Just the Facts, the Crown virus.

[Paul_H]

Yes, we have certainly weighed the consequences of our decision in exactly the same way we have chosen to live and work in dangerous situations in the past which is quietly, prayerfully, soberly and with resolve and determination.

[Walnut Beast]

What about the people who carry the virus and show no symptoms. Should they get the jab? Are the Covid carriers building up immunity. Let's hear it Doc

[doc henderson]

yes, and having had the disease should confer better protection in theory, but that has not been shown for sure but in one study.  If you just had it, I would wait a bit, as it has been shown that the longevity is better with a space of time between.  we will have to see data for breakthrough cases

[Walnut Beast]

Thanks Doc. My wife said thanks to your answer from her question

[doctorb]

To be accurate, the Pfizer vaccine was fully approved a few months ago, moving it out of the Emergency Use Authorization category.   This was for people 16 y.o. and up. I do not know if the Moderna vaccine has been similarly upgraded.

[Southside]

Dr B that is not accurate.  The FDA approved Comirnaty, a product which is not available at all in the 
US.  There is not a single vial of it that you can get.  The Pfizer product that is being administered is being done so under the EUA authorization.  

[Lostinmn]

Dr B is correct, that's just the new name for marketing.

" Today, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration approved the first COVID-19 vaccine. The vaccine has been known as the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine, and will now be marketed as Comirnaty (koe-mir'-na-tee), for the prevention of COVID-19 disease in individuals 16 years of age and older. The vaccine also continues to be available under emergency use authorization (EUA), including for individuals 12 through 15 years of age and for the administration of a third dose in certain immunocompromised individuals."


see: https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/fda-approves-first-covid-19-vaccine?s_cid=11700:is%20covid%20vaccine%20fda%20approved:sem.ga:p:RG:GM:gen:PTN:FY22

[Southside]

Plesase show me where one can find this product.  

[doctorb]

I think that this is just semantics.  The Pfizer vaccine is approved, and yes, it will be marketed under the Comirnaty name.  However, it's the same Pfizer vaccine as previously distributed pre approval.  I think companies are hesitant to attach any brand name to a product that's awaiting approval.

Maybe this will help.....

https://www.nebraskamed.com/COVID/you-asked-we-answered-are-pfizers-comirnaty-and-biontech-covid-19-vaccines-the-same-or-different

[Southside]

The product Pfizer is distributing in the US is the one authorized under the EUA. You can not obtain a vial of the approved product. The EUA product falls under the zero liability umbrella passed by Congress. The approved and unavailable product does not enjoy the zero liability protection as it isn't an EUA use approval, rather a full approval, the same as the normal chain of any other approved product.

You say it's semantics. Why won't Pfizer distribute an approved product that carries civil liability if they are convinced it's safe and effective?

Why won't the FDA mandate the approved product be the one distributed now that they have approved it? 

[Walnut Beast]

Wow! Christmas is almost over and the gloves are coming back on 😂. Interesting opinions and facts from everyone. Some valid and some not. Great to hear valuable information from the Docs. I appreciate everything you have contributed 👍. But when the line is drawn in the sand this kid is not getting the jab 

[doctorb]

I have no idea, and I have no way of answering your questions.  The link I posted refers to them as legally distinct, but does not address that distinction.  But what I said is true.  The vaccine is approved and no longer under an EUA.  There is no medical or chemical difference between the Pfizer vaccine products pre- and post-approval.  

[SwampDonkey]

I could only imagine the old vials are grandfathered in until used or expired, when gone the newer vials are used. It's the same stuff.  The 'difference' is that the old version is more concentrated and needed diluting before administering. There is no new 'mystery formula', no more than the current one. :D The 'new' version does not need diluting. That's the new 'mystery' I guess. ;) This ain't the first time stuff ever got grandfathered in.  I have no doubt they have been paid for by tax money, so maybe we can just toss several $$millions out in the trash. They pretty much did that when the US sent expired vaccine to SA. Let them fill their land fills.  :D

The only vaccine of the big 4 that is emergency use only in Canada is the Astrazenca one. 

[Gary_C]

Here is one reason from a news letter on substack https://stevekirsch.substack.com/p/heres-the-real-reason-comirnaty-is which I have no way of verifying either way. However, I have heard a similar story previously which I believe confirms this news letters validity. I also believe the CDC has confirmed that Comirnaty is not orderable in the US but also have no means to verify that either. Note this explanation explains why the Comirnaty version is currently not available in the US only because of a provision in US Federal Law. The approved product is readily available in other parts of the world.

The reason Comirnaty isn't available is because those shots would expose the company to liability since the fully-licensed product doesn't have the liability waiver of the EUA product.
But once the Pfizer vaccine is fully approved in kids, then Pfizer gets liability waiver on all age groups due to a "feature" in federal law for child vaccines (NCVIA). At that time, they are done. They can market the COVID vaccine products under full approval for all age groups and face no liability when it kills or disables you.
This is why they are focused on the kids. This is why there is a reformulation at a 1/3 dose and they changed the buffer and the storage conditions (low temperatures not required). All of these will weaken the protection, but result in a safer vaccine (since it is ineffective).
But for the clinical trials on the 5-11 year olds, they did not use the formulation they approved in the meeting. This is known as bait and switch. So they used a more effective vaccine to show efficacy (in the trials they completed), then they get the FDA to approve the drug but with a change in formulation, then the product product with the new buffer will go out to the public with the lower efficacy, but better safety. This is because they don't want to jeopardize any adverse events happening until they are fully approved. So they basically use formula 1 for safety, get approval for formula 2 (safer, less effective), then roll out formula 2 under EUA.
They also arrange with the FDA and CDC to make sure no early treatment drugs get approved or recommended. This is why there is no movement on fluvoxamine, ivermectin, etc. since that would blow the EUA. Fluvoxamine is the best drug ever for COVID with a mortality reduction of 12X when taken early. It's the best drug to date for COVID, but the CDC and NIH are deliberately burying it until the vaccines are fully approved. Then they'll say, "ok, we have all the data."
So at the end, Pfizer gets a fully approved vaccine with full liability protection. At that time, then the NIH can recognize other treatments.
This is how it is wired to go. Let's be honest about it.
This is why nobody wants to debate our team about what is going on.

[SwampDonkey]

Here's is a statement from European Medicines Agency.

"ready-to-use formulation of Comirnaty. This formulation does not require dilution prior to administration, will be available in a 10-vial (60 dose) pack size and can be stored at 2-8°C for up to 10 weeks. The current concentrated formulation requires dilution prior to administration, is available in a 195-vial (1,170 dose) pack size and can be stored at 2-8°C for up to one month).
These differences will provide improved storage, transport and logistic options for vaccine distribution and administration. The new formulation will be available in a phased rollout starting in early 2022."

New manufacturing sites and new formulation approved for COVID-19 vaccine from BioNTech/Pfizer | European Medicines Agency

Yet the nonsense keeps on spewing. :

And if the need arises, many countries have governments that can cancel out any protections. That happened to a natural gas distributor here, that tied the government into a contract that turned out was no good. They also added to that, that the government could not be sued over it.

[Jeff]

This topic was left because it was supposed to be helpful. A place to seek info that if not for comfort of some sort,  maybe a bit of understanding. Who the hell is it helpful to at this point? Anyone? We have two good men that take their time away from other things they could be doing to try and accomplish this. 

All it is now is a combative cluster to those coming to it for the first time.

[sharp edge]

I find this to be the best place to get information on the (*) from. THANK YOU to everyone for the information.


SE

[Jeff]

There has always been a greater good about the Forestry Forum. As members, frequent guests, or admins, you all know that. While there are islands in this topic where that exists, it's getting to far to swim between them.  If we keep it up, we all drown.

[Lostinmn]

Here is one reason from a news letter on substack https://stevekirsch.substack.com/p/heres-the-real-reason-comirnaty-is which I have no way of verifying either way. However, I have heard a similar story previously which I believe confirms this news letters validity. I also believe the CDC has confirmed that Comirnaty is not orderable in the US but also have no means to verify that either. Note this explanation explains why the Comirnaty version is currently not available in the US only because of a provision in US Federal Law. The approved product is readily available in other parts of the world.

Gary, while you do state you have no way of verifying, and I also support considering all views and their supporting data behind them, there is significate resources available regarding Steve Kirsch. 
It may be worth pursing the following when considering his views in some context.
https://www.technologyreview.com/2021/10/05/1036408/silicon-valley-millionaire-steve-kirsch-covid-vaccine-misinformation/
Home | Covid-19 Data Science
Regardless of information that agrees or disagrees with any particular view, spending time to the extend possible considering the not only the veracity of the source, but also how also the source is viewed by others with the type of knowledge or expertise to evaluate that persons views, can be worthwhile in judging the weight to give a particular viewpoint.  
I leave it to each person to arrive at their own judgment regarding the view in link for the news letter you posted and/or the links I provided above. 
To Jeff and others, I appreciate this string can get a bit difficult at times, but I for one feel it on the whole has been very informative.  A special thank you to all those that take the time to digest, research and post.  Especially to docs who have given their time!!

[Gary_C]

Regardless of information that agrees or disagrees with any particular view, spending time to the extend possible considering the not only the veracity of the source, but also how also the source is viewed by others with the type of knowledge or expertise to evaluate that persons views, can be worthwhile in judging the weight to give a particular viewpoint.  
I leave it to each person to arrive at their own judgment regarding the view in link for the news letter you posted and/or the links I provided above.
To Jeff and others, I appreciate this string can get a bit difficult at times, but I for one feel it on the whole has been very informative.  A special thank you to all those that take the time to digest, research and post.  Especially to docs who have given their time!!

Lostinmn, I agree completely with your views and assure you I found a number of other resources recently and in the past few months that agreed with what I posted. Also I found a total lack of views that disputed the information posted. So I'm sorry Jeff if my post caused your dismay but that information was as factual as I can be.
Also Lostinmn, to illustrate the difficulty in discovering facts these days, I followed your link to what is called MIT Technology Review where they were disparaging Steve Kirsch. Here is but one of the criticism's of him.

He's refused to accept the results of a hydroxychloroquine trial that showed the drug had no value in treating covid, for instance, instead blaming investigators for poor study design and statistical errors.  

When I clicked on the link for hydroxychloroquine I was taken to another MIT Technology Review article that referenced a study published in The Lancet and that raised a red flag to me because of prior knowledge of that fake study that was somehow published in the prestigious Lancet but was found to be totally bogus. That led me to this link RETRACTED: Hydroxychloroquine or chloroquine with or without a macrolide for treatment of COVID-19: a multinational registry analysis which does not begin to explain the outright fraud where the organization that was claimed to have conducted the study was found to not exist and the other authors referenced refused to share the data set that many other researchers found to be completely bogus.

Yes, we are in the middle of a pandemic of both a virus and also one of misinformation that extends around the world. So again I am sorry Jeff for my part in your discomfiture about this search for the truth but hopefully we can all here benefit from this back and forth in search for the truth.