Sharpening Vortex blades

[MobileSawMilSlo]

Hi guys

I am looking on information regarding sharpening WM Vortex blades.



I know that the CBN wheel is different, but what about sharpening cam? Is it the same as on 10/30, 9/29 etc.
Because it the cam is different, then using classical with 7/8'' would destroy Vortex blade.

And while we are on this topic ... is it a truth that sharpening bi-metal blades should be different that for example double hard blades?

Thank you in advanced.

Regards

[Bradm]

CBN wheel on a plunge grinder providing you can match, and maintain, the profile; otherwise, you're looking at a CNC grinder to hold that shape.

[LeeB]

The profile and not being able to sharpen it put me off to the the first time I saw them. I guess if you use resharp from WM they make sense. How well do they cut? Doesn't seem like you would get many sharpenings out of them.

[Dana Stanley]

Couldn't you just sharpen the tooth face and forgo the gullet area?

[Crusarius]

I would love to know whether they are worth it or not. How well do they cut? Wood come out clean?

[MobileSawMilSlo]

CBN wheel on a plunge grinder providing you can match, and maintain, the profile; otherwise, you're looking at a CNC grinder to hold that shape.

I do not have a good experience with CNC grinder. Maybe it was just local sharpening service (not WM), but blades coming from WM service and sharpened with CBN are better.

[MobileSawMilSlo]

The profile and not being able to sharpen it put me off to the the first time I saw them. I guess if you use resharp from WM they make sense. How well do they cut? Doesn't seem like you would get many sharpenings out of them.

Actually, I have got information that when you are cutting spruce with the larger diameter, it behaves better than "classic" blade. I have mixed feelings about them. I ordered not 10 blades and I will test it. My favorite is still 7/34 for spruce because this wood is very unfriendly to cut.

[Bandmill Bandit]

I have a CBN grinder and the wheel for the vortex blades is designed to sharpen ONLY the face and you barely want to touch the face to sharpen it. It is a quick process and VERY efficient. The wheel isn't cheap but very much worth it.

I don't know what kind of total life/volume a vortex carbide tip is going give me at this point, but they give more in the first sharp cycle than the total life span of any thing else I've used to date. IF I get 3 sharp cycles average (24000BF) per blade that will reduce blade cost by over 60% and blade maintenance time by about 80%.

Have 2 of them that just got second sharpening and they have sawn well beyond 12000 BF each. Probably close 16000 BF each and still were cutting fine when I pulled off the mill to re sharpen.

FYI the blades I use are the 7 degree Turbos. Not sure if that is the same as the vortex blade but they do look the same from pictures I have seen. 

Milo; the 10 degree double hards and the Bimetals sharpen with the same wheel. I do slow the feed rate a bit for the Bimetals but not that much really.    

[LeeB]

I don't see the Vortex offered with a carbide tip in the US. Am I just not seeing it?

[MobileSawMilSlo]

Milo; the 10 degree double hards and the Bimetals sharpen with the same wheel. I do slow the feed rate a bit for the Bimetals but not that much really.    

HI
When you are talking about slowing down feed rate ... you mean the speed of sharpened tooth per second? Compared to double hards blades, how slower you go?
And if not secret ... how much CBN for Vortex is worth in USA? Here in Euro is around 585$.

[Bandmill Bandit]

Milo I turn the feed rate speed dial back to left to about the 4 or a bit more for bi metal. running about 5 ish for double hard. ill check the speed to be sure but on double hard the pointer on the speed dial is about straight up and on the bi metal just a bit left of straight up 

If I remember right the wheel cost me 450 ish Canadian. 

FYI I dont see the blades I am using offered on the USA web site either. Mine are 1,5" X .045 x 158'  carbide tip. 

[bandmiller2]

Those vortex bands look to me like a gimmick. Its the face angle, sharp tip, and set that cuts wood their just playing with the gullet shape trying to lead the pack. Band shapes have become almost generic, very little is to be gained from straying far from the common tooth and gullet. Frank C.

[Bandmill Bandit]

Those vortex bands look to me like a gimmick. Its the face angle, sharp tip, and set that cuts wood their just playing with the gullet shape trying to lead the pack. Band shapes have become almost generic, very little is to be gained from straying far from the common tooth and gullet. Frank C.

Experience with the blades indicates otherwise to me Frank! They really clear the saw dust well and throw the saw dust a LOT farther (3 feet at least)  with the chute in the up position. When I use the pail, it fills about 30 percent faster. Doesn't drop as much sawdust under the mill either. I really like them a lot.  

[bandmiller2]

Bandit, do you sharpen them, do they last for multiple sharpening's and do they hold their set.?? Sorry for so many questions but sawdust removal is only one slice of the pie. I hope I'm wrong but they don't look like they will survive many sharpening's. I would hate to have to make a cam to follow that contour. Glad your happy and hopefully they will stand the test of time. Frank C. 

[Bandmill Bandit]

Yes Bandmiller, I do sharpen them myself. So far I have 2 that have been sharpened twice. 8000 + BF minimum for each cycle per blade (my cut lumber list indicates about 18400 ish BF total between these 2 bands) and to be fair this was mostly 4x6. 6x6 and 6x9. I'd say there is at least 2 more sharpening cycles in these 2 bands.

These bands do not have a set OR more correctly stated the set is ZERO. They don't get sent to the setter. IMO this is a big reason they clear the saw dust so much better. The volume of saw dust is noticeably less as well. 20%+/- id say.

As far as a cam goes, its not even a consideration as you only touch the face and just barely touch it. NO gullet grind at all.

As far as quality of the band goes I believe they are a higher grade of alloy and have a much higher flex life as the bands do not "feel" as stiff as the other bands I have used.

Marty probably will be able to clear up some of the fog on my answers but they are the highest grade bands I have used to date AND the easiest to maintain and handle in general.


Just took this pic of the band that is on the mill. It isnt a vortex profile I see. That band has about 6000BF on the second sharp cycle so in the range of 15000 Plus BF cut so far. NO visible gullet cracks in the section.

[bandmiller2]

Thanks Bandit, maybe they have built a better mouse trap. The part I find interesting is no set, its been drummed into our heads for years that you must have set and clearance for the band body. One of my sharpening customers likes very minimal set for the improved finish. Have you noticed less diving and dodging around knots due to better support of the band body.?? Frank C.

[LeeB]

The carbide tips are slightly wider than the blade body. Built in set, just like the saw blade on your skil saw.

[MobileSawMilSlo]

These bands do not have a set OR more correctly stated the set is ZERO. They don't get sent to the setter. IMO this is a big reason they clear the saw dust so much better. The volume of saw dust is noticeably less as well. 20%+/- id say.

As far as a cam goes, its not even a consideration as you only touch the face and just barely touch it. NO gullet grind at all.

I did not know that there is no set. I got info from WM reseller that set is around 0.4mm or .015'.
But if there is no set, how this blade behaves on knots? 

[Bandmill Bandit]

Ive milled spruce, pine, fir, hemlock, and quite a bit of aspen/poplar. So far no diving/climbing issues and the finish is awesome.   

[Percy]

I will vouch for these carbide tipped blades as well. They are costly and I wouldn't want to hit a nail or big nugget. I use them mainly for 
When the resaw attachment is on. I'm unable to sharpen them yet as I haven't purchased a wheel for them.   

We resawed for 8 hours on the same blade and it's still cutting like I just put it on. I would have used about 10 double hards for the same job and at 5 minutes a blade change, I got almost an extra hour of production outa my help.  The guzzintas say they are a good deal if you don't wreck them🤓

[Bruno of NH]

I have used 2 silver tip vortex bands in 10°
They do clean the sawdust off the boards and cants better.
A lot better

[bandmiller2]

Carbide tips that's a whole nuther story I could not tell from the picture. Sometimes tip are stellite looks just like carbide but not quite as hard. Stellite can be sharpened with a good grinding wheel. Frank C.