College football

[JD Guy]

Wow, lots of great comments here! 

I guess I'm that old fashioned guy that think character and integrity still matters, and should be especially prevalent in high school and college sports. The win at any cost attitude and coaching up players to push the rules as far as they can until they're caught just doesn't wash with me.

NIL, not a fan but like I already stated I am "Old and Not in Fashion"

As for Urban Meyer, I wouldn't wish him as a coach for any program, sorry!

I will continue to watch and support my Clemson Tigers and Dabo Swinney unless they also push the limits of proper conduct and sportsmanship. I will also call them out on it as quickly as I would any other program.

I'm not a big Saban or Alabama fan but I have to say that the program has in fact produced a number of very good coaches!

[kantuckid]

Some aspects of NIL are a turnoff for me but I've been more bothered in the past by not only an athletes inability to have time to earn money while also participating in a sport. Locally we are seeing ads involving former players who were popular but not among the rare ones that play for pay now. 
It's also good that I'm seeing our KY coaches emphasizing player volunteerism as NIL finds it's way. 
Doesn't the coach "produce" the "program" and not vice versa? ;D 

[Ron Wenrich]

The program is set by the university or college.  It depends what they're philosophy is.  Many think that a great winning football or basketball team will bring more students applying to the university.  More students equals more income.  Also, a winning team will bolster attendance, which drives all sports.  Its also easier to get donors.  But, at what costs?

The program is furthered by the athletic dept.  They're responsible for hiring a coach that can get the wins.  But, that coach has to recruit top notch players.  So, that depends on the facilities, which depends on sources of income. 

The problem with today's sports are that when kids come out of high school, they expect to play immediately at the next level.  If they don't play for you, they will go into the portal and play somewhere else.  Now its seemingly like they're leaving for better pay.  Its more like the players are shaping the program than either the coach or the institution. 

Back in 2012 there was a student athlete that said "We ain't come here to play school".  Its hard to fit someone like that into a program.  He went on to play ball, and filled seats at the university.  Is it their job to fill seats or be a student?  I'm thinking the student part is often lacking.

[Cedarman]

The problem with college football is that on any given Saturday only 50 per cent of the teams win.  Fans would be happier if they could get it up to 75 or 80%.

[kantuckid]

The program is set by the university or college.  It depends what they're philosophy is.  Many think that a great winning football or basketball team will bring more students applying to the university.  More students equals more income.  Also, a winning team will bolster attendance, which drives all sports.  Its also easier to get donors.  But, at what costs?

The program is furthered by the athletic dept.  They're responsible for hiring a coach that can get the wins.  But, that coach has to recruit top notch players.  So, that depends on the facilities, which depends on sources of income.  

The problem with today's sports are that when kids come out of high school, they expect to play immediately at the next level.  If they don't play for you, they will go into the portal and play somewhere else.  Now its seemingly like they're leaving for better pay.  Its more like the players are shaping the program than either the coach or the institution.  

Back in 2012 there was a student athlete that said "We ain't come here to play school".  Its hard to fit someone like that into a program.  He went on to play ball, and filled seats at the university.  Is it their job to fill seats or be a student?  I'm thinking the student part is often lacking.

In the same vein of thought: Having worked for years as a guidance counselor I was in contact with kids and adults every day discussing their future or immediate plans. When I went out to all the middle & HS's in my region, doing career inventories and follow-up sessions with an entire grade, I often found unrealistic, in fact often ridiculous notions toward careers and the world of work. It wasn't limited to the special kids either, as many had no idea what was entailed in becoming a whatever, nor little knowledge of the actual specifics of what they said they wanted to "hang their hat on". 
The closest larger city to me is Lexington, KY who back in the late 1970's did a survey of their students' parents' knowledge about the world of work. The survey came about as they's found that most kids got what they did or didn't get toward future planning mostly came from parents as it were. 
What they found was that parents were an extremely poor source of career guidance for the kids. 
Sports is just yet another e.g. of this type of uninformed thinking. 
I saw this happen among family members where one adult would say "She should be a nurse", when fact was they lacked the info to make such talk. 
As a coach I dealt with parents unrealistic ideas about their kids talent way too much. Got irate phone calls, face in your face, all that stuff. 
For over a half century less than 50% of USA freshmen students finish a 4 year degree at the vast majority of schools, thus my point in another way of speaking. Most schools use completion numbers as a sales pitch in admissions but there are work arounds that clean up those numbers, especially at highly selective schools. 
During the U of KY FB game last Saturday, a regional university Eastern KY U ran an TV ad stating that all undergraduates get free textbooks, free other stuff and are admitted via their HS GPA, not an ACT score. 
Speaking personally, as a kid I had a plan when I went off to college but it was sports that paid the fees and was my highest priority which is not an all bad thing IMO. Beats being entirely aimless all to crap! And believe me when I say I seen lots of aimless during my 27 years in educational work. 
   

[kantuckid]

The problem with college football is that on any given Saturday only 50 per cent of the teams win.  Fans would be happier if they could get it up to 75 or 80%.

Which is much like having a two-party political system huh? Somebody always wins! :D
Back in my youth, ties were often a part of football standings until the rules changed to break ties. 

[Ron Wenrich]

Interesting perspective on preparedness for the next step in people's careers.  I distinctly remember when our guidance counselor came to class and said "If at first you don't succeed, quit.  You don't have the aptitude for it."  He went on to talk about the different avenues available to us and that not everyone was college material.  

I don't think people are ready even after college.  I had summer jobs in the forest industry, with govt., and in a chocolate factory.  But, I wasn't close to being ready for a job as a forester.  All my professors came from academia, except for Mr Schmidt.  He had mill and logging experience.  I used him as a mentor.  When I complained that they didn't teach us how to do much, his response that they teach us why to do something and figure we're smart enough to figure out how to do it.  I later found out that this was true, at least in my case.

As for 50% being winners and losers, there's a large portion of losers that will contend that they should have won.  ;)

[YellowHammer]

I assume some folks saw this, it's the Chad Powers video, where Eli Manning went through a walk on tryout with Penn State.  It was hilarious, and brought back many memories for me, especially watching the walk ons bust their tail trying to get in the game, while we sometimes took our scholarships for granted.  Typically, the walks ons were slower and smaller, but they made up for it in pure grit and heart.    

Anyway, here is a link to the video, it's all over the Internet since yesterday, and is about 15 minutes long.

Eli Manning talks how "Chad Powers" tryout had him worried about physical drills
  

[Walnut Beast]

Iowa boy Kurt Warner never gave up! Tried out for Packers and was cut. Went back to sacking groceries in Iowa and the rest is history! 

https://thefordhamram.com/83578/sports/from-5-50-an-hour-to-nfl-phenom-the-kurt-warner-story/

[kantuckid]

Interesting perspective on preparedness for the next step in people's careers.  I distinctly remember when our guidance counselor came to class and said "If at first you don't succeed, quit.  You don't have the aptitude for it."  He went on to talk about the different avenues available to us and that not everyone was college material.  

I don't think people are ready even after college.  I had summer jobs in the forest industry, with govt., and in a chocolate factory.  But, I wasn't close to being ready for a job as a forester.  All my professors came from academia, except for Mr Schmidt.  He had mill and logging experience.  I used him as a mentor.  When I complained that they didn't teach us how to do much, his response that they teach us why to do something and figure we're smart enough to figure out how to do it.  I later found out that this was true, at least in my case.

As for 50% being winners and losers, there's a large portion of losers that will contend that they should have won.  ;)

As a "guidance person" I knew my world of work experience gave students a much broader perspective, but the factual reality was that as I was teaching in a Vo-tech school across the street from the very university where I was doing my masters in counseling, the profs I hoped would be my references saw me as a maverick student who sort of belonged on the other side of their fence. One who I'd thought was my friend and mentor and whom I used as a reference for some years had actually kept me from a couple of jobs, so I learned over time. The academics tend to think and play that way. 
The typical HS guidance counselor is often more so a class scheduler & a higher education go-between who functions with college admissions folks and helps with the divy of college scholarships. Most found the guidance masters (teachers must get a masters in nearly all places-KY calls for one within ten years or you lose your job) as their ticket out of the classroom. In most cases they have very little world of work experience other than "maybe" a summer job here & there. 
When I became involved with providing students middle school interest inventories (required by the KERA-the KY ed reform laws to come from a Vo-tech source) I learned even more how weak many counselors are toward providing such career guidance. Those with the more nuanced workplace knowledge often got it via their spouse who worked out of education. 
The flip side at my own schools (until I left for a public high school) was that everyone came from the real world not schools only. As we speak and for ~ 25 years, the offering of a degree track or a certificate track (skilled trades, etc.) has the PHd's at the helm of tech schools who often are no longer called by the dirty word-"vocational". When I began most ever Vo-tech was admin'd by either a former Ag teacher or a medical background person as they were the only ones with degrees, the rest were like me (at first) who had skilled trades or similar skill sets. 
An e.g., at the time I left tech schools and took a buyout my "boss" at the state level was a Phd in counseling lady who had never set foot in a school face to face serving students and made twice my salary. We have a son with a PHd so don't read too much into my saying this-his is very technical stuff at that.
I'll leave the losers thing alone as it's not my thing to dwell on. What I am dwelling on there is that Putin's scary and I have my fears.
FWIW, it sticks in my mind that some years ago the Daniel Boone NF in my immediate area was run by a man with your last name and I actually worked with his daughter who taught biology where I was working, the next county over from the NF main office.   

[kantuckid]

Iowa boy Kurt Warner never gave up! Tried out for Packers and was cut. Went back to sacking groceries in Iowa and the rest is history!

https://thefordhamram.com/83578/sports/from-5-50-an-hour-to-nfl-phenom-the-kurt-warner-story/

I Love his story! I went from grocery stockman to mgr to meatpacking, hung up my cleats permanently.
 Often that player storyline is like a musicians and timing, or injuries is everything in getting cut.   

[Sedgehammer]

#1 problem in sports with most of these 'star' athletes do not get an education . Many can barely read or write . There should be strict standards all across the college landscape . Schools like standford & wisconsin with their very high standards is it's a smaller group of players to pick from . I'd wager it's a fairly large % of the bama players cannot do 12th grade high school work and many still not even middle school standards

[YellowHammer]

That is a common misconception.  I was a college athlete. I majored in physics and minored in math. I was around a lot of college athletes and other highly recruited high school athletes. I still see lots of college athletes of all kinds, baseball, volleyball, and football.  If anything, being a college athlete these days requires quite a bit of mental acuity, memory, pattern recognition, intelligence and awareness, and are qualities that are evaluated as part of being a blue chip athlete.  Most of the "competitive" athletes I know are actually pretty high in the intelligence percentile in general.

There are some "dumb jocks" just like there are "dump people" but that isn't desired or normal characteristic of the scholarship athletes recruited at highly competitive colleges or universities.

There aren't any Forest Gumps in major college or university sports departments for very long.  They can't compete.  They get dropped pretty fast. The best athlete is a very intelligent athlete.  Alabama and other major universities recruit the "best" of the best, and including mental acuity is an important factor in being a highly ranked athlete. 

One of the things that is monitored very highly are a student athletes grades.  If they drop the student become ineligible.  So most universities have a tutor and extracurricular educational program in place for all their athletes to maintain grades.  Even with this academic support, many young college athletes get dropped because they can't maintain grades and get cut.  However, higher classmen athletes are generally very intelligent.  

I bet there is a higher percentage of college graduates in general who can't do 12th grade work, I see them all the time...

As far as reading?  Anyone who has a cell phone can read.  If anything, that is one good thing about them.

[doc henderson]

I was not a college athlete.  I had unassuming friends that were.  Bucky Scribner was a KU punter, and his girlfriend was a bartender at Jonny's.  He was great, and not worried at all that I was acquainted with her girlfriend.  I admire the folks that use scholarships in college to get and education.  Not the get a "scholarship despite the education".  It may not be popular but I am of the belief, that if they are going to start paying college athelets, I would rather just do away with all together.  If they want to be pro, go straight there.  We had years where cocky groups of football players would get a beef with some student at a bar, and to show off a group of them would beat someone nearly to death.  to enroll you have to pay any unpaid parking tickets, and with 300 students in line, two BB walked to the front of the line nearly knocking people over in the double wide line, stating "coach says we don't gotta wait in no line".  I think the behavior depends a lot on the coaches.  I think the best guy and the worst guy on the team need to be held to the same standards of performance and behavior.  Now kids in middle school cannot do boyscouts cause they have practice at 06:30 am and after school till 6.  Some people have great talent, and I respect most the ones that consider it a gift, and not some ability that makes them better.  I think has to do with how they were raised as well.  Lots of benefits, but lost are the idea that it was a way for schools to come together for development of pride in school.  the whole school.  remember the Andy Hardy Movies off at college.  there are always a few bad apples.  frats can be the same way.  I worked full time and did research, and enrolled full time in classes to get through.  I did well and here we are.  I think the purpose of college in general and athletics as well, has been lost, and caught up making money.  Not the intended purpose.  @YellowHammer I am sure you were one of those athletes I would have respected and been friend with.  

[YellowHammer]

Excellent comments Doc, thanks for the compliment.  Unfortunately there are bad apples and criminals in any group and that is a coaching and athlete department issue who either condones or condemns such behavior.  

I would think that would not be tolerated by Saban.  

[doc henderson]

I appreciate being able to have an alternate view.  I have great respect for many athletes.  I did 3 sports a year in HS and baseball in the summer.  I learned a lot.  good and bad.  Nothing stays simple for ever.  

[Walnut Beast]

Saban is furious!! Touchdown Tennessee!
Like Lee Corso says! Not so Fast! 

[Nebraska]

I hope the waterfowl hunt in the morning goes better than the football this evening....close again...

[Walnut Beast]

Close doesn't win 😊

[Cedarman]

Nebraska and WB, being a Purdue grad, that was too close.

[customsawyer]

Well we sure had a strange day yesterday. Lots of close games that shouldn't have been and others that were the other way.

[Cedarman]

One Purdue player intercepted the ball and proceeded to strut, high stepping down the field for a TD.  Big yellow flag.  Negate 6 points.  Move ball back 15 yards from the stupidity and not even get a field goal.  Purdue could have lost the game.  He would not have played the last half in my book.  I almost hoped they lost.

[Walnut Beast]

He got fired and is owed 40 million. He could have rode off in the sunset! The rumors were a Private jet from Warner trucking flew to North Carolina picked up Matt Rhule was taken to Memorial Stadium at night then was taken back to NC a few weeks ago. It was said he turned the Nebraska head football coaching job down. Then talks were back on the table. It's official. Matt Rhule to Nebraska going to be announced officially Monday 💪💪

[Walnut Beast]

Amazing! Michigan throttles Ohio State!! How about it Michigan fans. Do you still want to run Jim out of town! Adversity to a big W at the Buckeye's house! First one since 2000! 

[SawyerTed]

South Carolina beat #8 Clemson!  Barely! WOW!

Since it is "rivalry week " NCSU beat #17 North Carolina!   

What do you call a pretty girl on NC State's campus?

Lost!