What do we charge$$

[buckhunter]

Fella's,
What are you guys charging for sawing lumber these days. My son has had business cards made up and is ready to do some sawing. We don't know what to charge. do we charge the same for sawing by the foot for 1by's,2by's as we saw do for say 6x6 and up. We are lost and need some guidance. Starting with pine

Thank you

[jdtuttle]

My rate just went from .30 BF to .35 BF. I charge 50 per hour for logs under 12" and anything unusual that takes more time.
Jiim

[JamieT]

 Down here in Alabama i charge .45 per bf up to 8 inches wide, and .50 for anything wider. Use thickness x width x length  divided by 12. Multiply that number by .45 and you have a price per board.

[Tom the Sawyer]

If not doing so already, keep detailed records of board footage, time and expenses.  You should know what it costs to operate your mill before setting your fees.  Some charge by the board foot, some by the hour, others by the job. 

Do a search on the Forum for something like "milling fees" or "bf vs. hourly"  and you will turn up hours of reading on this frequent topic.  Unless you are only milling for yourself (and it still helps to know your costs), every sawyer goes through this decision process. 

Be careful of 'matching' or undercutting your competition.  Their costs may be considerably less than yours and you can go out of business trying to work for the same income with higher expenses.

Check out members' websites.  Some have their fee structures outlined and some have the actual fees they charge.

Some use multiple methods depending on the type of job.  As long as you and your client understand the method of calculating fees, they all can work well.   

[redprospector]

If not doing so already, keep detailed records of board footage, time and expenses.  You should know what it costs to operate your mill before setting your fees.  Some charge by the board foot, some by the hour, others by the job. 

Do a search on the Forum for something like "milling fees" or "bf vs. hourly"  and you will turn up hours of reading on this frequent topic.  Unless you are only milling for yourself (and it still helps to know your costs), every sawyer goes through this decision process. 

Be careful of 'matching' or undercutting your competition.  Their costs may be considerably less than yours and you can go out of business trying to work for the same income with higher expenses.

Check out members' websites.  Some have their fee structures outlined and some have the actual fees they charge.

Some use multiple methods depending on the type of job.  As long as you and your client understand the method of calculating fees, they all can work well.   

Excellent advice!!!
Know your costs. The person you're price matching may not know what it cost to produce lumber, or they may have been trying to under price someone else who was price matching someone else. 
There are a lot of things to consider in coming up with a fair price, with a fair profit margin. Among those are blades, sharpening costs, maintenance of the mill (and other equipment), and don't forget the all important, often neglected, Cost of replacement.

[Chuck White]

Sawing rates depend on where you're located.  Some places charge twice what the average price is in my area.  Here the price for custom sawing ranges from $.15 -- $.175/bf!

Of course there is a difference if you saw logs and then sell the lumber vs just sawing someone elses logs,!

[redprospector]

Sawing rates depend on where you're located.  Some places charge twice what the average price is in my area.  Here the price for custom sawing ranges from $.15 -- $.175/bf!

Of course there is a difference if you saw logs and then sell the lumber vs just sawing someone elses logs,!

That's what I'm trying to say. If the "going rate" is $.15 per bd. ft., and your cost to mill it is $.12 per bd. ft. and you can mill 2500 bd. ft. a day...well you've made a whopping $75 bucks that day. A person has to know their own costs of operation.

[schmism]

You might quote price per hr unless its a large job (your going to be setup for a like a week or more).    You should have an idea of what it costs to run the mill,  and how much money you would like to make a day/week.  so price per hr is an easyer way to make shure everyone is on the same page.   

In other threads like this,  people point out, 
-are they supplying an off loader?   
-Are they supplying log handling equip?   
-Are you sawing 10" and under or a wack of 30".    Are you sawing timber or 1x material.  (the idea that timber/ties make more in price per bdft as there are less cuts for your "finished" product.  less cuts = less time)
-Are you supplying stickers at a cost, or are you sawing stickers for them (per hr? or per bdft)

If you stick to an per hr rate the above issues somewhat go away.    He wants you to saw a wack of stickers, what do you care, your getting paid by the hr.  He said he was going to supply an off loader, but guess what, the guy stands around checking his phone more than pulling material off the saw, so what its still by the hr.

I know many people with stationary setups may saw by bf.  as they know there setup.  They know they will have "their" off loader, or there log handing equip etc.

FYI, I dont have a band mill so i dont have a rate for saw milling.   I do however do small tractor work (33hp CUT) for between 40-$60/hr

[Chuck White]

When I saw stickers I will pick out an 8-foot log and it will become stickers.

For example: If the log will square out to 10x10, I will saw down through, leaving them in a stack, then after I make the last cut, we will tip them up on edge and make the cuts again.

The customer gets charged for twenty 1x10x8 boards.

[Magicman]

You have to know your costs to be able to make a fair profit, but there is also fairness to the customer.

The lumber output from a manual sawmill is very small compared with an automated/hydraulic sawmill.  Is is fair to the customer for them to charge the same hourly rate?  I don't think so.  The customer always needs to get the proper value for his $$$.

[dboyt]

In answer to your question about whether to charge the same no matter what the dimensions, the answer is yes.  A lot of the time spent will be in loading, clamping, etc.  Your expenses with the 13 hp Norwood mill will be pretty minimal, but I don't see how you can make money at $.15/ bd ft.  Assuming you can cut 100 bd ft per hr, deduct $2.50/ hundred bd ft for expenses (blades, fuel, oil, etc.), you're making $12.50/hr.  Deduct taxes & insurance, and you're working your tail off to make minimum wage.  Even at $.40/ bd ft, you're coming out close to $25/hr (after taxes). Figure that for every hour on the mill you'll spend 30 minutes on non-milling activities (sharpening blades, advertising, visiting potential customers, accounting, equipment repair...), and that comes down to about $17/hr.  For two people, figure about a 50% increase in production, so that would be less than $12/hr for both you & your son.  A new chain saw can set you back a week's worth of income!  That's why finding a specialized niche & charging a premium is so important, and why so few people are in the sawmill business.

Best of luck.  Hope you & your son make enough to upgrade to a bigger mill and make a good go of it.

[Joe Hillmann]

You have to know your costs to be able to make a fair profit, but there is also fairness to the customer.

The lumber output from a manual sawmill is very small compared with an automated/hydraulic sawmill.  Is is fair to the customer for them to charge the same hourly rate?  I don't think so.  The customer always needs to get the proper value for his $$$.

I have to agree with Magicman on this.  Over that last two days I and a helper spent about 12 hours(24 man hours total) to saw 600 bdft of pine.  In that case I would have to charge $0.40/bdft to come out not loosing money, $10/hour to pay the helper and $10/per hour to me which I then have to pay for blades and gas and any other expenses which would leave me with nearly nothing. 

That 600/bdft were slower than usual because it was from two logs that were right at the limit of what my mill could cut.  Due to their size we had to load roll them with a tractor which took more time.

If I had smaller logs, say 14-20 inches in diameter and the customer was supplying the helper I could maybe end up earning $20-$25 per hour after expenses by charging $0.40/bdft which it is questionable that I could charge that much and still have customers.

If someone asks me to saw for them I will usually do it if they have only a couple logs but if they have a decent size stack I tell them they would be better off financially and and more consistent boards to find someone with a fully hydraulic woodmizer that charges $60/hour than to have me do it at $30/hour.  Although it appears as if most of the people who used to do it in the area are retired or have other full time jobs and aren't interested in taking custom sawing jobs so two of the people who I have sent else ware have came back and want me to saw for them.

[CalebL]

Sawing rates depend on where you're located.  Some places charge twice what the average price is in my area.  Here the price for custom sawing ranges from $.15 -- $.175/bf!

Of course there is a difference if you saw logs and then sell the lumber vs just sawing someone elses logs,!

$.15?  That's pretty much sawing for free.  My time is worth more than that. 

[Brian C.]

We have a manual mill and have found that charging by the hour works best for us. What time it takes us to mill a job pretty much equals a hydraulic mill that is charging bdft prices. Our hourly charge is $65 here in SE Michigan, and we are getting repeat and word-of-mouth business.

[36 coupe]

Fella's,
What are you guys charging for sawing lumber these days. My son has had business cards made up and is ready to do some sawing. We don't know what to charge. do we charge the same for sawing by the foot for 1by's,2by's as we saw do for say 6x6 and up. We are lost and need some guidance. Starting with pine

Thank you

An hourly rate makes more sense.Before I had a mill I paid 40 cents a foot for hemlock boards so I wont pay that just to have logs sawed.I saw for a few friends, thats all.If you saw 2x8s it takes less time than sawing 1x8s so a BF price is double for that customer.I can buy spruce 2x6 s for 50 cents BF to build picnic tables.I would not do all the work of getting logs out and pay 45 cents to have it sawed, dry it and plane it.

[buckhunter]

A lot of different things to think about. The boy just got his first order for 19 4x4x8 pine, Charged the person 121.60 ($.60ft). He now needs to saw out the rest of what the guy wants to build his deck. for ($.45ft) Deck is a 16x20.
We are going to saw,(pine)
1x's, 2x's @$.45ft
4x's up to 10x's@$.60ft
12x's up to 16x's@$.75ft.
I guess he can adjust from there as needed for hardwoods

[ladylake]

 You can go buy pine at the box stores for about the same price.   Steve

[Magicman]

Yes, you can make a few $$$ selling lumber, but Steve makes a very valid point.  Often, if you have to buy logs, handle, & saw, you are already at a break even or loss situation.

Our niche is often for specialty lumber dimensions that is not readily available. 

The above plus inventory and storage is what got me out of the "lumber selling" business, and 100% into the (portable) sawing business.