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2 by 10 blocks

Started by Ohio_Bill, January 08, 2016, 07:45:48 PM

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Ohio_Bill

I have a customer that orders 2 by 10 by 24 hardwood blocks 500 at a time. They get 1500 to 2000 of them each year.  So it's not something I do every day but it does take some time to cut the blocks in 24 inch lengths. I have cut them by sawing down through the cant and rolling 5 or 6 of them off the mill onto rollers then marking with a square and cutting with a chain saw. So that way I get 5 or 6 at a time. That way is pretty quick but some times I get bad ones because I can't see each block before its cut. Last order I cut each block with a skill saw and had better quality but slower production. Not sure if a sliding miter saw would be an improvement of not. These blocks are oak and hickory so a wimpy saw would not work.  Any suggestions?   Thanks 

 
Bill
USAF Veteran  C141 Loadmaster
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drobertson

 price must be right, if grade is an issue,, looks like potential for major waste.  Too many factors to give any advice, a good buzz/chop saw with a stop would work, then cull out what won't make grade and go else where with it.  tricky for sure.
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

WV Sawmiller

Bill,

   I would think you could cut several at a time on a good radial arm saw if you do enough and make enough off them to justify the cost. A good saw table and rollers should let you set up a good production line I would think.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

Ljohnsaw

So you couldn't "cut" your work in half if you could convince your customer to take 48" pieces?  Wonder what they are making. 

What about making a chainsaw - chopsaw, like on a wood processor.  That way YOU are not hefting the saw repeatedly, it just swings down and makes a repeatable, more accurate cut.  I'd be temped to make a wood cutting band saw like a metal cutting band saw - where the blade does a little twist to get the opposite side out of the way.
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

Peter Drouin

a radial arm saw with a stop on a roller table under the wood. Right off the sawmill.
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

Alligator

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Ohio_Bill

Thanks for all the replies and ideas. In answer as to what there for. They are used to remove slag from a furnace producing silicon steel. 2800 deg. They use wood so it wont contaminate the silicon steel. They are placed on a frame on a pole made out kryptonite or something.
Bill
USAF Veteran  C141 Loadmaster
LT 40 HDD42-RA   , Allis Chalmers I 500 Forklift , Allis Chalmers 840 Loader , International 4300 , Zetor 6245 Tractor – Loader ,Bob Cat 763 , Riehl Steel Edger

Darrel

I've used swing saws (not to be confused with swing sawmill) like the one made by Kbeitz, they work nicely.
1992 LT40HD

If I don't pick myself up by my own bootstraps, nobody else will.

Kbeitz

If you do make one use a 16" blade not 12". I had to do mine over.
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

1ruralmailman

   i would say a radial saw would work,bot you definitly need a 12 inch blade one,so you can ge
t the production you need

WH_Conley

A swing saw will do he trick as long as you don't have employees, OSHA would have a field day. I recently stumbled a 15" miter saw that will cut a 2x10. I didn't know there was such beast made. Really made things a lot easier for one product I make. Set in line with rollers it would let you cut out the bad parts.
Bill

Remle

Take a look at the DWS780, dewalt compound sliding miter saw. Much better than a radial arm, as you pull it out and lower to push back in, saves the saw from trying to climb up out of the cut as a RAS does. It will cut 2"x 16" stock at 90 degrees and with a stop block the length would be the same each time with no measuring required. Price is around $600 and well worth it.

Ron Wenrich

We had an outfit that we used to sell 3x4x32".  They were used for cooling steel.  The way we did it was to make a bundle of 3x4x8, then cut the bundle to length and leave the bottom long to facilitate loading on trucks.  We put 800 bf in a bundle.  We used a chainsaw for cutting.  We also did cut some to length with a chop saw on the mill.  That way we could get some product out of logs with rot and not throw it in the chipper.  It seems like your project doesn't involve exact length and is similar in quality. 

We did have an order that called for 4¼x4 quartersawn white oak.  They cut them for chocks, and some of them didn't make their grade.  They simply deducted the amount of money off the next order or we would refund it.  They were paying some big bucks for these pieces.  Maybe you can do the same with your customer. 

Another option is to give them more than they pay for to make up for the amount of defect you generally run.  You probably have a good idea how much is normal.  Tell the customer what you're doing, and that they're getting more than they asked for.  They'll see it as a reduction in price per unit.  You'll be saving as the labor won't be as intensive. 
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

woodmills1

what is the tolerance on the length.  I do many different cut block lengths and ask the customer what he really needs, as in maximum or minimum.  Too long and I cut again, too short oops...goes to my mechanic for free, he loves blocks.
James Mills,Lovely wife,collect old tools,vacuuming fool,36 bdft/hr,oak paper cutter,ebonic yooper rapper nauga seller, Blue Ox? its not fast, 2 cat family, LT70,edger, 375 bd ft/hr, we like Bob,free heat,no oil 12 years,big splitter, baked stuffed lobster, still cuttin the logs dere IAM

Ohio_Bill

Quote from: woodmills1 on January 10, 2016, 04:46:15 PM
what is the tolerance on the length.  I do many different cut block lengths and ask the customer what he really needs, as in maximum or minimum.  Too long and I cut again, too short oops...goes to my mechanic for free, he loves blocks.

When I first started sawing these they told me not to go over size or they would not fit in there frame. The PO states Full 2 in by 10 in by 24 in. I have always held to never over and no more than ¼ inch less. Have had no complaints and several complements. Because I only do a couple thousand of these each year and space is at a premium I have not set up a dedicated production line with a swing saw or a cut off saw . I bought a swing saw at a auction last year but cant figure where to put it , because of my limited space . It's big and heavy.


 
Bill
USAF Veteran  C141 Loadmaster
LT 40 HDD42-RA   , Allis Chalmers I 500 Forklift , Allis Chalmers 840 Loader , International 4300 , Zetor 6245 Tractor – Loader ,Bob Cat 763 , Riehl Steel Edger

Kbeitz

I had 3 large doorways in my air drying shed. So I hung my swing saw in one doorway.
I still have plenty of doorway room.



 
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

Ron Wenrich

Most times, swing saws are put in the production line to limit the amount of handling.  If you're dragging things back, then you can put it behind you.  Cut slabs to length, cut off bad board ends, etc.   If you're only cutting a few thousand a year, then you might be able to cut a good deal out of logs that have a bit of defect and won't make another product.  Ours was always to cut 3x4s for skids.  Never had enough skids in the yard.  Yours could be to cut 2x10 and cut your product. 
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Ohio_Bill


Looking back to a question I had in 2016 this is what I eventually ended up using. I have cut about 20000 of these blocks. I use a 12 inch 40 tooth thin kerf and cut oak, hickory and sycamore. The saw is a off the shelf  Ridgid  R4221 on a home made table . I have an old set off weighted stops that are set for the various lengths I use. This order takes about 2 days a month and when finished I just move the saw out of the way .


 
Bill
USAF Veteran  C141 Loadmaster
LT 40 HDD42-RA   , Allis Chalmers I 500 Forklift , Allis Chalmers 840 Loader , International 4300 , Zetor 6245 Tractor – Loader ,Bob Cat 763 , Riehl Steel Edger

moodnacreek

As mentioned, the old swing saw would be the thing. The way you are doing it is fine as long as you don't have to do a larger size.    My problem is sawing 12 x 12's to length, getting tired of chainsawing.  Like your bundled pallets, nice to see it done right.

WV Sawmiller

   I sometimes cut 6X6 crib blocks and I usually mark them with a framing square then cut them part way with a circular saw then finish with a chainsaw to help ensure a straighter cut.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

John Bartley

Quote from: drobertson on January 08, 2016, 07:55:16 PM
price must be right, if grade is an issue,, looks like potential for major waste.  Too many factors to give any advice, a good buzz/chop saw with a stop would work, then cull out what won't make grade and go else where with it.  tricky for sure.
The firewood/buzz saw idea was also my first thought.  I own one of them and I've got some hours on one and while I'm no wimp about using machinery, I gotta' say that I don't think I've ever used a more deadly dangerous piece of equipment .... and I was a hard rock miner for a while...

I think a buzz saw with a "stop" that sits outboard of the blade, with either NO table under the outboard side of the blade or with a ramp to slide the off-cuts away, with a roller table to the inboard side and with a hydraulic actuator for cutting.  Rack up six or eight boards, roll them out to the stop, the hydraulic actuator moves them into the blade OR moves the blade into the boards, the 24" off-cuts drop to a conveyor or some other method of removing them without getting into the blade path.
... just some ramblings ....
Kioti DK35HSE w/loader & forks
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Southside

Obviously the OP has a solution that works but a jump saw would also be a good, safe, option in this situation. 
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John Bartley

Quote from: Southside on October 19, 2019, 09:14:41 AM
Obviously the OP has a solution that works but a jump saw would also be a good, safe, option in this situation.
Yup, another good idea above !!
If the idea of a buzz saw is too scary, the circle blade system could be replaced by a remote operated hydraulic chainsaw in the same table.
Kioti DK35HSE w/loader & forks
Champion 25hp band mill, 20' bed
Stihl MS361
Stihl 026

Banjo picker

 

 I have to cut a few boards to length for one customer from time to time.  I mounted this radial arm I got for 50 dollars in my roller line.  When I don't need it it moves 90 degrees out of the way.  I would do something else if I had to use it a lot as it is a tad slow, but i charge an extra $3.00 to cut each piece.  I remember  hoeing cotton for my uncle for $4.00 a day when I was a kid.....so in retrospect $3.00 for about a minute or minute and a half don't sound too bad.  Banjo
Never explain, your friends don't need it, and your enemies won't believe you any way.

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