The Forestry Forum

First off, this is my first post here, I've been reading here for a bit after inheriting a truck load of old chainsaws from a relative last spring.
I'm slowly going through them to see what's worth keeping, ans what is just parts.

One of the nicer looking saws is a Stihl MS250, the saw looks to have almost no use on it.
I had set it aside at first thinking it had a serious motor issue because I couldn't pull the cord.
Something made me toss it up on the bench the other day to see what ails it.
The thing turns over, but it takes both hands and a foot to pull the rope. Its not seized, its just that hard to turn over. I pulled the plug, and it spins over freely.
I screwed in a compression gauge and got 188 psi. (In comparison, an 036Pro I checked had 166 psi).
It pulls so hard against the compression that I can't believe the recoil string doesn't snap or pull out of the handle.
I had it running, once it fires up it runs strong. But even on a hot restart, its a bear to pull.
I basically am holding the rope in my gloved left hand and dropping the saw with my right to get it to turn over. The handle is too small to get a foot into to try it that way.

Before I pulled the plug, I was really expecting to find it hydro-locked or something but its just that hard to pull.

I somehow can't believe that they built saw that's this hard to pull start?

(My 036Pro pulls easier without using the decomp button).

Are these all this hard to pull?

While I don't have the answer I can tell you that this is a common problem on Stihl's that sit. Because of all the carb. problems I keep about 5 saws on the mill floor that might run when needed. The 0ld faithful 024 and the 028 will pull hard if not started often, the 028 being the worst. I am not young and the 075 becomes impossible for me to pull if not started often. The Husky's [ that I am not crazy about] don't seem to have this problem.

What color is the plug tip? it should be light brown.  Pull the muffler to see if there is a heavy carbon buildup on the piston. With the air filter off try spraying Sea Foam or diesel fuel down the carb throat but don't overdo it. moodnacreek that 075 is a beast on the best of days, I don't have fond memories of them. :D

The 250s are notorious for hard pulling but yours sounds excessively so. I agree with  carbon build up as has been suggested.

Guess I cut in front of Yardiron, anyhow thanks Saw guy and Butch C. Got the seafoam on the shelf.

The spark plug is tan/brown in color, it looks to be burning pretty good. The top of the pistion looks pretty clean using a bore scope. I don't think its got a of use on it.
It fires on the second pull every time, and starts and runs on the third or fourth. Its just that its nearly impossible to pull.
I've got four other Stihl saws here, an 029, 036Pro, 015L, and an MS200T, only the 36Pro pulls this hard and only if I don't use the decomp button.
Once the 250 is running, its fine. Subsequent starts are just as hard.
When I first found this i thought it was seized or 'tight', but once I pulled the plug I realized its all compression.
Ive got one other saw that pulls almost just as hard, and older Husqvarna 266.
I'm 6ft 4in tall with size 17 boots, so putting a foot in the handle area isn't an option, or do I think it would help. With the saw in a vise, I still can barely pull the rope against the compression stroke. The only way I can get it to start is to grasp the recoil handle with a gloved hand and drop the saw with the other. I used the saw on Sat. to cut up some down branches, it runs and cuts good. No smoke, no noises. The piston sides look clean too.

Size 17 boots  :o . It could be nothing more than the starter drum bushing worn or missing causing the drum to run eccentric .It happens 
I had that happen on a Husqvarna 2100 CD and that's 99 cc .I just turned a brass bushing for it on my lathe . 

Maybe you can use this method, at 1:25:
Chapter 9: Starting Your STIHL Chainsaw - YouTube (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=THV_xfFe0i8) op

Geeze I just looked it up on flea bay .Drums are cheap but they are only about 2.75 " .It isn't any wonder they pull hard .I'd about bet my weed wacker has a larger drum . 

I took the recoil apart, I don't see anything wrong in there. The rope is new, 3.5mm black and orange recoil rope off a spool I found on the bench in the back garage.
I tried just turning the motor with a socket and a 3/8" Snap On wrench, about 7" long and its nearly impossible to turn the thing over with a ratchet without the ratchet nearly busting your hand as it snaps over TDC.
There's definitely an issue here with a lack of mechanical advantage when cranking the engine. But it looks like its built into the design?
I've got other homeowner saws, a few I bought new, and none of them have this kind of compression.

As far as bending down to start a saw, with a foot in the handle, that's not happening, I haven' t been able to bend that way in decades and my food simply will not fit into the handle area. If I put it between my legs and tried to pull I'd likely bust my self in the nuts. With a gloved hand, dropping it seems to be the only thing that works and even then it nearly rips my fingers out. I tried swapping the handle out for one for a snow blower but it broke the handle in a couple pulls. Even when it get it to turn over dropping it, I only get the rope to move about half way. The saw usually starts so its not an issue that way.

The thing spins over smooth as butter with the plug out, even with the compression gauge in the hole its tough to spin over, it may have more than the reading I got because I wasn't achieving much RPM during the test.

My 036Pro is hard to start without the decomp depressed but its half as hard as this MS250.
I certainly realize that at my age I'm not what I was at 20 something but I'm also no 90 lb weakling. At 6ft 3in tall and nearly 400 lbs I should easily be able to start an average homeowner saw.
My 029, 036, 036P, all start with ease. They have noticeable compression resistance but they don't cause pain or any issue getting them to turn over.

I can't imagine the average homeowner being able to start this thing if this is how its supposed to be.

I'd say it would be unusual to have that high of compression pressure .I have no idea what could hang it up so I think I'll just watch and see if you find anything .I'm out of ideas . ???

So when that ms 250 was sold new how is it that it was not returned? Something is being overlooked. I wonder how many extra sparkplug gaskets you could get on it. 

I had a MS250 as a "chore" around the house saw for several years. Went to my mill for employees to use to cut ties ends off. Was the only saw the thieves didn't steal when they broke into my tool trailer at the mill. It then cut firewood everyday for another winter until I gifted it to the employee running it. He still uses it around his house. I replaced it with a an 026 that's been to the shop several times and then replaced the 026 with a 261.

The "old 250" was a cheap saw, but a good one. In all that use I never noticed it being hard to pull, When cold it sputtered on the 2nd pull and started on the 3rd. When hot it started with half a pull. Maybe I just got lucky, but it was an excellent saw.

  Just a thought if your saw has a decompression release remove it inspect it and make sure it is releasing the compression when pushed in.

 

Sounds sorta like a rebuild sometime in the past using a wrong piston or connecting rod.

 Hope you can find an answer.The 250 is a great little saw.Much more saw than it's size and price point would lead you to think.I bought one for a backup,brush cutting, limbing saw and have really been pleased with mine.

My curiosity got the best of me so I looked up the IPL which is shared with the 021,023 and 025 .Assuming the MS 250 is in fact an 025 .
At any rate it only showed two pistons,40 and 42 MM .Two crankshafts 28 and 32 MM stroke .One evidently came apart in some strange way because it showed a separate  rod and bearing cluster .The other a standard pressed together crankshaft -rod assembly ,for all intents not repairable .Evidently this assembly being used for the 023 and 025 ,32 MM.
So having rambled on about it unless something else fits in it I don't see how the wrong parts would have gotten in to it .

I don't have an answer for the hard pull but as far as not fitting your boot in the handle try this -put a stick through the handle that's long enough that you can put a foot on each end and then the saw is held so you can pull on it. I guess if you can't bend over this won't help you unless you can kneel down on it.  I read on here somewhere where someone drove the wheel of their machine on one end of the stick. I have a friend in his ninety's that showed me the stick method. Usually my problem with motors is not enough compression.

I don't know if this is even possible .The piston of an 024 being 42 MM might be able to get stuffed in an 025/MS 250 by mistake .It  uses the same pin size ,M 10. 
If so and that did happen the height from pin center to face might be off ,too long  .

When I lost the frock on the old 024 it wiped out the cylinder. Took a cyl. of a newer 024 and  the piston hit the head so [you guessed it] I filed the top of the piston and got Me a high compression 024.  Just something more to consider.

I tried a couple of things today just to be sure the issue isn't something 'wrong' with the saw.
I first removed the muffler completely, tried to pull the rope, and that made no difference.
I then rotated the motor till the piston was up top, then I filled the combustion chamber with sea foam and let it sit all day. My thought was that maybe the piston was clean but there could be some carbon above the piston. After 11 hours of soaking, I dumped out the Sea Foam and it came out almost as clean as it went in.
The spark plug is likely the original, a Bosch WSR6F. After soaking all day, I put some marvel oil in the cylinder and worked it in a bit by hand so it wasn't going to start 'dry' after soaking it with Seafoam.
It still pulls just as hard.
The guy at the Stihl shop told me to buy a recoil handle for a rescue saw but they didn't have one in stock, but I'm thinking it may get in the way on such a small saw?

The saw runs great overall, once its started, its easy to use and has great power. Its got more power than my 029, and its far lighter.
I really don't think this saw has many hours on it. It still looks new, there's no dirt or dust build up and the original bar shows no wear on the sides.

yardiron,
   have you verified the decompression release is relieving  compression or doesn't this saw have this feature? I haven't seen any mention in your posts that this has been checked.  Sorry if I missed it      John

I have rescue saw handles on a souped 038 mag ,Husky 2100 CD and and 084 Stihl .
What the hey ,if that fixes it call it a day .

I have 2 husky 61's that have developed the same problem. I'd like to learn a fix for this problem. Impossible to pull start normally, I have to use the two foot and a stick method too.

I've usually  seen them get easier because the rings wore out .The exception being as if they got harder it was just because I became older .That's better than the alternative I suppose .< play on words . ;)

My little husky 435 got to where I couldn't pull the starter rope anymore and I discovered that the plastic starter pulley  had started to disintegrate one of the tabs that catch the starter pawls on the flywheel. This caused it to bind up somehow.It started out being just harder to pull. After replacing it the saw is now back to a normal starting saw.  Again this is husky. A different design than stihl. 

Well recoils can lead you off 40 ways from  Sunday .The pawls get bent,drums run eccentric even the spring wound so tight you can only get about half a pull . I suppose it could get a large build up of carbon although I've never seen it happen .
I've got some saws I've modified where the piston.head deck clearance was taken from  46 thou to 22 thou and are right at 200 PSI .I'm just a little skinny dude 6 feet tall ,almost 200 pounds with size 11 shoes .Plus I'm nearly 72 years old and I can pull them over with no decomp . I can still bent over and touch my toes so I guess the aging thing hasn't hurt me too bad---so far  8)

It doesn't have a compression release.
I've had the recoil apart twice, I can't find anything wrong with it.
Like I said before, if I take out the plug, the thing spins over freely, no bind in the rope or engine.
The engine has a ton of compression, a peak down the cylinder with one of those usb cameras shows a clean, slightly gray/tan topped piston. The bore is clean with no scratches. The piston is visible through the exhaust port, the sides are clean, no marks.
Adding oil doesn't change it much, so its not a dry cylinder, adding oil does make it harder to pull if you don't crank it out the cylinder before putting the plug back in.

The recoil rope has obviously been changed, none of the saws I saw at the dealer had black with orange ropes but since I have the spool it came from, and is recoil rope in 3.5mm, I can only assume the original rope broke at some point. The black and orange rope is marked 'Spectra' and Guaranteed Unbreakable. Its got a Stihl part tag on it but no number. I'm guessing my uncle bought it from what ever dealer he was buying from. Likely a JD dealer since he also had several green machines. It feels like normal rope but its black.

If you can manage to yank the rope three times, it starts and runs great, the thing idles perfect, and cuts great. I have used the saw, I like how it handles and feels but I really don't care to deal with a saw that's this painful to start. I can go down to any big box store and pickup a $200 saw to take its place that won't give me this much grief. But in reality, I don't 'need' any of these saws, but since they were free, (inherited), I've sort of added them to my pile of old saws. I just figured that having something newer would be nice rather than running something heavy and 40 years old every time I need to cut wood. I have my 029, and my 036, the 029 is great, its never given me an ounce of trouble after 20+ years. I bought that one new myself. It starts easy, runs great and gets the job done but its a bit heavy for just light yard work. The same for the 036P, its a great saw, much lighter than the 029 but its got a 24" bar and is more for dropping trees than cutting up limbs. The 250 would have made a good small saw to add to my own collection here but if this is as good as it gets, its likely going to sit on the shelf or find a new home. I'll keep using my old Homelite. 

Going by what moodnacreek said... Perhaps you could take a little off the top of the piston. You don't like using it now, so the worst that'll happen is you still won't like using it, but you could end up with a saw you really enjoy.

This exactly describes my issue with the MS310. EXACTLY! A few days ago I started thinking about maybe it being, as was suggested here, the coil advance being bad. Inspection showed some scratch marks on the flywheel. The coil center post ws at a proper gap, but the 'tail' on the coil appered to be dragging on that high part of the flywheel. Reset the coil airgap to .oo8" and IT STARTED! Was MUCH easier to pull! But it ran really, really bad. Reset the airgap to .006" at the coil pick up and .008 at the coil 'leg' and it's back to it's not-being-able-to-pull-the-rope again tricks. Might have a chance this weekend to fuss with it. Will reset airgap to something else and see if it clears things up. For your saw....maybe verify the airgap and look at possible drag marks on the flywheel...

Something that was bugging me about something someone said here made me take the recoil back off last night. Someone referred to the recoil 'pawls'. This thing only has one pawl and while there's two holes, the clip that guides the pawl has only one slot?

There's also only 5 notches in the cup it engages, having a second pawl wouldn't matter since it wouldn't align with an opposite notch.

I pulled the muffler again, the dealer kept telling me maybe the crankcase was full of oil, he said to turn the crank by hand till the skirt cleared the port and hang the saw by the handle over night over a pan??
I did that, nothing came out. He also said to make sure the honeycomb wasn't blocked in the exhaust.
This saw has a one piece muffler, it comes off as a unit, not in parts like the larger saws. He said some of these had a ceramic honeycomb in the muffler much like the catalytic converter on a car. Mine has that type of muffler. But, I can freely blow air through the muffler, and it doesn't turn any easier with the muffler removed.

The one thing I did notice is that I can turn the saw backwards past TDC fairly easy, but not forward?
Right now the carb and muffler are off, so the there's nothing restricting it at all. In the direction it runs, if I turn the engine over, from the point the rings clear the exhaust port, it gets nearly impossible to turn unless the plug is out.
Now, if I rotated it in reverse, again to the same point, I can turn it past TDC with my hand simply on the flywheel.
While I realize there's timing issues with the ports and all, in either direction the piston is still compressing the same volume of air once its above the open ports. Yet in reverse, it turns with normal effort, yet forward, I need to use a breaker bar. With the plug out, it spins freely in either direction.

I realize too that as a motor breaks in, it likely can gain some compression, but this thing doesn't look like its reached its full break in point yet as there's no pattern showing on the piston or cylinder yet. If its going to gain even more compression, I can't imagine how much it'll need to pull the rope.

Something I notice is that when turning it by hand against the compression, it seems to have 'zero loss'. On most engines, as you hold it against the compression stroke, it will slowly dissipate pressure from natural losses past the rings, but this never does. What ever air is trapped above the ports stays there, if I lock it at TDC, leave it sit there for an hour, when I come back and loosen the spark plug it still under pressure. I don't know if this tells me anything but its something I couldn't help but notice so I had to check to see how long it held pressure. With this in mind, I don't see how it can ever be improved short of it losing some compression.
With the piston all the way down, I can see clearly to the top of the combustion chamber and its spot clean, no carbon at all. The top of the piston is the same way, with only minimal coloration from being run.


There are no drag marks on the flywheel, the coil isn't dragging, the motor spins nice and free with the plug out. I've even removed the coil to eliminate any magnetic effect but the resistance isn't coming from the coil, its coming from compression.

Like I said before, the saw runs great, if you can manage to pull the rope.
Its pretty much impossible to do without a glove on, my bare hand cannot grip the handle tight enough to pull the thing.
Even if I get it past the first TDC, the second one hits my wrist like a ton of bricks and stops the rotation.

Something I did notice is that it don't take much to make the rope hard to pull.
with the muffler and carb still off, the ignition coil pulled back, and the plug out, if I put my finger over the plug hole, even lightly, the compression becomes pretty severe and the rope gets hard to pull. Although I can't hold back the compression with my finger, my finger over the plug hole is enough to make the rope hard to pull?

I've tried another recoil assembly, the dealer gave me one he had laying under the bench. Its no different than the original recoil.

I retested the compression with the carb and exhaust off, with some light oil lubing the cylinder up shot in from the sides.
If I clamp the saw to the bench and pull the rope with a gloved hand I get between 200 and 245 psi.

How much compression is normal? They all can't be like this, they wouldn't have sold so many of these.

I'm getting close to just putting it together and selling it, let someone else deal with it.
After all, it runs great if you can get past the pain of starting it.

This saw reminds me of an old Husky 500 dirt bike I had years ago, the former owner raced it professionally so they had the base of the cylinder or block machined to increase compression and a ton of other mods done. The only way to start it was to tow it behind a truck and simultaneously pop the clutch and jump on the seat to get the engine to start, but once it fired, it was a monster. The thing had so much compression that even my then 280 lb weight wouldn't budge the kick-starter.
We had an old mail jeep on the farm back then and we would us it to tow the bike down the road. It would not start on dirt, and a lighter rider couldn't get enough traction to start it even in high gear.
It was fun for a while but if it died out in the woods, it wasn't much fun getting towed home or to the nearest road where someone could tow start you again.
It was fun to ride, downright scary to some but you didn't dare stall the thing if you didn't have a vehicle to tow start it with.
The guy who had it before had some sort of power starter they used at the track, that wasn't in my budget back then so we used a Jeep.

I'm wondering if the ring is a few thousandths over.  Maybe file a few strokes off each end of the gap.

If the rings didn't close you'd never get the piston  in the bore .If the cylinder had taper it would hang with the plug out .
On the brighter side if it was the wrong piston  this might be earth shattering because they've tried forever to soup those clam shell Stihls without much success .Tried every thing like welding the top of the pistons .Helped until the piston flew apart  .A sacrifice to the "piston Gods" perhaps< credit to Burt Munro ."worlds fastest Indian ". :)

When you turn the saw over without the  muffler or carb on it, but with the plug installed, where does it start to get extremely hard to pull the rope in relation to the piston stroke?  And does it pull just as hard on the power stroke as it does on the compression stroke?

Quote from: 421Altered on December 12, 2019, 05:28:09 PM
When you turn the saw over without the  muffler or carb on it, but with the plug installed, where does it start to get extremely hard to pull the rope in relation to the piston stroke?  And does it pull just as hard on the power stroke as it does on the compression stroke?

It gets hard to turn as soon as the rings clear the ports, but only in the running direction. If I turn the thing back, it rotates past top dead center fairly easily.
I would think that at low speed, trapped air would be trapped air in either direction but there's a huge difference in pressure in either direction.
Ring gap may be something to look at because it never looses any pressure once its pushing against the compressed air in the chamber. Not ever, it holds that pressure for hours.
I've never seen a motor that wouldn't leak that pressure past the rings or somewhere if it sat at TDC for any length of time. I'm thinking maybe its a matter of the rings being just gummed up enough from sitting that it's sealed them perfectly to the piston? Or else, they got really lucky with the piston and ring fit and sealing to the cylinder walls.

When I thought more about it, the simple fact that the steel ring to cylinder wall seal being that perfect is almost impossible but I've tried locking it at TDC five times now, each time leaving it sit for several hours, (7 hours today), and each time I could hear air venting as I loosened the spark plug.
I would have thought however, that since I've soaked the combustion chamber with both Seafoam, carb cleaner, and marvel oil, that if it were any build up of old oil or fuel causing this I would have at least removed some of it. Physically looking at the piston or rings though they look new with absolutely no patter or wear showing and only minor signs of combustion atop the piston itself.
Considering this is a cheap saw, I'm not likely going to tear the motor out and break it down, I'm leaning toward just putting it together and passing it on to someone younger with stronger hands. After all, it does run very well if you can manage to pull the rope.
Another thought, if the rings were too tight, not enough end gap, then it would get better with use not worse. If the rings were too tight, it would also likely seize once it warmed up as they expanded. The super high compression doesn't seem to change with engine temperature.
I've run this saw for hours and it does fine, (I just let it run the whole time to avoid dealing with starting it).
An old timer I talked to who used to work on old two stroke bikes tells me that timing could have something to do with it? He said that on old race bikes, those with big single cylinders, if the timing was too retarded, the engine would be hard to turn over in that the combustion in the cylinder happened later forcing more air to have to be compressed than if it had already begun to burn the fuel mix a bit earlier. That makes sense to a degree but it doesn't explain two things here, one, this turns hard without any ignition applied, and no fuel. (It gets worse when there's fuel present). Two, it doesn't exhibit any signs of a motor out of time otherwise.
One thing that I can't explain is why it turns so much easier in reverse than in the direction of run. With no induced flow of air, it shouldn't affect how much air is being trapped in the combustion chamber in either direction. At speed, with vacuum present due to a retracting piston, I can understand why direction would be important but being turned slowly by hand, it should feel the same either way.
If I bring it to TDC in reverse, I can leave it at TDC without the spring effect of the compressed air, and there's minimal air being compressed, but in forward, I need to clamp the wrench I'm using to hold it at TDC. I simply can't imagine why this is the case here.
For comparison, I did the same thing with another motor I have here, an old 2 stroke string trimmer motor, and direction of rotation does no affect the compression at low speed.

I can't help but recall that many two strokes will run in either direction, (think old golf carts and such), so the fact that the compression is so much lower in reverse has me puzzled here.

yardiron,  I think I can explain something, not sure, but here goes.  The reason it is easier to spin in reverse, or clockwise, is the fact that any engine has what's called piston rock.  It has to do with the way the crank throw pushes the rod, and where the piston pin is placed in the piston.  I think, out on a limb here, but, i think the rings are "digging into" the cylinder walls.  Why, I don't know.  Could be any number of reasons.  I know you said that you were not going to do much more work to it, but, if I wanted to keep a saw that's otherwise healthy, you could pull it apart, and really examine the rings, piston grooves, and measure them for spec.  Then hone the cylinder and rebuild the saw.  Or get another piston and cylinder and make sure the problem is gone.

Quote from: 421Altered on December 12, 2019, 07:58:10 PM
yardiron,  I think I can explain something, not sure, but here goes.  The reason it is easier to spin in reverse, or clockwise, is the fact that any engine has what's called piston rock.  It has to do with the way the crank throw pushes the rod, and where the piston pin is placed in the piston.  I think, out on a limb here, but, i think the rings are "digging into" the cylinder walls.  Why, I don't know.  Could be any number of reasons.  I know you said that you were not going to do much more work to it, but, if I wanted to keep a saw that's otherwise healthy, you could pull it apart, and really examine the rings, piston grooves, and measure them for spec.  Then hone the cylinder and rebuild the saw.  Or get another piston and cylinder and make sure the problem is gone.

I don't think that's at all what's going on here. We're talking about a motor that's likely not even fully broken in yet, let alone one with any piston rock.
There is no detectable side rock or movement the piston whatsoever. If there was an issue with piston rock I likely wouldn't have so much compression either. A piston that could rock or move also wouldn't likely be holding pressure in the combustion chamber over several hours, if not longer.
If there was any sort of out of tolerance piston rock, there would also be some other sign of wear. The cylinder has no wear pattern yet, the piston skirts look untouched, and the rings show no sign of wear at all.
I just tried something I hadn't attempted before, now that the carb and muffler are both off at the same time, I attempted to spin the motor at a slightly faster speed than just a few short pulls with the rope to test compression. With a 1" drill and a socket, I tried to spin the thing that way, all it does is unscrew the flywheel nut. So I made up a temporary washer with fingers to engage four of the fins at the same time with a set screw to prevent the nut from loosening. I made this from steel plate.
I was able to turn the motor, (with some marvel oil shot on the sides of the piston first), at 500 rpm with the compression gauge in place. I was shocked when it shot right up to 210 psi and peaked at 236 psi. By hand I barely hit the 200 mark with lots of effort and a gloved hand, but that was with the carb and exhaust on and not being able to get more than a couple of revolutions per pull by hand.

common on the 250 very good saw for the price but will take your arm  off starting. 

i would try a different coil and see if it helps.

That is my thought too, the timing may not be retarding for starting. Have you tried it with the switch off or coil removed?

What name brand of mix oil do you use, and what is the mix ratio?

Quote from: sawguy21 on December 13, 2019, 11:57:52 AM
That is my thought too, the timing may not be retarding for starting. Have you tried it with the switch off or coil removed?

I had the coil off the saw twice to try it, it makes no difference.

Quote from: 421Altered on December 13, 2019, 12:32:16 PM
What name brand of mix oil do you use, and what is the mix ratio?

I've been using the Stihl HP Ultra oil I found with the saw. I've been using one 2.6 oz bottle per gallon, should be roughly 50:1.
I also have a few cans of pre-mixed fuel by VP I picked up too that are marked 40:1. I didn't figure either one would hurt it.
For my compression tests, I've been keeping the cylinder lightly oiled with Marvel oil in a small squirt can so as not to get it into the combustion chamber.
This isn't and doesn't look like a saw that's been abused, it looks like a brand new saw inside and out. Its new enough to be identical to those on the shelf at the dealer today.

I am out of idea's on what may be wrong with it.  But, if it were mine, I would try changing the way I start it.   Leave the ignition switch off, pull it, then dribble some mixed gas onto the air filter, then with ignition on, give it a mighty pull.  It will still be hard to pull, but maybe less times.  The way it sounds, even one less pull would be worth it.  And as other's have said, put a Stihl ms460 rescue saw D handle on that killer.

Did what most recommend to not do...used a shot of Easy-Start (ether) on the MS310. It just would NOT 'hit'. Well, it started and ran super great. Happy camper. That was last night. Took it out today and used it quite a bit. It started right up as a normal saw should. Every time!
Again, I looked at the coil air gap and set it to .006 at the coil pickup and .008 at the shoe end. (the part that appeared to be dragging the flywheel.) as for it not sparking the fuel...no idea or guess at an explanation. But...it works great now and I am very, very happy to have my go-to partner back helping me out.
Not to hyjack this post, but meant as maybe something to consider about that air gap thing....

Mine is definitely not an ignition or air gap problem. It starts and runs perfect if you can manage to pull the rope and not rip out any knuckles or fingers.
I put a bicycle hanging hook in a fence post outback, I've been using that and a heavy glove to start it.
We had a lot of rain and wind over night, and a huge chunk of one of my maple trees came down in the back yard. I was out there for four hours today cutting it up, with the MS250, but I left it running as much as I could. I only shut it off for refueling and once to clear the work area a bit. It cuts great, runs strong but starting it is just painful.

A buddy stopped by after I was almost done, the saw was warm and had been running for a good half hour straight. He owns a tree business and uses saws everyday. He starts telling me I should by a pro saw, not the whimpy thing I'm using here. I shut the saw off and hand it to him. I reposition the ladder to make a few last cuts to clean up the broken stump on the tree, I ask him to start it and hand me the MS250. He grabs the saw and tries to give it a quick yank and the recoil handle slips out of his grip. He then goes for a drop start and only gets it to turn about half a rotation before letting go of the rope. He looks at me and asks if its been run out of oil or something, I said I've been using it all day, it runs fine, just start it. After a couple more tries he does the step on the handle thing and uses one of my gloves for grip and gets it going. When I was done, I shut it off and handed it down to him. He tells me I hope your done, I'm not starting that dam thing again.

He's in his early to mid thirties, and does this for a living. He's as athletic as I am fat and old and he thought its too hard to pull. I'm just glad its not me. He swears up and down someone must have done something to it to give it that much compression but I highly doubt it. Other than making a special taller piston, I can't see any other way to raise the compression that much. I think its more a matter of the rings making a 'too perfect' seal. For now I'll leave it sit, use it when I have to and maybe find something else to replace it with.

I apologize if I missed it and it has already been mentioned.

But, make sure the flywheel key hasn't sheared.

I had an 066 that would jerk your arm off. Turned out it had sheared the key and advanced some more than the 25 degrees before top dead center or so that is stock. I didn't use a degree wheel or anything to check it, but it was bear to get it over. Ran great if you could get it started.

I look forward to the weekends when i get to run my saws cutting hardwood logs, firewood, or taking out a problem tree for someone. If you dread trying to start that 025, send it down the road to a new home and get a saw that fits your needs without making you dread using it.

Quote from: Pine Ridge on December 15, 2019, 11:47:10 AM
I look forward to the weekends when i get to run my saws cutting hardwood logs, firewood, or taking out a problem tree for someone. If you dread trying to start that 025, send it down the road to a new home and get a saw that fits your needs without making you dread using it.

I agree with  Pine Ridge, send it down the road. I put my HARD pulling MS250 in the yard sale pile and bought an MS241 C-M which has been a pleasure to operate. Later added an MS261 C-M which completes my saw buying for this lifetime. Unless, of course, the battery saw revolution sucks me in... ::)...Scott B.

A sheared flywheel key would not make it hard to turn over even with a bar and socket.

I agree on sending it down the road but who would buy it like this. If a pro tree guy thinks its a bear to pull, its not likely the average guy would want it. I wouldn't get anywhere near the $300 these go for new. I'd be lucky to get $20 for it.  I'm better off just putting it on the shelf in the garage to look at rather than giving it away. At least its there if I need it that way. Even though I didn't buy it new, I still see this as a new saw since its in such perfect shape and appears to have had such little use. I'd venture to guess nearly all the cutting done with this so far has been by me. I highly doubt my 75 year old uncle used this very much with the way it pulls. (I found the receipt for the saw, he paid $329.99 plus tax for it at a local farm dealer in November of 2014). It seems they came down in price since then because the local ACE hardware near me here sells these for $299.99 new in the box with a 16" bar.

I don't need to buy anything else, I've got plenty of saws, I can always go back to my old Homelite EZ with manual oiling. Its been around since the 60's or so and still runs great.
I've also got an 036 Pro, a pair of 029 Farm Boss', an MS200T, and a dozen others that came from the same place. None of them pull as hard as this MS250.

Don't give up on it!  It's young, has no signs of heavy use, and it's not a big saw. It's not supposed to bethat hard to pull. 

Seems like you've been through all the possible culprits, but there's something causing the problem. But what?  You just can't let a mechanical assembly defeat you!

(Easy for me to say. . .  :D )

I had an MS880 like that.  Hurt me a few times.  A beast to start but after using it for milling for a while it actually got easier.  I know what you are talking about.  I rigged up a rope on a pulley above to start it.  It would kick back when trying to start it.

I would have to pull the jug, measure the piston, and verify that it is correct for that saw.

I've got a buddy with an 088 on a Logosol chainsaw mill, that saw pulls hard but its more a kickback issue then hard pull. You just have to get it up to the compression stroke and give it a good strong, quick pull. The 088 tends to kick back, the 250 is just hard to pull past TDC. The 088 may be harder to pull but the recoil has a bigger mechanical advantage over the engine compression.  

With that said, I went looking to see what other pistons would fit into a 42.5mm bore and something I noticed that made me take a second look is that all the pictures of MS250 pistons show a flat top piston?
I know I'm going only by internet pics but I don't see any dome shape at all on the pistons listed for sale that fit the 025, 230 and 250 saws.

The piston in my saw has a dome shaped top. The entire top of the piston top is convex shaped and the curve starts at the edge of the piston and is uniform across the top.
Not having another one to compare it to, I just figured that was normal. Did they use more than one style piston in these? If its not the right piston, what could it be out of?

Interesting .I would have assumed a flat top .Factory hemi dome the only one I'm aware of is the 038 AV which also has an off set chamber .I suppose there might have been other models though .--the plot thickens ---

 You can bet that domed piston is not stock and that's where all the compression is coming from.  Steve

A couple things come to mind.How long is the starting rope?If the rope is short you may loose mechanical leverage.How about the rope spool? It may have a crack in it allowing the rope to bind inside the spool causing a possible hard starting issue.Is the rope the proper diameter?To narrow a rope will allow the rope to bind inside the spool. How much did you spend for your compression tester? I would check it with other equipment.Ignition timing.If it is advanced it can be a real bear to start.All the other bases seem to have been covered. I would like to see what a Stihl dealer would say.If you have not yet done it pull the muffler and see what's inside.

I don't know where you would find the right sized diameter piston with enough meat on it carve out a hemi domed piston .Much to many peoples dismay the raised center domed pistons by themselves cut from a stock piston do not raise the compression .On a clam shell with no easy way to lower the head deck clearance it would lower the compression .
Again nothing is impossible,somebody might have found something that would work .Problem is it works too good .

Then comes the problem if it was a custom design hemi dome piston .How would they cut it ,CNC maybe ? I could do it because I have a radius cutter that will cut concave and convex but it would be a bear to set up .Instead of measure twice cut once it would be measure 6 dozen times with all kinds of dial indicators  etc .Take a month of Sundays for me .----geeze i think it would be easier to fly to the moon than solve this big mystery . :D   

It is interesting that somebody would put that effort in to a MS250.  Might have just been a case of curiosity.

Of course, those clam shells will outlast most any average saw owner if they are taken care of.

I'm of the opinion that if there was much wrong it would have flown apart already.

I'm with you  because myself  I wouldn't put that much effort in a clam shell .They cut wood,and for all intents do a good job at it but they are not hot rods .For some unknown reason some think they can be --bless their hearts  .

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHq8p-I2Fuw


 Here's a clamshell the cuts pretty good.  Steve

The top of the piston doesn't look 'machined' its more of a flat gray glass beaded look. Just by looking through the plug hole and through the exhaust port, I can get a pretty good look at it.
The dome of the piston is the whole top of the piston, it starts from the sides and rises up about 1.5mm in the center above the height of the edges.
The skirt of the piston also looks different from those pictured online. The piston skirts are longer and extend about 1/4" below the pin boss.

The thing I'm having an issue with here is that I just can't imagine my uncle messing with this thing, he was well into his 70's when he bought it and he was the type of guy who didn't fix anything, he replaced it. Of course, he never got rid of anything either, it just got put on shelf or parked in the garage or barn.
I have the oem box and owners manual for the saw, it was all right next to the saw.
Of course, the recoil rope is not factory, its been changed to 3.5mm black string. (I measure 29 1/4" out of the saw with the rope pulled all the way out).

If someone messed with this , it was likely before he bought it but again, I've got the original receipt in the box for one MS250 saw, one Stihl 0000 901-4007 case, two chains, 1 gallon Stihl  0781 516 5005 bar oil, and a case of Stihl 2 stroke oil.
I have accounted for everything on the list, all still on the shelf, minus half of one bottle of 2 stroke oil.
I've run about five tanks of fuel through this thing myself so far, when I found it it had almost no signs of use.

Dumb question, I'm assuming this is an MS250 going by the emblem on the recoil cover.
There are no other decals other than safety warning labels. Could this maybe be a different model with the recoil off a 250? In other words, did any other models use the same plastic and recoil?

Check your PM

Is that thing a clam shell or a removable cylinder ?Is the rear handle white or orange ?

Orange handle.
The motor appears to be all one piece with only a removable bottom cap.
Just like the one's sold in the saw kits online for the MS250.

I've looked at other MS250's at the hardware store here and this sure looks like one of them.

Most have strong compression and are difficult to pull but nothing like this thing.

I put it up online for sale, I listed it for $350 or best offer, got an offer of $275, haven't answered it yet.
I listed it has having very little use but has too much compression for my old self to use, with several pics.
I'm not including the case, figuring it'll fit what ever I buy next. I'll just include what came with the saw in the original box.

I tried fitting my 029 in the case from the 250 but it won't fit, it hits the top of the saw. So this case is limited to smaller saws.
I'm wondering if an 026 would fit or do they share size with the o29?
The case is definitely limited to an 18" bar, and a saw no taller than the MS250
Its a factory steel case, all one piece, no removable scabbard like the one's they sell now. It fits the 250 like a glove.
(I can't believe the hardware store is getting $120 for just he case). When I bought my 029, in 1996, the case was only $25 extra.

Has anybody thought of the possibility this could be a Chinese copy ?

Call stihl usa and give them the serial number, they can tell you what it is if its a stihl.

I did some internet surfing on this thing .The real Stihl corporation warns about Chinese knock offs .It just seems very odd the saw in question would have a hemi domed piston .It might be interesting if the bore could be measured by using a measuring device through the exhaust port .If that measurement is not in line with the real MS 250 that would tell the tale .What would be really bad is if somebody thought they were getting the real deal only to find out it's a copy cat .If it were me I'd check it out before I sold it as the real McCoy .-----just saying --- more> 

For several years many saw related forums have had discussions of Chinese knock offs .Most are slightly different with regards to components .Yet at the same time the internet is almost over loaded selling the things and the parts. For example they sell recoils that say for example Stihl MS 250 as a replacement part for a real one .It would only make sense a real recoil would then fit on a phony .As such it would be very easy to pull a fast one  with a phony saw and a real cover and pull the wool over somebodies  eyes who thought they were getting a good deal .Boy oh boy does that make them snort when that happens .

I suppose anything is possible, but I did find a receipt for this from a Stihl dealer, along with a factory box and Stihl paperwork still in the box.

I suppose I can't swear to the fact that its the saw that came from that box but I didn't find any others there that could have either. Its the only Stihl saw in the lot other than maybe the 200T that's newer than 20 years old.
My uncle didn't use the internet, he never owned a computer.
Where is the serial number on one of these?

Going on nothing but using the back end of a digital caliper, the cylinder appears to be 42.5mm measuring across the bore through the exhaust port. Its likely not an exact measurement but it looks normal.

All of this is making me think I'm better off just selling it and forgetting about it.

From your prior question the 026 is a different animal.  The crankcase is split down the middle and the cylinder is a separate . Considered a professional design customarily.

I think the MS250 is the largest displacement version that runs like MS170, MS180, MS230 , or 017, 023, 025 .
Those will interchange without a lot of effort.

Not sure where a MS280 fits in with all of that. But, an 029, MS310, 039 , MS 390 are larger.

Yardiron, Please dont give up now. You came to the FF and several have given good ideas and you have done an excellent job following up on all the leads very well. You are now down to just tearing it down and checking the piston and whatever else. These saws are so easy to work on less than an hour and its apart. Really  I have followed so many threads that seem to never have a outcome.  An answer or solution to this may just help others down the road someday. Please give it another round. We are all behind you on this. Wish you lived next door I'd help you   Jack

On the clam shells,which are not my favorite  in the Stihl lineup .If it is a real Stihl it will be a good product .They don't build junk .My only experience is both the 029 and 039 which did just fine except in professional use.tree service   .My neighbor bought a used  250 from a dealer and quite frankly it did not impress me .Keeping  in mind my "fleet " is all pro models of that brand .But that said it was a very good fire wood  cutter which it was designed for .If they were all oak slayers nobody could afford them .

While I was at the local Stihl dealership recently a gentleman came in looking for a saw in the 45cc range. The owner recommended the MS251 over the MS250 saying that although the 250 was a great  saw it was sometimes known to be a tough saw to pull through. He also said that Stihl was aware of this problem and never did come up with a solution for it. I don`t know how true this is, just repeating what I heard.

I suspect as several have pointed out in this thread, you are using the same diameter starter pulley as the MS170. And, you have the "gear" ratio versus the displacement getting away from you.

I've given this a lot of thought here. Basically I'm dealing with a $300 saw that doesn't suit me. There are issues with the size of the recoil which makes this hard to pull, there are issues with it having excess compression, (which may or may not be totally a bad thing), and I can't help but notice its not the best oiling saw I've ever run.

As it sits now, its a complete running saw. If I tear it apart, it'll cost me money I will never get back. If I leave it alone, I have a saw that works and cuts and does very well for limbing and cutting small stuff. Its just a bear to pull start.

I thought about just buying it an aftermarket cylinder and piston, but I can't justify spending that money on a saw that runs, and runs fine at that.

My only decision I think at this point is whether to keep it around and deal with how hard it is to start, or to take one of several offers I have for it from the ad I put up. It seems there's no shortage of interest in these used, even for nearly as much as a new saw.
I'm leaning towards selling this one and using the money to fix up a few of the other saws in the lot here. I don't think I'll get anywhere near the $275 I've been offered for it if I continue to use it and let it get older. If someone feels the compression is not an issue, so be it, let them deal with it and I'll move on to something that can be started without causing pain. 

A few minutes after my last post I spoke with the guy who made me the offer on the MS250, I made it very clear to him why I was selling it, and he seemed to want it even more.
Not more than 10 minutes after talking to him he was at my door with cash. He seemed to think that the ultra high compression was a great thing, and being a small guy, he had no problem bending over with a foot in the saw handle to start it. I mentioned the dome piston and he rattled off a slew of brands it could be. He brought his own can of fuel (and test ran it on my porch at 11pm), he shut it right off and handed me the cash and was on his way. He didn't even want the original cardboard box or papers. I also still have the orange plastic case, assorted tools and a few of the spare chains for it, I gave him one spare chain, but he said he's likely going to put a smaller bar on it anyhow.

As much as I hate giving up on anything, the way I see it is I got $25 short of what a brand new MS250 would cost me if I was so inclined to just go buy another one.
Since I don't need another saw, I'll just pocket the cash and use it towards something else.
I think I'd likely stay away from the consumer line of saws, although I can't knock my 029 Farm Boss I've had for years. But it don't hold a candle to the lighter and more powerful 036 Pro saws I have. Two were mine from new, two were from my uncle's collection of saws.

The MS250 just seemed to fill a gap between my 020 and MS200T and my 029.

Seems like a good ending.  Maybe that saw is just hard to pull.  It's found a good home.  And you got decent money for it.  All good.

I'd say you must be a top notch sales person . :D

All I did was snap a pic and list it online for $300 obo. The buyer made the offer and when I didn't reply right away he kept emailing till I did. I told him where I got it, and that it was crazy hard to pull. He said he saw it as a new saw that was already broken in. It didn't hurt that it looked new as well either.
 

In these parts they would want to trade you a broken down shot gun or a half blind coon hound .Maybe a set of tires that don't fit anything made  after 1972 ,half tread and rusty rims included for no extra charge .

I get my share of that here as well. I listed a snow plow off my old truck last month, I got 40 emails on it, only two actually showed up to see it, and the first guy wanted to make a trade. He had a couple hundred dollars in hand towards a $1200 plow set up, and an ugly wife with no teeth, a three legged dog, and truck with fake tags (think cardboard tag made up by hand), wth no back window and no tailgate. He wanted to know if we could work out a trade, and he kept telling me telling me his wife did all his 'negotiating' when he was out of money.
I couldn't get him out of here fast enough.

The next day another guy who showed up here also showed up short on cash even after we agreed on a price over the phone. He goes out to the car that's following him, picks up a cell phone and calls two of his ex wives, who both show up almost an hour later and give him cash.

All of this is while his 5 young kids and two dogs are running wild all over the neighborhood at almost 11pm at night while he then waited for his exes to go to an ATM and bring him cash. By the time he came up with all the money he had his current 'wife', and two exes all here parked out front arguing with each other while he loaded up the plow. (When he first called he was supposed to get here around 3pm, he didn't show up till about 10pm). After seeing the condition of the cars they were all driving, I understood why they didn't want to be seen during the daylight. No tags, missing windows, lots of duct tape, and broken headlights.

Before they left, he asked if he could use my garden hose because some of the vehicles were out of water. He spend 20 minutes refilling radiators before they finally left. The whole lot of them smelled of marijuana and booze. All three cars that were with him were full of kids and dogs. (When he showed up, he was driving an old pickup, but his 'wife' was driving in a separate vehicle, an old S10 blazer). The other two had older cars in even worse shape, an old Dodge that was billowing blue smoke the whole time and both women were screaming at their kids the whole time. I'm sure the neighbors here loved all the commotion at 11pm. To top it all off it was raining the whole time and near freezing outside.

In the end he did pay me cash for the thing and I got my asking price but I spent an hour afterwards hosing down the oil and antifreeze his truck leaked on the driveway and a half hour the next morning sweeping up cigarette butts, fast food wrappers, soda cups, and other trash  off the street and sidewalk where each of the other cars were parked, and one neighbor complained that two of the dogs left packages on his front step. As they pulled away they were hollering trying to gather up all their dogs and kids.

That was an ad on CL, the saw sold on one of the phone apps, (offer up). I find that using any of several phone based apps gets me more serious buyers and less of what i got selling the plow. Facebook and CL are a crap shoot lately, they seem to bring out some very entertaining folks and a ton of scammers.

 :D :D That sounds like a tv script, could be worth something.

The "new" Stihl MS250 owner will probably join the FF and ask questions about why his "new to him" Stihl MS250 is hard to pull.  :D

Geeze Yardiron... Getting scrap value for the plow would be a better deal than dealing with those yahoos...  :^D


I've never sold on CL, but I have a big fat 0 trying to buy anything off it. I've yet to get a return message on the handful of inquiries I've made. People are flakes...

"Before they left, he asked if he could use my garden hose because some of the vehicles were out of water. He spend 20 minutes refilling radiators before they finally left. The whole lot of them smelled of marijuana and booze. All three cars that were with him were full of kids and dogs. (When he showed up, he was driving an old pickup, but his 'wife' was driving in a separate vehicle, an old S10 blazer). The other two had older cars in even worse shape, an old Dodge that was billowing blue smoke the whole time and both women were screaming at their kids the whole time. I'm sure the neighbors here loved all the commotion at 11pm. To top it all off it was raining the whole time and near freezing outside"

Were they all wearing "Make America Great Again" hats?

Quote from: donbj on December 21, 2019, 08:16:38 PM
"Before they left, he asked if he could use my garden hose because some of the vehicles were out of water. He spend 20 minutes refilling radiators before they finally left. The whole lot of them smelled of marijuana and booze. All three cars that were with him were full of kids and dogs. (When he showed up, he was driving an old pickup, but his 'wife' was driving in a separate vehicle, an old S10 blazer). The other two had older cars in even worse shape, an old Dodge that was billowing blue smoke the whole time and both women were screaming at their kids the whole time. I'm sure the neighbors here loved all the commotion at 11pm. To top it all off it was raining the whole time and near freezing outside"

Were they all wearing "Make America Great Again" hats?

Too busy painting their face brown.

Quote from: ZeroJunk on December 21, 2019, 11:15:02 PM

Quote from: donbj on December 21, 2019, 08:16:38 PM
"Before they left, he asked if he could use my garden hose because some of the vehicles were out of water. He spend 20 minutes refilling radiators before they finally left. The whole lot of them smelled of marijuana and booze. All three cars that were with him were full of kids and dogs. (When he showed up, he was driving an old pickup, but his 'wife' was driving in a separate vehicle, an old S10 blazer). The other two had older cars in even worse shape, an old Dodge that was billowing blue smoke the whole time and both women were screaming at their kids the whole time. I'm sure the neighbors here loved all the commotion at 11pm. To top it all off it was raining the whole time and near freezing outside"

Were they all wearing "Make America Great Again" hats?

Too busy painting their face brown.

I had a PM about my post. It wasn't meant to be offensive. My response in my pm was Canada has deep trouble as well with a PM that has ZERO experience and is just a puppet/poster boy. I love my USA neighbors! 

Selling anything online lately has gotten strange to say the least. In the past few years the buyers have gotten stranger and stranger. 
The norm though is tire kickers with no money, but those rarely show up at all. They usually just keep emailing and wasting your time.
The one's that amaze me the most are those who drive a really long distance to look at something, usually something they've seen a couple dozen pics of first, only to say they don't want it or they don't have the cash. I had a guy show up to look at a four year old backhoe I had listed. He showed up with less than thousand bucks and got mad when I wouldn't sell it to him for $30k less than it was listed for. He came back three times with the same offer, and got mad when it sold and the ad went down. He insisted that he was here first and that I screwed him by selling to someone else with out calling him first.

 
I was selling my old truck, which had about 80k miles on it. I listed it for blue book value and wasn't budging on the price.
I had more than a half dozen people who wanted to trade their million mile rust buckets even up for my garage kept older truck.
Who on earth would swap a good running turn key pickup for a busted up, rusty, worn out pile of junk? 
I can't count how many people showed up to look at my truck with no money and expected to buy it for pocket change or some lopsided trade. A couple of them even made it clear they didn't have the title to the vehicle they were trying to trade. Yet they were driving it on the road. A local cop told me that lately about 1 in 8 people he stops have no registration and no papers for the vehicle they're driving. They all but stopped impounding those vehicles since they had no room to store them and no one ever claims the vehicle or pays the fines anyway. Its been driving car insurance through the roof here.

Quote from: sawguy21 on December 21, 2019, 02:48:36 AM
:D :D That sounds like a tv script, could be worth something.

Isn't there enough dumb reality TV already?

I've ran into some dandies .Once I sold a 1968 El Camino to who "jumped " the title and ran on my plates for 6 months which was long enough ago that in Ohio you had to list the mileage on another form .The previous titles didn't have that provision .I was a tad bit miffed over that one  .He had all his teeth and I didn't see an ugly wife or a mangy hound dog .On the other hand he could have had a cute blond  ,a poodle and a new Cadillac for all I know .

Quote from: donbj on December 21, 2019, 11:31:45 PM

Quote from: donbj on December 21, 2019, 08:16:38 PM

Were they all wearing "Make America Great Again" hats?

I had a PM about my post. It wasn't meant to be offensive. My response in my pm was Canada has deep trouble as well with a PM that has ZERO experience and is just a puppet/poster boy. I love my USA neighbors!

The problem is you made an offensive political statement in an area where politics are not allowed.

Quote from: donbj on December 21, 2019, 08:16:38 PM
Were they all wearing "Make America Great Again" hats?

You are treading on dangerous ground. Knock it off or you will get a glimpse of my maga hat on your way out.

Back on the subject .I can argue politics at other places .You get used saws and in these parts  along with other items they over price them .Knowing full well somebody will want to horse trade or negotiate .The way I look at it is the only reason they are for sale is because they don't run right and that is accordingly how much if  I offer any money at all for them .That being even if they are rare or capable of being reworked into a hot runner .It's either aye or nay ,makes me no difference .
On the other side of that coin I've given away blowers , chainsaws ,weed wackers ,lawn mowers which BTW ran good .Somebody else can have my share of old rusty shot guns and blind coon hounds  with no teeth .< obviously the bark would be worse than the bite .Gummy dog .

Quote from: Jeff on December 22, 2019, 09:15:30 AM

Quote from: donbj on December 21, 2019, 08:16:38 PM
Were they all wearing "Make America Great Again" hats?

You are treading on dangerous ground. Knock it off or you will get a glimpse of my maga hat on your way out.

Yes it was inappropriate, my apologies.

Thankyou. :)

Quote from: Al_Smith on December 22, 2019, 06:05:59 AM
I've ran into some dandies .Once I sold a 1968 El Camino to who "jumped " the title and ran on my plates for 6 months which was long enough ago that in Ohio you had to list the mileage on another form .The previous titles didn't have that provision .I was a tad bit miffed over that one  .He had all his teeth and I didn't see an ugly wife or a mangy hound dog .On the other hand he could have had a cute blond  ,a poodle and a new Cadillac for all I know .

I've gotten into the habit of snapping a pic of the buyer, plus their driver's license when I sell a vehicle, plus I make them sign a bill of sale with the date on it.
Back in 1986 I traded in a pickup truck, 6 months after I traded it in, I got a parking ticket and two red light tickets in the mail from a town I've never been too. The bad part was that they had the tags wrong, the vehicle and vin were correct but the tag number on the ticket was to a truck I still owned. It seemed that the new owner of my old truck had not registered the truck or transferred the title, since he lived out of state, the dealer just issued him a re-assigned title. They were driving the truck on plates from some other vehicle. We never figured out how that truck, which had been traded in and sold by a new car dealer here, ended up associated with a set of plates on a truck I bought since. The tags were registered to an 87 Dodge, the truck I traded in was an 84 Ford. It didn't take long to straighten it out legally but it was a royal pain to get off my driving record since it showed up as an uninsured vehicle by the vin.
A buddy sold a car to a guy whom he agreed to let drive it home on his tags, then mail the plates back to him. The guy fell asleep on the way home, crossed the median, totaled the car, hit a minivan head on, and he was unconscious when they found him amd they couldn't find any ID on him, only the tags on the car and the paperwork in the glove box. They notified my buddie's wife at work the next day that there had been a crash and they needed her to come to the morgue.
In the end, he had to fight with his insurance company who  dropped him to get all the damages paid, and a year later was still dealing with a civil law suit from one of the other vehicle's passenger' insurance co. who was holding him responsible as the insured owner of the car. In the end all he was out was the legal fees but he got lucky.

I have heard of many weird situations where buyers do not follow through on their legal responsibilities.  
Sorry to see you sell the saw.  I have had one for 10 years and it is as hard to start as you describe, but it cuts like a banshee and is my main go to saw. A buddy of mine is on his second 250 and would buy another one tomorrow.  But his is not as hard to start as mine.. Go figure.  Based on all of the comments here I may pull the starter side cover off and see if there is something out of alignment. W. Jones

I just bought a brand new MS 250 and yeah, it *is* hard to pull! I'm left-handed, but I've always been able to start saws and other equipment with my right arm without any problem. But this thing, it basically hurts my hand when it hits the point where it resists. Ouch. I have better luck with my left arm, although it still takes some effort. Other than that, it starts and runs great. I've been hoping that it just needs to be broken in and will loosen up, but so far it's not happening. I'm thinking about taking it back to the dealer.

If you just grab and yank yes it's gonna hurt. Bring it up slowly until you feel resistance then give it a sharp, firm pull.

I bought an MS250 new in 2017. It was on sale and the sales person told me that they were an end of line. I paid around $350 Canadian. That saw was difficult to pull right out of the box. I learned to drop start it and once it was warm it fired up pretty reliably. The most difficult start was cold, especially if it hadn't been run in a while. Last year I had to replace the starter rope drum as it broke. This spring I'm unable to pull it. It has spark, fuel and compression but I can't pull it fast enough to fire it up. It will snap the handle out of my hand. I've obviously lost a bit of strength. I still believe it is a good saw, but it isn't practical  for someone my age. So, I bought another saw with the easy pull feature.

Welcome to the Forestry Forum.

The trick I found with my MS250 that also would snap that cord handle out of my hand, was to pull the engine over slowly until up against compression. Then give it a pull and it wouldn't kick back and attempt to rip your fingers off. Much better saw when I found that out.