Beef cattle. Who has them?

[chevytaHOE5674]

The fewer head the more it cost per pound. Building good fence, some sort of handling facilities, infastructure (feeders, water tanks, etc) and paying for liability insurance and dividing it by 2 animals is a large cost per animal. Add in per animal costs like vaccinations, salt/mineral, fly control, water, tank deicing, electricity, grain, hay and that $4/lbs will be cheap.

I'm a cow calf producer that runs a pretty tight budget snd keeps track of expenses down to the penny and often times I can buy freezer beef from somebody cheaper than I can produce it because the seller doesnt have a true handle on the cost to produce.

[Corley5]

Good friends who used to buy hay from me for their horses did an experiment one year.  They bought a feeder steer to finish.  Larry kept track of the expense to the penny.  He didn't tell me the exact figures when they were done but they never did it again ;) ;D.  They had the infrastructure in place.  Paddocks, water, barn etc.

[DennisK]

chevytaHOE5674
He makes a grand assessment of the feed/finisihing.

2.3 to 3.01 is good gain
`

[Firewoodjoe]

Thinking more (prolly to much) I've ate mostly grain finished. One time grass and it was not good. But could have been other problems. Anyways as far as "flavor"goes would grain be needed everyday or just the last few months? 

[Southside]

The issue with straight grass fed beef is two fold.  First guys don't keep them gaining weight all year, not being rude but because too many folks think grass is grass and junk, over mature, round baled, stored in the field hay is great forage, so if they don't gain weight then the intra-muscle fat never forms at all and the meat becomes less desirable.  The second issue is grass fed and finished beef needs to be cooked slowly - it's not a toss the burgers on the grill and 8 minutes later they are done type of meat, I use in-direct heat, and have it turned all the way down, might take 20 minutes to cook a burger but they are melt in your mouth good.  

To answer your question you don't need to feed grain all the time if you have adequate, nutritious forage so that your cows are gaining at least 2 lbs per day, every day.  It takes management of your forage to get that consistently.  If they do that then you will have marbling - assuming genetics are in line - grain feeding the last 90 days will add fat to to the carcass under the skin, but not marbling and that does nothing for flavor as it's all trimmed off anyway.  

[Firewoodjoe]

Thanks. 

[Corley5]

Buy freezer beef from your neighbors.  Take your kids camping, fishing, hunting etc. instead of teaching them to hate cows ;) :D ;D

[LeeB]

I've got a few head. We raise ours for our own use and I also enjoy taking care of them. In the long run my meat bill probably comes out a little better than store bought but not by much. 

[Firewoodjoe]

I've got a few head. We raise ours for our own use and I also enjoy taking care of them. In the long run my meat bill probably comes out a little better than store bought but not by much.

That's what I'm trying to do. And I do take the kids camping hunting fishing lol 😆 but there's always more. I'm kind of a do it yourselfer. 

[Corley5]

Get them involved in 4H livestock where they can learn the business end, get sponsors, learn to show animals and get paid at the Fair.

[Ianab]

Most beef in NZ is grass reared, but the climate is in our favour for that. We can keep them on fresh grass all your round, by doing some (good) hay or silage when the weather is right and we have some excess growth (early summer). Then save some of the excess autumn growth and break feed that to the cattle over the winter. Grass will generally still grow even in winter, but not as fast as it's being eaten. Hence the saved paddocks and hay. You can keep cattle putting on weight over the Winter, but not as fast as when you have an "all you can eat" buffet for them. 

Here's some old pictures of some of X-bred cattle we used to rear. 
Angus / Friesian X
 

Hereford X Friesian, possibly a hint of Jersey as the head isn't completely white. 



 And this girl would be Hereford X with something. Likely a lot of Jersey. Her calf would be 3/4 Hereford though, and has the more normal colouring. 



And a bonus. 
Hereford X Milking Shorthorn...


The issue with raising pure bred beef cattle is you have to feed the breeding cows AND the stock you are rearing to sell. Hence most of the locals rear crossbred (Friesian X preferred), buying in most of their stock as either ~3 day old, or weaner calves. The guys actually breeding Angus / Hereford are mostly aiming to sell their good bull calves to the dairy farmers to run with their replacement heifers / non replacement breeding stock. That way they get calves that can be sold for decent $$, and they can still sell the 2 year old bull to the meat works after he's done his work. 

[Corley5]

  No year round grass in N. Michigan.  It's supplemental feed, hay, silage, grain etc. from October through May.  Stockpiled pastures don't work under a couple feet or more of snow ;D unless you're raising bison.  They need a hay diet up here too. 
  If you're looking to have brood cows I recommend against starting out with heifers.  Buy a couple young bred cows.  That'll save potential headache right out of the gate.
  The time required to babysit the herd will take away from family fun time.  I know.  I grew up with beef cattle. 

[chevytaHOE5674]

As said for good grass finishing then need to be growing steady on good forage. In the frozen north they are on hay 6 to 7 months of the year at times and keeping an animal gaining weight when its -20° for 2 weeks or 28° and raining for 2 weeks straight is nearly impossible. UP here the name of the game is survive and hopefully maintain during the winter months.

LeeB curious when you say you come out a little ahead are you taking into account every single cost? (Amount of water used, electricity for the fence, insurance costs, fuel used to go check cows, etc). If you love what your doing then none of that matters, just curious.

Don't take my posts the wrong way because I love raising cows and wouldn't have it any other way. I just bought another farm so I can grow my herd (have a dream my son will want to continue farming so I'm trying to get enough cows to support 2 households someday). But I run ehough cows that it's my job and I scratch out a living at it. No way I would shell out the money and deal with the headache, heartache, stress, hay season, aggravation, and being tied to home 365 days a year for 2 or 3 head. I would take the kid to somebody else's farm or 4H so they can get the experience without the rest of the hoopla. 

[TKehl]

Feeder calves in early spring may be a good optionmif you want to have cows and raise calves owning a bull for less than 10 head is expensive if you look a it on a cost per pregnancy basis.

That x2.

We have a small cow/calf herd of 30 head.

What I would recommend for you would be either:

1.  Buy calves in the spring and butcher/sell in the fall.  Eliminate the headache of hay and water in the winter.  There are ups and downs having cattle, but 90% of the downs are in the winter.  ;)

Breed would be determined by what you plan to do with them.  Keeping for yourself, it doesn't matter much, but if you plan to sell, it's hard to beat the marketing that Angus has pushed...  Our cow herd is mixed but with an Angus bull.  We finish a few, but most go to the salebarn.  We hold back the ones that aren't black or red to finish as they won't bring as much at the salebarn, but sell well as 1/2 butcher beef that is still 1/2 angus.

2.  Consider sheep instead.  Icelandic sheep would be a good option.  You could have a breeding operation on that acreage if you wanted.  Even if you don't like lamb, sell the lamb and buy a side of beef from a farmer you trust.  ;D

[Bruno of NH]

What about Devins
Had a friend that raised them and sold the beef in NYC 
He got sick and sold his farm and processing plant.

[Firewoodjoe]

Everyone has a different outlook on saving,profits,time,equipment. It's really endless and everyone has a different outcome. Tahoe u say u "scratch" out a living. I'm sure it's tuff. I know it's tuff. Three good family friends have beef. 100+. It's tuff. But I'm not trying to make any money. I'm even ok if it cost me money. The little savings the satisfaction and life style I guess is enough. And I heard all the same things when I started my business. No money in logging, it's tuff. Yep it is and I'm happy with how I'm doing at it. Doing what many told me was not possible anymore, dying breed. My point is everyone has different wants and needs and look on life. I'm glad I've gotten so much input and knowledge from this topic. 😊😊

[Stoneyacrefarm]

Joe,
I started out with 3 young cows ten years ago. 
I currently have 40 between cows and calves and a few Weanlings. 
We make our own hay and barter beef and pork for corn for the winter. 
There is nothing more fun than watching the young calves running around the pastures playing with each other. 
Be Careful. It is very addicting. 
Before you know it you have 10 of them. 
I saw go for it. 
Worst that can happen is you don't like raising cows and you put them in your freezer. 

[DennisK]

I don't want calving this time of year!!!!!!

[DPatton]

Born and raised on Nebraska grain fed beef doesn't mean I know Jack about bovine. I will never claim to be a cattleman or know much about it. With that in consideration I will tell you I was born, raised, and still participate in a family farm that has always maintained a modest heard of 50-75 head of beef as long as my 54 years can remember. Other livestock ( sheep, chickens, hogs) have come and gone, but beef has always been a mainstay for my family. 

  In my early days I recall having a gentle giant angus bull amongst a good number of horned Hereford beef cows with a few cross bred Hereford/angus white faced heifers. We live in the middle of the corn belt so with the help of very low corn prices we annually pen fed calves cheap grain and alfalfa for market, and for our own consumption. 

  Although the Hereford cows were occasionally a bit sassy and combative, they seemed to be decent calf producers. I can remember a few winters in the 70's when calving season was a real challenge and created grim life death situations for the new born calves. Somehow it seemed we always managed to produce calves regardless of the situation.

  As time went by, that herd was bred by numerous registered angus bulls, lost its Hereford lady horns, and slowly became all black and black/white faced cows. In the 1980's, corn was still cheap and we bucket fed on average 20-24 head consistently. Again most for market, but a few for our own consumption. 

  Fast forward another ten years to the 1990's and that herd of my grandfather's and then fathers cattle had eventually become all black angus. By then I had grown up helping, herding, cussing, calving, feeding, and enjoying that herd for around 30 years.
  
  Today some 20+ years later, (January 2020) that same herd belongs to my father, and my next oldest brother David. In a few short years David has made great advancements within the family farm, and within that same Patton Family cattle herd. We are all still enjoying the efforts and fruit of his commitment to that same herd and same family farm.

  A family highlight for me was this fall. In September, I used my sawmill and my own labor to participate in improvements of the family's only livestock barn. The barn has been in existence for much longer than I can recall. I often fondly remember working along side my grandfather (Dexter Patton) and my father (Loran Patton) in the late 70's when we rebuilt and installed tin over the entire original barn, and added two livestock lean to's on both sides. Unbeknownst to me, we were doubling the square footage of the shelter. I couldn't be more proud to have been part of the family legacy, or more proud of my brother David's efforts to keep the family barn a working piece of the farm.

  As I write this today you can bet that I recently finished filling my basement freezer with none other than the standard corn fed, Patton Family Angus 1/4 beef that every member of my family receives yearly for Christmas from my gracious parents and my brother David's family.

  As I said before I don't know Jack about cattle, but I do know a little about the families who raise them.

[SawyerTed]

I've read this thread with a little smile.  We sold our cows a few months ago after over 70 years and three generations running a cow calf operation.  The OP wants 2 or 3 animals as a hobby and he has some experience with cattle.  But the problem is the cattle hobby is like the sawmilling hobby (and weddings).  No matter how small you want to keep things, it is easy for it to grow and grow out of hand quickly.  You have to be very thoughtful about letting things get bigger.  Raising chickens is in the same category, come to think about it, so is boating and fishing....

The economics for making money on 2 or three animals just isn't there unless you can market the meat as organic or free range or some such.  Any savings in meat costs for personal use is offset in sweat equity, fencing, feed costs, meds, vet bills etc. But it is a hobby and supposed to be fun and the investment is in the experience of raising the animals with the children. The danger is that the calves will get names and get hand fed apples and sweet feed ultimately becoming pets.  My daughter named one of ours Two Spot.  She halter trained her.  Two Spot created the problem that we couldn't keep her around father and we needed to keep him around two more years.  We had to be vigilant to keep him from breeding Two Spot.  I still get reminded that Two Spot went to thecattle sale and my daughter wanted to keep her.

The only problem I see is being committed on a daily basis for caring for the animals.  After being on this farm for 30+ years, somebody always had to be here to feed in the winter and check cows when out on the pastures.  I'm reminded of a family vacation where we got a call that the cows broke our fence and ate the neighbor's sweet corn crop.  My BIL came home and worked on the situation.  He came back to the beach and we got another call.  I had to come home and rebuilt a half mile of fence and in a few weeks delivered several bushels of sweet corn to my neighbor to "mend fences with him".

[TKehl]

The danger is that the calves will get names and get hand fed apples and sweet feed ultimately becoming pets.

Yes!  This!  

When I first got goats, I came home with 7 of them.  Kids and wives wanted to name them after the 7 dwarves.  :  I went out and bought another 8 that afternoon and said, "There, now there are too many to name."  ;D  :D

[Southside]

The ones destined for beef get beef names from the get go. Tri-tip, Slider, Arby, Beef-a-muss, helps keep it in perspective.