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Author Topic: Alternative energy - Windmills  (Read 35008 times)

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Online thecfarm

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Re: Alternative energy - Windmills
« Reply #140 on: January 13, 2022, 08:20:46 AM »
Not a good thing.
As I see that is a costly error.  :o
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Offline Brad_S.

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Re: Alternative energy - Windmills
« Reply #141 on: January 29, 2022, 10:31:30 PM »
I use to work for the company(s) that own/owned the Mars Hill turbines. Every year we would perform "RAT" (rock anchor tensioning) on all turbines in Maine. In a nut shell, you pull on the anchor bolts holding the turbine to the bedrock and re-tension bolts if needed. If 4 test bolts that were pulled on a turbine base didn't need tensioning, the turbine passed and it was on to the next one. If any one of the 4 failed, all bolts (16-20 depending on the make and size) would need to be re-tensioned. It was rare to have to re-tension a turbine without many years passing in-between.
Turbine #5 on Mars Hill (#1 is northern most) failed annually. As I said, I am no longer with the companies but last I heard, it has gotten so far out of plumb that they don't operate it anymore.
SD, next time you're by Mars Hill, see if the 5th turbine from the north is operating.
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Offline stavebuyer

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Re: Alternative energy - Windmills
« Reply #142 on: February 11, 2022, 05:26:16 AM »

Offline SwampDonkey

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Re: Alternative energy - Windmills
« Reply #143 on: February 11, 2022, 06:05:14 AM »
I use to work for the company(s) that own/owned the Mars Hill turbines. Every year we would perform "RAT" (rock anchor tensioning) on all turbines in Maine. In a nut shell, you pull on the anchor bolts holding the turbine to the bedrock and re-tension bolts if needed. If 4 test bolts that were pulled on a turbine base didn't need tensioning, the turbine passed and it was on to the next one. If any one of the 4 failed, all bolts (16-20 depending on the make and size) would need to be re-tensioned. It was rare to have to re-tension a turbine without many years passing in-between.
Turbine #5 on Mars Hill (#1 is northern most) failed annually. As I said, I am no longer with the companies but last I heard, it has gotten so far out of plumb that they don't operate it anymore.
SD, next time you're by Mars Hill, see if the 5th turbine from the north is operating.
They were up there with cranes fixing a couple turbines last year.
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Offline dogone

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Re: Alternative energy - Windmills
« Reply #144 on: February 12, 2022, 08:17:38 PM »
   We are just beginning windmills here in western Canada. The oldest ones close to me are only six years old. Do any you live where the mills have been up for many years. No one here seems to know how long they last till obsolete or worn out.
    Also: what becomes of them after shutdown?

Offline beenthere

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Re: Alternative energy - Windmills
« Reply #145 on: February 12, 2022, 11:18:03 PM »
Age of windmills
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0960148113005727

And how they are brought down..
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Offline Ianab

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Re: Alternative energy - Windmills
« Reply #146 on: February 13, 2022, 02:18:25 AM »
No one here seems to know how long they last till obsolete or worn out


Design life is usually about 20 years. Could last longer, but that's what they base their financial predictions on. After that they plan on replacing them. It's not so much becoming obsolete, but there is a finite life for the blades, a bit like an aircraft wing, which is what they most closely resemble.  

So like any machine, they eventually wear out and/or maintenance costs get too high. 

For reference, a gas turbine power station is expected to run for 30-35 years. They might not replace the building, but it will be a new power plant inside it.
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Offline SwampDonkey

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Re: Alternative energy - Windmills
« Reply #147 on: February 13, 2022, 04:41:07 AM »
They've got to have a good base to. There is a wind farm here that is having to replace the concrete base under most of their windmills. I bet whoever poured it first is going to be bankrupt.
No amount of belief makes something a fact. James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

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Offline peakbagger

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Re: Alternative energy - Windmills
« Reply #148 on: February 13, 2022, 06:33:47 AM »
If the company that poured the bases that were failing installed them to the design, they may not be liable. It could be the designer who made a mistake of the geotechnical firm that made the geotech recommendations. It also could be defects in construction materials. Usually, the lawsuits are the shotgun approach, sue everyone and let the court settle it out. 

Offline SwampDonkey

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Re: Alternative energy - Windmills
« Reply #149 on: February 13, 2022, 08:14:47 AM »
I just looked at the old news article and it was a design flaw, so the company is going to eat it. 50 have to be replaced. They figure the work will be done by the end of next year.
No amount of belief makes something a fact. James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Offline Walnut Beast

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Re: Alternative energy - Windmills
« Reply #150 on: September 11, 2022, 04:33:49 PM »
 

 

Online Mooseherder

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Re: Alternative energy - Windmills
« Reply #151 on: September 11, 2022, 05:17:11 PM »
The Windmills on Mars Hill, Maine were not turning today.   Must be off on Sunday's.  ;)

Online Hilltop366

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Re: Alternative energy - Windmills
« Reply #152 on: September 11, 2022, 05:20:14 PM »
California edition..... is that smog or smoke from the forest fires in the back ground?

Online Mooseherder

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Re: Alternative energy - Windmills
« Reply #153 on: September 11, 2022, 05:26:50 PM »
That was tire smoke from the burnout.  :D

Online Hilltop366

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Re: Alternative energy - Windmills
« Reply #154 on: September 11, 2022, 05:35:48 PM »
Hmmm...never thought of that.

Did you ever watch any youtube drag racing vids of the Tesla plaid vs ...... 

Offline KEC

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Re: Alternative energy - Windmills
« Reply #155 on: September 11, 2022, 06:01:20 PM »
I read somewhere that the blades on wind turbine are made of fiberglass and are a disposal liability when they are replaced.

Offline peakbagger

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Re: Alternative energy - Windmills
« Reply #156 on: September 11, 2022, 06:40:24 PM »
I worked for windmill firm in VT about 15 years ago, so my info may be dated. 

There were two major types of turbines. Geared and direct drive permanent magnet (PM). Geared turbines have large speed up gearboxes in the nacelle hooked to an induction generator running at a synchronous speed. Induction generator rotors are energized by the grid so they run at synchronous speed and put out clean AC. 

Permanent Magnet turbines do not have a gearbox, the blades are direct connected to a generator similar to the old fashioned generators that used to be used in cars. The power generated is called "wild AC. The voltage and frequency varies all over the place. They are simpler but require a power converter to convert the wild AC to utility AC. The power electronics are similar to a variable speed drive. The power electronics can be in the nacelle or on the ground. The PM turbines are far simpler. A speed up gear box is a tough application, turbulence and gusts can really shock load the gearteeth. Many of the major geared wind turbine companies went through a lot of issues and long ago 5 or 6 years before a rebuild/replacement was normal. Rigging a new one in place required a large crane and some companies got in lot to trouble solving the gearbox issue and some never did. PG&E was in the news recently that at one of their major windfarms the interior of the nacelles are covered with oil and oil is leaking out and being thrown long distances. At least when I was working, the PM turbines were covered with patents owned by GE and my company (Northern Power). GE owned a large European turbine producer that made geared turbines so they were just sitting on the patents to keep competitors out. NP was building 100KW NorthWind 100 PM rugged turbines for cold climates (a lot deployed in Alaska). They were working on a 3 MW PM machine but the Wall Street folks who bought the company shelved that project in search for a quick buck on other tech. They went bankrupt, but new investors went after the big turbine but it was too late and they did not have the bucks to compete. The small turbine designs and manufacturing went to Italy and I think the big turbine went to Brazil.  

Offline Ianab

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Re: Alternative energy - Windmills
« Reply #157 on: September 11, 2022, 07:22:16 PM »
I read somewhere that the blades on wind turbine are made of fiberglass and are a disposal liability when they are replaced.
That's basically correct, fibreglass / carbon fibre is very difficult to recycle. But at least it's relatively inert, so at least you can dig a hole and bury it. But that is a valid concern.
A local fertiliser company is planning to put in a wind farm using 4 mW turbines. They currently manufacture urea fertiliser from Natural Gas, but as you can imagine that produces a lot of CO2. The new plan involves making hydrogen from the wind generated electricity, and using that to produce the Urea instead (and also sell some of the hydrogen as fuel). 
The hydrogen stage gets around the "What if there is no wind?" problem, as it can be stored for later use.  I imagine there is various technical issues to work through, but the basic physics and chemistry are at least valid.
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Offline Southside

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Re: Alternative energy - Windmills
« Reply #158 on: September 11, 2022, 09:18:31 PM »
For reference, a gas turbine power station is expected to run for 30-35 years. They might not replace the building, but it will be a new power plant inside it


There is a facility about an hour from that builds and re-builds gas turbines, that's all they do.  A buddy of mine works there and was working on one from from the 80's a few weeks ago. 
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Offline Ianab

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Re: Alternative energy - Windmills
« Reply #159 on: September 11, 2022, 10:06:15 PM »
The gas turbines closely resemble jet aircraft engines, and will have a service life (x hours) between maintenance. I think it works out to about 10 years continuous running, but that varies depending on the type of service it actually sees. So the actual engines in a gas station could be swapped out with new or rebuilt ones a few times over the life of plant. Basically the same as the engines on an airliner get swapped out for major maintenance. 
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