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Author Topic: Vitamin D - Not Covid related  (Read 466 times)

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Offline doctorb

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Vitamin D - Not Covid related
« on: July 27, 2022, 06:53:59 PM »
Here’s an interesting, just-released large study on Vitamin D (NEJM).

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2202106

It found that Vitamin D supplement had no effect upon fracture.  This is a large randomized double blind study of excellent quality.  This blurs the treatment of osteoporosis.  As the population continues to age, bone health will continue to be a real problem in search of a better preventive pathway.
My father once said, "This is my son who wanted to grow up and become a doctor.  So far, he's only become a doctor."

Offline doc henderson

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Re: Vitamin D - Not Covid related
« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2022, 10:11:49 AM »
good info Bob.  It is helpful if there is a deficiency, I assume.  have no time to read the study yet.  It is still good to build calcium stores in the young girls.  Make sure daughters and granddaughters get enough calcium when young. It is like a 401 K and you only can add a lot in your teens and younger years.
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

Offline SwampDonkey

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Re: Vitamin D - Not Covid related
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2022, 10:44:27 AM »
Not surprising. I've never heard of Vit D being promoted as a preventative to fractures. Not at least from experts I have followed who have studied it for decades. But there is evidence that excessive amounts of Vit D can deplete calcium. And appears to be amounts quite a bit higher than recommended levels.  I've only heard of things to do with immunity. That can also include arthritis and such which trigger an immune response. It has helped mother, she doesn't need Tylenol any more. Might be anecdotal, but why was there a change? It never cured it, made it more comfortable.
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2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Offline doc henderson

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Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

Offline doctorb

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Re: Vitamin D - Not Covid related
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2022, 12:46:33 PM »
Excellent medical,review of Vitamin D and bone health.  

Swamp-  the standard preventive treatment for those at risk for osteoporosis, or those that already are approaching it, has been Vit D and calcium supplements.  This large study states that those supplements don’t prevent those issues.  This study also agrees with doc h that Vit D should be used to treat Vit D deficiency. It’s most controversial conclusion is that it questions both the dose of Vit D required daily and whether Vit D levels should be routinely tested in a widespread manner, as they are today.
My father once said, "This is my son who wanted to grow up and become a doctor.  So far, he's only become a doctor."

Offline SwampDonkey

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Re: Vitamin D - Not Covid related
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2022, 01:52:26 PM »
Like I said, I'm not surprised they don't prevent it. One of the references in Doc H's study (I don't have access to the first set of references) is one I follow. Michael H Holick. The reference points to a co-authored paper "Evaluation, treatment, and prevention of vitamin D deficiency".
“No amount of belief makes something a fact.” James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Offline doctorb

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Re: Vitamin D - Not Covid related
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2022, 06:07:51 PM »
I’m a bit surprised.  And I’m sure the 10’s of millions of women who have been taking Vit D and calcium are surprised.  These patients are not being treated for Vit D deficiency.  That’s entirely another matter.
My father once said, "This is my son who wanted to grow up and become a doctor.  So far, he's only become a doctor."

Offline SwampDonkey

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Re: Vitamin D - Not Covid related
« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2022, 12:44:35 PM »
I know it is. On the other hand, if they are not deficient (Vit D and Calcium), why prescribe it? My mother has never been prescribed them for arthritis. But it turns out Vit D helps manage arthritic pain. So instead of Tylenol, Vit D is making it easier to deal with without taking a drug. Treating pain, not the disease. That paper I mentioned was a reference in Doc H's paper on deficiency. I have not seen the references in the paper you linked to. ;)
“No amount of belief makes something a fact.” James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Offline doctorb

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Re: Vitamin D - Not Covid related
« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2022, 03:01:53 PM »
They were prescribed the combo because it’s easy and cheap and over time was hoped to lessen the rate of bone loss associated with aging, especially in females.  I agree with you, however, that if there’s no deficiency, why take it.
My father once said, "This is my son who wanted to grow up and become a doctor.  So far, he's only become a doctor."

Offline doc henderson

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Re: Vitamin D - Not Covid related
« Reply #9 on: July 29, 2022, 05:54:19 PM »
We are all concerned with osteoporosis.  Many elderly folks' deaths result from complications of hip fracture.  If they survive, it may be the reason their home is sold, and they transition to "elder" options.  Try getting a 13-year-old with a family history to change diet to prevent fracture when they are 80.  treatment/prevention is best started in your teens.  it affects women more than men.  bone develops and maintains strength with use and stress.  the explanation is that (just like muscle), the bone will repair injury with more structure and mass.  the calcium is the mud and clay that makes a straw house strong.  This is in part the issue regular docs have with supplements, is it is unusual to have academic scrutiny.  I always say no harm if you can afford the "food supplement".  So, part of the point is the cost for the Vit. D for hundreds of millions of women that have been doing this for 40 years based on the assumption that it was saving lives.  Old folks tend to be less active, more inside, and may have limited diet based on finances and or bad teeth.  My definition of old is now anyone older than Lynn @Magicman .   8) 8) 8)   :)
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

Offline Gary_C

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Re: Vitamin D - Not Covid related
« Reply #10 on: July 30, 2022, 01:21:39 PM »
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.

Offline doctorb

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Re: Vitamin D - Not Covid related
« Reply #11 on: July 31, 2022, 03:49:33 PM »
While I can’t agree with everything he says, I agree with his premise…that Vit D supplements are OK to take (“I don’t care if you take them”), but probably have little effect on bone health.  His distinction between the problem being a vitamin D deficiency, where supplementation treats the actual problem, and having a disease process that also lowers vitamin D levels, where supplementation does not treat the actual problem, is applicable to many medical issues.  

Gary - thx for posting.
My father once said, "This is my son who wanted to grow up and become a doctor.  So far, he's only become a doctor."


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