The Forestry Forum is sponsored in part by:

iDRY Vacuum Kilns


Forestry Forum
Sponsored by:


TimberKing Sawmills



Toll Free 1-800-582-0470

LogRite Tools



Norwood Industries Inc.




Your source for Portable Sawmills, Edgers, Resaws, Sharpeners, Setters, Bandsaw Blades and Sawmill Parts

EZ Boardwalk Sawmills. More Saw For Less Money!

STIHLDealers.com sponsored by Northeast STIHL


Woodland Sawmills

Peterson Swingmills

 KASCO SharpTech WoodMaxx Blades

Turbosawmill

Sawmill Exchange

Michigan Firewood, your BRUTE FORCE Authorized Dealer

Baker Products

ECHO-Bearcat

iDRY Wood Lumber Vacuum Drying for everyon

Nyle Kiln Dry Systems

Chainsawr, The Worlds Largest Inventory of Chainsaw Parts

Smith Sawmill Service



Author Topic: Phase Converters (single to 3 phase)  (Read 2730 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Woodslabs

  • Full Member x2
  • ***
  • Posts: 134
  • Location: Caledon
  • Gender: Male
  • Check out my wood mill in Toronto
    • Share Post
    • Live edge wood slabs Toronto
Phase Converters (single to 3 phase)
« on: October 10, 2017, 11:14:56 AM »
Hi All,

Recently purchased a 16 HP 240V 3 phase planer.  My shop only has single phase.  I had someone recommend phase perfect but they quoted me $5500 USD.  I only need one machine to run on 3 phase.  I was under the impression that the converter would be cheaper.  Am i looking at the wrong kind or are they really that expensive.

Offline Crusarius

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 3548
  • Age: 43
  • Location: Canadice, New York
  • Gender: Male
  • Lost in....
    • Share Post
    • RockModified.com
Re: Phase Converters (single to 3 phase)
« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2017, 11:41:10 AM »
I purchased a static converter for my mill it was only $70. but that was for a 3 HPO motor. I don't know how well running that unit will work using a static converter but it may be worth looking into. Rotary ones are not cheap. Someone else will have to talk about VFD since I know nothing about them.

Offline Larry

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 6356
  • Age: 72
  • Location: NW Arkansas
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
    • Copas Sawmill
Re: Phase Converters (single to 3 phase)
« Reply #2 on: October 10, 2017, 12:51:03 PM »
Phase Perfect uses a different technology (high dollar) to make a converter.  You would only need one if your running computer controlled stuff. 

A regular rotary phase converter just uses a idler motor, few capacitors, and a relay or two.  Plenty good for a planer.  I could build a turn key job for less than $200 easy.  Store bought big enough might cost a couple of thousand.  Make sure you have enough single phase power for 16 HP, DC, lighting, and HVAC.

A VFD would be too expensive for 16 HP.
Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

Offline woodworker9

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 586
  • Age: 56
  • Location: Northern Illinois
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
    • Elite Concrete Raising Co.
Re: Phase Converters (single to 3 phase)
« Reply #3 on: October 10, 2017, 03:53:19 PM »
Go check out American Rotary's website. 

I have built one of my own, and have purchased two from American Rotary.  The typical rule of thumb is that you will need twice the size rotary phase converter as the size of the machine you will want to start.  That being said, often less is capable.  For instance, I can start a 7.5 hp mill I have with my 10 hp converter, simply by starting my 5 hp table saw first, on the same circuit.  The table saw acts as a booster to the starting capacity of the RPC.

Similarly, I operate a 15 hp 30" planer with a 20 hp CNC balanced RPC.  Once again, I start any 5 hp machine in the shop first, and then start the planer.  Once it's running, everything can be turned off except the planer, and it will run just fine.

No offense to any previous poster, but static phase converters are very hard on motors, especially larger ones.  A static converter runs out of balance, and will ruin a motor much faster, depending on the load.  I wouldn't recommend it for any motor, let alone a 16 hp motor.  The magic blue smoke comes out sooner than you ever want it to.

For a 30 hp converter, you will need a dedicated circuit of 100 amps to power it.  Start up requirements can get up to 140% over rated draw, and you have to account for that so you are not blowing the breaker all the time.  A properly made RPC, like American Rotary, allows for that in their units. 

I don't work there......just a happy customer, several times over.   I run 23 different 3 phase machines in my shop, varying from 3/4 hp up to 15 hp.
03' LT40HD25 Kohler hydraulic w/ accuset
MS 441, MS 290, New Holland L185

Offline Woodslabs

  • Full Member x2
  • ***
  • Posts: 134
  • Location: Caledon
  • Gender: Male
  • Check out my wood mill in Toronto
    • Share Post
    • Live edge wood slabs Toronto
Re: Phase Converters (single to 3 phase)
« Reply #4 on: October 10, 2017, 08:35:28 PM »
I spoke with them today and i think i narrowed one down for around 2k.  I have 135 amps going into my shop and the planer looks to be around a 90 amp breaker. dust extraction will be 22 amps. Lights are all LED.  Does anyone know how to calculate the exact max amps the planer will pull?

so it looks like it will pull around 45 3 phase amps

so 45x 1.73 =  77.9 amps.

Not too bad :)


Offline 4x4American

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 5786
  • Age: 129
  • Location: SE Adirondacks USA
  • Gender: Male
  • Team red, white, blue and orange
    • Share Post
    • Website Link
Re: Phase Converters (single to 3 phase)
« Reply #5 on: October 10, 2017, 09:53:35 PM »
If I'm not mistaken, look at the data tag on the motor, where it says FLA is your answer.  FLA = full load amperage. 
Boy, back in my day..

Offline YellowHammer

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 5686
  • Age: 56
  • Location: New Market, Alabama
  • Gender: Male
  • Take Steps to Save Steps
    • Share Post
    • Hobby Hardwood Alabama
Re: Phase Converters (single to 3 phase)
« Reply #6 on: October 10, 2017, 11:05:12 PM »
Another vote for American Rotary phase converter.
When I bought my Straight Line Rip saw, the seller would not warrant it unless it was powered by American Rotary.
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it wont roll, its not a log; its still a piece of tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not pieces of trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, theyre burned, and you cant fix them.  Dont burn the cookies.

Offline Stuart Caruk

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 498
  • Location: Ridgefield WA USA
  • Gender: Female
  • Woodmizer LX450 DieselStationary timber processing
    • Share Post
Re: Phase Converters (single to 3 phase)
« Reply #7 on: October 10, 2017, 11:43:09 PM »
On the plus side, a planer starts up without a load, so it's a simple matter to build your own phase converter for it. My first one used a 25HP three phase motor, with a single phase kicker and a spare disconnect I had lying around. Total cost was around $125.

I still use it today, and it was built over 25 years ago. My main converter now though is based on a 60 HP 3 phase motor, balanced with caps. It's been running 80KVA rated very high dollar CNC machines for years with zero issues. Cost me $200 +/- to build.

If you have access to 3 phase motors, building a converter is simple, and a rotary converter works way better than an electronic device.
Stuart Caruk
Wood-Mizer LX450 Diesel w/ debarker and home brewed extension, live log deck and outfeed rolls. Woodmizer twin blade edger, Barko 450 log loader, Clark 666 Grapple Skidder w/ 200' of mainline. Bobcats and forklifts.

Offline Morewood

  • member
  • *
  • Posts: 28
  • Age: 61
  • Location: Brunswick ,Ga
  • Gender: Male
  • USMC , 1341
    • Share Post
Re: Phase Converters (single to 3 phase)
« Reply #8 on: November 01, 2017, 10:03:35 PM »
Look into a V.F.D , 
2008 Cooks AC3651 perkins diesel , JD 310C w/forks and thumb , International 8000 Dump truck , 16 ton trailer , and all the accessories .

Offline woodworker9

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 586
  • Age: 56
  • Location: Northern Illinois
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
    • Elite Concrete Raising Co.
Re: Phase Converters (single to 3 phase)
« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2017, 09:27:50 PM »
Look into a V.F.D ,

VFD's are great.  I have 2 machines that I run off of VFD's....my Oliver patternmaker's lathe, and my 2X72 belt grinder.  Both are made more versatile by being able to change speeds easily.  Both machines are under 3 hp..

For a 16 hp motor, however, a VFD would be cost ineffective for creating 3 phase out from single phase input power.  A VFD gets derated by 50% for single phase input control, so a 32 hp VFD would be required........that would be a sizable investment.
03' LT40HD25 Kohler hydraulic w/ accuset
MS 441, MS 290, New Holland L185


Share via delicious Share via digg Share via facebook Share via linkedin Share via pinterest Share via reddit Share via stumble Share via tumblr Share via twitter

xx
3 phase converters

Started by trimguy on General Woodworking

17 Replies
902 Views
Last post September 28, 2020, 01:24:42 AM
by Al_Smith
xx
large three phase converters

Started by forester2009 on Sawmills and Milling

8 Replies
1177 Views
Last post March 07, 2014, 01:21:57 PM
by Larry
xx
LT 15 Single Phase 10 hp?

Started by luke on Sawmills and Milling

20 Replies
4755 Views
Last post September 14, 2003, 06:58:43 PM
by bull
xx
LT 15 Single Phase 10 hp

Started by luke on Sawmills and Milling

12 Replies
2691 Views
Last post August 01, 2003, 11:59:40 AM
by Minnesota_boy
 


Powered by EzPortal