Chain grinding angles?

[DonT]

I have just started using my Oregon 511 grinder I set my angle at 30 degrees and have been satisfied with the results.Visited my dealer today and in our chat he said 25 degrees is what I should be grinding Oregon chain at.  What do others grind at?

[Gary_C]

Don, it depends on the type and size of chain you are using. The dealer is probably right at 25 degrees but what he should have done was give you that nice little pocket book that Oregon provides that shows all the settings for all Oregon chain.

It's not that you are wrong at 30 degrees but what he is giving you is the standard setting for all conditions. You might find that 30 degree setting works best for you but you need plenty of power to use that setting and you have to watch out for more kickback.

[ladylake]

 Mine has been set on 30 for 30 years with good results,  most likely not much difference in cutting.   Steve

[old guy]

I too use 30 degrees but I do prefer 55 degrees rather than 60 on the wheel with full chisel chain.

    John

[Jiles]

I have just started using my Oregon 511 grinder I set my angle at 30 degrees and have been satisfied with the results.Visited my dealer today and in our chat he said 25 degrees is what I should be grinding Oregon chain at.  What do others grind at?
[/quot

"he said 25 degrees is what I should be grinding Oregon chain at."---
Free advise from someone who doesn't know what he is advising.
You should have asked him why new chains were not ground at that angle? ? 

[Grandedog]

     Howdy,
   With a chisel tooth, if you set the vise angle at 30, and the vise tilt at 10, the net top plate angle will be about 25.
Regards
Gregg

[old guy]

When I drop my file 10 degrees I also swing it back to maintain the 30 degree top plate, this gives a better angle to the side plate, also a better angle under the top plate, my theory anyway.
I find the grinder too much to screw around with.

      John

[Grandedog]

 Howdy,
   One thing to remember is that the greater the top plate angle the wider your kerf is. In a lot of cases you could be sucking up a lot of power, and wasting time cutting wood you don't need to. A wider kerf helps when your cutting wood that feathers like redwood, or cedar.
Regards
Gregg

[John Mc]

Oregon's recommendation (at least for the chains I've used with some regularity) is 30˚ for their semi-chisel, and 25˚ for full chisel.

I asked a guy very knowledgeable about chain once why this was. He said the few extra degrees in part tries to make up for the fact that there is no "point" on the semi-chisel chain. I don;t know if that's true, but it made sense.

All that said, lots of folks tweak those angles a bit to suit themselves and what they are cutting.

[NWP]

https://www.oregonproducts.com/pdfs/GrindingAngles.pdf

Here's a guide.

[DonT]

ok so looking at the guide Oregon 73 lgx should be ground at 25 degrees.  Guess I will give it a try.

[HolmenTree]

5° is not going to make alot of difference guys.
I just checked my 33RS and 72LG chains and I have been filing their top plates at 15°.
Been free hand filing them that way without thinking for years and it works well for me, as I cut a mixture of hard and softwood.

Holds a better edge

[DonT]

Thanks for the replies, I never put much thought into filing. I always just followed the line on the top of the cutter or the line on one of my Oregon file guides. Closer inspection shows both 25 and 30 degree angles on the guide. Grandedog thank you for the explanation. The other angle I had set at 55 so I should be ok now. I am finally going to mount a vice on the fender of the chipper to make life a little easier on job sites.

[bluthum]

I'm no expert but  I always try follow the angle recommended on the box/package. I keep a little note stuck to the shop wall with the factory recommends on it for the different type chains on hand, being a forgetful type. It's not just sthil vs. Oregon vs. carlton but also round vs. flat top. Oh, and the file angle to horizontal can be 90 vs. 80 degrees as well. Just hand filing here though.

[isaaccarlson]

I grew up with stihl chain and always filed and ground at 30*-60*-10*.
I tried going without the 10* tilt and the chains just didn't work the same.  I have since gone back to using the 10* tilt and the chains cut like magic.  It works on stihl and oregon.  You will take off a touch of strap, but that is fine.  You need to get a good root grind in the gullet.
My dad was running a 60* top plate and was wearing out bars and chains so fast it was crazy.  I scolded him when I saw it and he has been better about it.  Now I just have to get him to use the 10* tilt.  He sure is stubborn.  he always comments on how fast my saw cuts compared to his, but won't listen.  We have the same saw model.  :

[outpost22]

I grew up with stihl chain and always filed and ground at 30*-60*-10*.
I tried going without the 10* tilt and the chains just didn't work the same.  I have since gone back to using the 10* tilt and the chains cut like magic.  It works on stihl and oregon.  You will take off a touch of strap, but that is fine.  You need to get a good root grind in the gullet.
My dad was running a 60* top plate and was wearing out bars and chains so fast it was crazy.  I scolded him when I saw it and he has been better about it.  Now I just have to get him to use the 10* tilt.  He sure is stubborn.  he always comments on how fast my saw cuts compared to his, but won't listen.  We have the same saw model.  :

My old time Stihl dealer (over 40 years) told me 25^-30^ angle on the sharpener. So, I went 27.5^ just to be annoying  :D. Been running them that way for years, except for the skip tooth.

[terrifictimbersllc]

Can someone explain what the 10 degree tilt is about and when it should be used?   Please verify we are talking about the tilting of the chain vise mounting angle from vertical. 

[ladylake]

That 10° tilt is for chisel chains, I tried it both ways and my chains cut just as good when left at 0, been that way for 30 years. Just make sure to get a little hook on the side plate and set the rakers properly and you'll have chains the cut good.  Steve

[terrifictimbersllc]

Thank you.  By chisel chain do you mean square corner round filed, as opposed to chain with a micro radius on the corner?

[John Mc]

Yes, chisel chain has a square corner. It can be filed either square or round.

Chains with a rounded or chamfered corner are called semi-chisel or micro-chisel (or various other trade names).

[terrifictimbersllc]

That 10° tilt is for chisel chains, I tried it both ways and my chains cut just as good when left at 0, been that way for 30 years. Just make sure to get a little hook on the side plate and set the rakers properly and you'll have chains the cut good.  Steve

Steve I'm not understanding why round chisel might benefit from the 10 degree tilt whereas micro or semi chisel wouldn't.

[John Mc]

Oregon recommends the 10˚ angle for their "micro chisel" chains (at least for their 20BPX series that I have their sheet for - see attached) as well as their Chisel chains.

I used to do that on all my chains. When I had a Carlton/Total chain years ago that just didn't cut as well as it should, someone on here (Al Smith?) pointed out that they didn't call for the 10˚ angle. I tried it, and for that chain, it cut better without it.

[isaaccarlson]

I grew up on Stihl chain and it spoiled me.  I used Oregon for a while and had to keep sharpening all the time.  Not fun.  I lost more time on Oregon chain than I care to admit.  IME Stihl chain gets sharper, stays sharp longer, cuts faster, and wears better than Oregon.  I have cut through stuff with stihl chain that would have destroyed any other chain, and it was still able to be sharpened and put back into service.  I am talking about railroad spikes, nails, glass, etc...  The best part is that I can get Stihl chain cheaper than Oregon!

[ladylake]

That 10° tilt is for chisel chains, I tried it both ways and my chains cut just as good when left at 0, been that way for 30 years. Just make sure to get a little hook on the side plate and set the rakers properly and you'll have chains the cut good.  Steve

Steve I'm not understanding why round chisel might benefit from the 10 degree tilt whereas micro or semi chisel wouldn't.

  I don't understand it either but that's what is said in the book I got with my Oregon sharpener which I threw away after 5 minutes. If you went by their instructions you would never get a chain to cut.  Steve

[John Mc]

I was told that part of the reason for the 10˚ tilt is to provide a bit more support for the point of the tooth. Supposedly, angling down away from the top edge of the top plate puts a bit more "meat" near that point, while still leaving the point itself sharp so I can grab the wood fiber. I'm not entirely sure I buy that, since 10˚ does not leave a whole lot more steel around the point, but I can understand the logic of it.

If that is true, then I could also see the reason that it is not needed as much for a semi chisel: the tooth does not come to as much of a sharp point, so not as much need to support it.

[Grandedog]

     Howdy,
   By tilting the vise you're orienting the grinding profile more with the inside corner / outside corner line of the tooth. When grinding with 0 tilt, the geometry of the profile is more in line with the side plate of the tooth. The trade off remains the same, the sharper you make it the easier it is to dull. If you're in clean green softwood, the payoff is noticeable. With dirty dry hardwood not so much. When your talking about chipper, semi-chisel, or micro-chisel and tilting the head. There's not much advantage because you're only going from a spoon shape profile to a slightly more pointed spoon shape profile. Whether it's a square, or rounded tooth, it's efficiency is dependent
on the corner formed between the top plate, and side plate. The reason rounded tooth stays sharper longer is because of the length of the edge between the top and side plate. So realistically with the rounded tooth you have much more edge to dull before it's efficiency diminishes. With a square tooth, once you dull the point, efficiency diminishes pretty fast. 
Regards
Gregg

[terrifictimbersllc]

     Howdy,
   By tilting the head you're orienting the grinding profile more with the inside corner / outside corner line of the tooth. When grinding with 0 tilt, the geometry of the profile is more in line with the side plate of the tooth. The trade off remains the same, the sharper you make it the easier it is to dull. If you're in clean green softwood, the payoff is noticeable. With dirty dry hardwood not so much. When your talking about chipper, semi-chisel, or micro-chisel and tilting the head. There's not much advantage because you're only going from a spoon shape profile to a slightly more pointed spoon shape profile. Whether it's a square, or rounded tooth, it's efficiency is dependent
on the corner formed between the top plate, and side plate. The reason rounded tooth stays sharper longer is because of the length of the edge between the top and side plate. So realistically with the rounded tooth you have much more edge to dull before it's efficiency diminishes. With a square tooth, once you dull the point, efficiency diminishes pretty fast. 
Regards
Gregg

Did you mean "by tilting the chain" ?  That's what I thought the discussion about the 10 degree adjustment was referring to.

[Grandedog]

     Howdy,
   Yes, I meant to say by tilting the vise.
Regards
Gregg

[HolmenTree]

Also called "offset grinding".

[OH logger]

does anyone run diamond wheels in their grinders or just the regular ones??

[terrifictimbersllc]

I use the ABN "cyclone" wheel from Bailey's for several years now to grind all my 404 and 375 chain saw and slabber chains.