of work or danger...I will send it straight up the hill.

Small diameter (18" or less) back leaners are the tricky ones, and for me I use an unconventional method of making my back cut first and placing a wedge then doing my face cut and driving her home. This technique is very effective but tricky to learn. It is actually one of the few full hinge cuts I will make. If the hinge placement is not spot on and correct thickness, this cut become dangerous. Very very effective but I honestly would not recommend it. It really takes some time to perfect and has a large potential for error until dialed in exactly correct.

[Peter Drouin]

This thread is nearing the point of an argument. I hate to see that happen actually. The cut is very odd, not meant to be a production cut...actually I don't see where it would be used for anything than novelty just so you said you could do it I guess. It looks a it serves zero purpose.

If my post came across as argumentative, it was not meant to be. I was actually hoping to hear from Peter what he does to drop back leaners, since I know he's far more experienced than I am. I don't do "production felling", so I have the luxury of time. However, that doesn't mean I'm not interested in finding a faster/better way.  I have a tractor with a logging winch, but it's not always out in the woods with me, and if it is, it may be nowhere near where I'm cutting (or it may be in use by one of the friends I cut with). So techniques for felling heavy back leaners that don't involve heavy equipment are almost always of interest to me.

I'm cutting firewood for myself and a few friends, as well as for donation to families in need in my area. Since this is often thinning of culling poorly formed trees, I'm often trying to drop a tree in a direction that is not "the easy direction". I'd have to damage a tree with some commercial value or trash that nice apple tree or some hard mast tree that's providing a lot of wildlife benefit just to get a "junk" tree on the ground.

I've never done what is shown in the photo the OP posted. I only carry two wedges with me. If I need more than one, I use the wedge and cookie technique described above (much like what Brendonv is doing with his cutting board pieces). It works for me, but it may not be the fastest way.

I notch, bore the tip in cut from the hinge and leave a strap, Put in a steel wedge, I like them they have more lift. Cut the strap and drop the tree . But in the woods you have to have a plan. Going in and only cutting junk trees is good, but how hard do you want to work?
I now will clear cut an acre skip 2 or 3 and clear cut . That way I have habitat for all kinds of wildlife. And have new growth coming in and the new is not fighting for sun lite.
In a year or two I can go in with a brush saw and cut all the new junk coming in and leave the nice trees.
I do leave all the slash too, Just cut it up some, The rabbits love it.

[John Mc]

Peter -  I occasionally do some patch cuts. They've mostly been on my own land. The other place I cut is co-owned with 15 other families. There we have a forester mark 3-cord firewood lots, and I can only cut what he has marked. Up to now, that's been mostly releasing crop trees, no clear cuts. However, the new Forest Management Plan calls for some patch cuts (in fact, it calls for enough of them that we're concerned that the 4 of us who are "regulars" for firewood will not be able to keep up with what is called for in the plan).

CCC4 - Most of what I cut is under 18". I have done what you describe on some of my back leaners. It let's you get the wedge in while the tree is still supported. More often, I'll do an open face notch, bore cut behind and parallel to the hinge, get my hinge set, then cut out part of the back cut (leaving enough holding wood to keep the tree from settling back) tap in a wedge, cut the holding wood, and drive the wedge.

On trees where the wedge will bottom out against the back of the hinge, I'll change the technique a bit: open face notch, bore through the center of the hinge and out the back, offset up or down slightly and bore through again just enough to get through the hinge, but not into the wood behind the hinge. Tap a wedge into the back of the first bore, then make the back cut by cutting on either side of the wedge (offset up or down so I don't hit the wedge), then drive the wedge in to tip it over. That bore cut through the hinge makes a place for the wedge to go, so it doesn't bottom out. The second bore cut just makes space so the wedge isn't trying to lift and break the hinge itself when I drive it in. It takes a little more time, but can be done with no other tools than a chainsaw and a wedge (and something to drive the wedge with, though a good size limb works OK if I don't have my ax handy).