Okay.... I have a Palin question!

[Sunfield Hardwood]

I worked for general motors and just took an early retirement from them. I would not bail them out too quick, heres a couple of examples why. A couple of years ago they were whineing about the cost of insurance and how they were going broke because it, all gm employees were due to get a 1 dollar per hour negotiated raise. the union employees agreed to forgo the raise so the co. could use it for heath care costs, we're talking almost 100 thousand employees at a dollar an hour , less than a couple of months later the co. announced that there was a bookkeeping error and they had "found". several million in excess in the insurance fund. they never mentioned giveing any thing back to the employees. another time in the last year the co. asked the union members to take big pay consessions because they were in such financial trouble. the prez. of the union told them fine, show us your books to prove your claim,they refused and dropped it. they have treated there salary employees
terribly, because they have no union backing,cutting many of their benefits[salary,vacations,insurance,etc.] while retaining there huge salarys,bonuses and perks, or dropping the price of vehicles :-\. I realize I had a good job and made a decent living but just wanted to point out you can't allways believe the media propaganda.

[cheyenne]

If a co. can't manage itself & prosper let it go broke. I want to see one person on this site get a bailout from anyone, muchless the gov. Cheyenne

[SPIKER]

I thought I would post here too about some of the things going on.

right now Nissan has a diesel that meets Japans 2009/2010 VERY strict regulations more than even CAFE has.  it is slated to be in the bigger SUV type critters they have over there.  now that is what we need HERE and NOW. I didn't see the MPG but bet it is 30+ for those big SUVs ?

Ford GM MOPO all need to get with it and start building small fuel efficient diesels (they already do over in Europe :) WHY they don't even OFFER them here????   

I'm all for cutting big exec money same with the banks and all the ones that were recently ousted.  they didn't help the company they left them go to birds why let them have millions more??? :

Mark M

[johncinquo]

Shoot, I cant seem to get some BMP files to upload. 

Lets just say, Palin has my vote! 

Who's that old guy she is running with?

[Don P]

You probably better not  ;) I got that several days ago  :D

Sounds like we've had quite a party going on at the Denver office of the Dept of the Interior.

[srt]

I gotta back up Spiker on the car thing. 

In the 80's we could get small diesel p-ups here that got really good mileage.  Can't get them now.  See what an old rust bucket small diesel pickup is going for on ebay - It's amazing.

Honda had an Accord Diesel that gets 52 mpg (US gallon).  I've been waiting for 2 years for them to introduce it in America.   According to my Honda dealer, they don't know any more about its arrival than I do.  All I know is the internet chatter about it.  My better half is at about 130K on her second new Accord, and I'd like to replace it with a diesel.  This new Accord is not supposed to need a urea tank, but makes its own.  Supposed to meet pollution standards.  If you haven't driven an Accord lately, they might surprise you.  They're not a puddle jumper any more.

Just heard yesterday that Ford has a small diesel (Focus?) that gets 60 some mpg.  Not planned for sale in the US.

I understand standards have changed for pollution.  I was thinking about buying a small slow speed diesel generator for the farm.  I blinked for a year or so, and now you cannot get them here, as they won't pass emmissions.  Theses are not the fast diesel gen sets you can buy anywhere, but a clone of the old Lister slow speed engine with big flywheels.  Sound really cool too.

A good friend has a Jetta diesel and she routinely gets near 50 mpg.  Car doesn't stink, isin't loud, and has decent performance.

My point is to ask the question: Why don't we have more of these vehicles offered here in the US.  I think the market's ready for diesel.  It sounds like they've worked out the pollution concerns.

OK, I gotta get back to work.

[Dan_Shade]

I am going to guess that it is a pollution problem, either particulate or NOx emissions. Maybe sulphur problems too.

[moonhill]

I came in for a piece of pie and have to get back to work as well.  They reformulated the diesel to help with some issues and that raised the price to above gas prices, great.  By doing so this was to allow the diesels to be brought into the country in a year or so.  So every year it is still a year or two out.  I don't see it happening soon I won't hold my breath.   As I participate in a capitalist society I would think this would happen sooner than later, but something is keeping it just out of reach.  I don't believe it is demand.  This subject deserves it's own topic.   Tim

[TexasTimbers]

What kind of pie did you have ??? That's what I want to know. ;D

Make us guess. I'll say coconut cream pie.

[SPIKER]

YEP:
(sorry seems the thread got hijacked a bit)

I was stationed with a guy had a VW Gulf I think got some place like 60+ mpg ran great, it came with him from europe he liked it so much that he shipped it back in military cargo ;)

He had just bought it new over then and they changed his orders on him so they shipped if free since he was needed back HERE I guess was way he put it.  Normally they won't ship a car but it took him about 4~5 months and mysteriously it had some 200 more miles on it when it got there and an empty tank lol...   He drove my 2nd car (79 honda prelude for a while waiting for his to arrive.)

the Nissan I mentioned above has to meet even tighter standards as JAPAN REALLY is knocking even our EPA standards into the dirt for emissions, I think theirs is almost bad enough to have to take in bad air and put out good air    Also I mentioned in alternitive board about TRK Rentec company making synthetic diesel in a "STL" solid to liquid fuel that is completely clear has less emissions that pretty much every thing (not sure if that includes the french fry fuel?)  uses nat gas and or coal and any bio-mass to make the fuel.  so far it is smaller start up making the fuel for jets & trucks as test platform only. under scale they say they can make it for 2.25 / gallon range!
this company has a lot of good news about clean diesel's too "Clean Diesel Technologies, Inc."http://www.cdti.com/ WEB SITE

I would love to see the small pickups come back with 3 cyl engines and clean burning diesels...    like someone mentioned can't afford a OLD one they cost more than they did NEW back when!

there is a guy who put a china made tractor endgine out of a 28hp tractor into a mazda pickup getting ~60MPG running it WOT most of time to get the speed up on hwy he mod it all himself up in Seattle look over at TBN china tractor forum for it. (I'll edit in a link shortly.)
edit in link to the post I mentioned it is long but interesting read, the guy seems to know a lot about machine work!

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/chinese-tractors/74663-jima-y385t-powered-mazda-pickup.html

Mark M

[Ron Wenrich]

The comment has always been made that the reason we don't have diesels available is because the American public doesn't want to buy them.  Seems like we have a ready market right here on the forum. 

My situation is that I could use a new car.  What they have available, I don't like.  I get better gas mileage in my Saturn, so I'm laying low until the industry comes around.  I wonder how many others are in that situation? 

[Tom]

The auto industry has always felt it could sell anybody, anything.  I resist and buy what I want, not what they are selling, too.   Maybe it's a demographic thing?  I see more and more folks in the their 50's, or older, who are getting out of the keep-up-with-the-Jones' mentality.   There are a lot of older cars driven around here.  As a matter of fact, old cars are becoming quite popular.  :D

[Ron Wenrich]

Keeping up with the Jones' is even harder when you live in Jonestown.   :D

[SPIKER]

I think that most people view OLD cars as something that is 7~10 years old  lol.  that is TOO NEW for me for the most part lol.  I rather spend 1000 for a used old beater that has good body and drive it till wheels fall off and then sell it for about same as I paid for it   got to love the scrap metal dealers driving costs up on junker cars ehhehe

My newest car is a '94 t-bird (drives like a dream but I had to pay a lot $1500)  my oldest is a '62 sunbeam had to pay 500 for it ;) but it is not running I have choice of 2 parts cars that will make it run when I get the shop concrete done...   I'm leaning towards the 3.8 wrecked t-bird I have for eng but also have a '93 ford 4.6 cop car too that seems to be a great parts donor car now...  I don't think the 4.6 will fit though it is WIDE engine...

Mark M

[moonhill]

Apple.   I am having chocolate, peanut butter chunk ice cream for second part lunch.  I may have to go for a run to burn this all off.  Palin is a Runner.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2075952/posts?page=1

I am also on the verge of converting my Geo Tracker to a VW Diesel.    Tim

[Toolman]

I met a guy last year up in Northwest Ontario(Sioux Lookout) while on a fishing trip. He was from Minneapolis, MN. We got to talkining about diesel engines, trucks, etc. He said there is a guy in his area that marries a Kubota diesel engine to Ford Ranger pickups. He has one that he drove up to camp that got close to 60 mpg!! When we boated back to landing 5 days later he showed truck to me and it was impressive. I forget what size diesel it was, but it sounded nice when he fired it up. I did'nt ask him about legality of it.  Is anybody here on forum familiar with this place? He told me this guy does quite a few of them for people . The garage is in Minneapolis area. I searched net with negative results. I wish I had inquired a little more, but it was raining, we were wet, had alot of equipment to unload from boats and we were exhausted not to mention a 1500 mile drive back home.

[Gary_C]

Toolman, I haven't heard of anyone like that, but I do know that others have been installing some foreign made diesels in pickups fpr some time. There was a local guy who had bought up a bunch of those Diesels that dodge put in their pickups before the Cummins were used, but he is retired now and his shop is closed.

As far as these small diesels that are available overseas, I am sure we will see them eventually in the US, but the problem has been and remains is the emissions.

My son has bought three VW diesels, two Jetta's and one Passat. He has since sold the two Jetta's because of engine problems with that diesel and was so concerned with the Passat that he bought an extended warranty because of the known reliability problems. And they do get anywhere from 45-60 MPG.

As far as I know, VW is the only auto diesel sold in the US and this year the VW engine just barely passed the emission regulations. None of the other EU diesels can pass the new US soot regulations so until they can redesign those engines, they cannot be sold in the US. So you cannot blame the auto makers, it's the engine manufacturers that have not cleaned up the exhaust on those European diesels. It is not sulfur that is the problem as the EU also demands the ULSD just like the US.

[DanG]

So you cannot blame the auto makers, it's the engine manufacturers that have not cleaned up the exhaust on those European diesels.

Gary_C, this is a rare opportunity for me!  I get to disagree with you about something. 8) 8)

Just what the heck is wrong with our own American manufacturing companies coming up with a small diesel that will meet our own standards?  Why should we rely on the Europeans or the Japanese to come up with this technology?  I do blame the US auto makers for not keeping up with the times.  Their executives have been totally concerned with the price of their stock, and have given no thought whatsoever to their real purpose, which is to produce a quality product at a reasonable price so that The United States can continue to be the leader of the World!

The large Corporations are vital to our Global Status, and they are letting us down, IMHO.  What happened to the concept that people bought stock in a company so that they could share in the profits?  Nowadays, the value of the stock is all that seems to be important to anyone.  The CEOs and Directors of the companies are reaping trillions of dollars from falsely inflating the stock prices, then bailing out just as the company starts to fade, as a result of their mismanagement.  We are seeing this in all of our major industries, and we must do something about it if we are to survive.  We have given these people the benefit of every doubt, and they have proven that they can't be trusted with our assets.  Now before everybody starts thinking that I've drifted to the Left, I have not.  I am a firm believer in the Free Enterprise System, but I want to see it managed so that it perpetuates itself, as it was intended, and not for the obscene profits of the few.

Now Gary, I didn't shoot that whole volley at you.  I just got a little carried away with the notion that we don't have to rely on Japan or Germany for our technology. ;)

[WDH]

I am a firm believer in the Free Enterprise System, but I want to see it managed so that it perpetuates itself, as it was intended, and not for the obscene profits of the few.

The Free Enterprise System is currently freely kicking our butts as it relates to energy, fuel to be exact.  The gas price went up $.50/gallon from the time I left Atlanta today and by the time I got home 2 hours later.  We are being taken advantage of before the fact.  There are some ugly things going on with the oil and auto business.  The American auto manufacturers have lost touch with their customers, and they are paying the price.  The oil companies have their day coming as well, and I will relish it.

[scsmith42]

As far as I know, VW is the only auto diesel sold in the US and this year the VW engine just barely passed the emission regulations. None of the other EU diesels can pass the new US soot regulations

Mercedes sells several 08 / 09 models with diesel engines

[Gary_C]

Gary_C, this is a rare opportunity for me!  I get to disagree with you about something. 8) 8)

Yes, this is rare. I even agreed with you on the Pavarotti thing and was watching that special on PBS at the same time as you.  :D :D

As to the answer to your question about the diesel engines, you have to recognize that European countries have for years and years levied very high taxes on their petrol or diesel. This "pain at the pump" has forced the european auto makers to produce these relatively small cars with very efficient diesel engines that the european drivers demanded.

At the same time, the US Congress has been unwilling to force drivers in the US to endure similiar pain and thus the auto makers have continued to make the big cars, vans, suv's, and pickups with little regard for fuel economy. The auto companies have thus satisfied the consumers demand and even have evaded the Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) standards by selling these large fuel hogs as "light trucks" and at the same time making the huge profits their stockholders have appreciated.

So you can blame the auto or engine manufacturers for giving us what we demanded, or you can blame the US Congress for the lack of courage to formulate a good energy policy over the last twenty some years since the last energy crisis, or blame the consumers for demanding and buying those fuel guzzlers.

There is plenty of blame to go around for this energy mess we got ourselves into. 

And the other reason for the lack of these diesels in the US is because congress has decided clean air is more important than these fuel efficient but soot producing diesels.  :

Scott, yes what I said was probably true a year ago. The problem is the Mercedes is usually a bit pricey for the average driver. My father in law bought and drove Mercedes diesels back in 1970. In fact for reference, I bought a new 1970 Buick Skylark convertable for $3000 and my father in law at the same time bought a new 1970 Mercedes diesel for $5000, which I thought was way too much for any car at that time.    Problem was that diesel engine was one that Mercedes had put in piston rings that were too hard and they would not seat properly. So after about 40,000 miles that diesel engine was burning a quart of oil every fifty miles and Mercedes refused to waranty the engines.  : :

[scsmith42]

Gary - you're correct about a year back - Mercedes introduced their new diesels in late spring / early summer this year.

I actually rebuilt one of those old Mercedes engines once (72 240 model as I recall).  It came to be as a box full of parts that someone else had taken apart.  Kinda like a Chinesses jigsaw puzzle putting it back together but it ran smoothly once I was finished with it.

And I didn't even have parts left over... well, not that many.... ;)

[DanG]

My point is, if Mercedes and Volkswagen can build a diesel that meets our standards, there is no reason our people can't do the same.  In fact, they can do that but they're probably worried about public acceptance.  They'll have to do a whole lot better than 50mpg to catch the public's eye, IMHO.  You can get that in a gas burner these days if you're willing to ride around in a shoe box.

[scsmith42]

DanG, one of the unfortunate things about the new diesel emission standards is that they significantly reduce the fuel efficiency.

I've seen about a 15% - 20% reduction in fuel mileage on my 08 diesel F450, as contrasted with earlier models. It's a real disappointment, to say the least.

It's been some months since I looked at the Mercedes '08 diesels, but I recall that there is some type of consumable product used in the emissions control system (Urea based product?).  Don't quote me on it - as I didn't research it enough to feel knowledgeable, but the new Tier 3 and 4 requirements have thrown a lot of the diesel manufactuers for a loop.

Caterpillar announced a couple of months ago that they were going to stop producing diesel engines for the domestic on-road market.  The speculation seemed to be that it was going to be too difficult for them to bring them into emission compliance. 

Who'd have thunk that Cat would stop selling on-road diesel engines...

[DanG]

It always boils back down to the same thing, don't it Scott?  The "greenies" are driving this Country into the ground.  The ones I know around here all rejoice every time another restrictive regulation is passed, yet they manage to sidestep the regulations themselves.  They push for tougher building codes, yet they build their houses "off grid" so they don't have to pay for a permit or follow the codes they pushed for.  They push for tighter emissions standards, yet they cruise around in 20 year old Volvos, belching smoke everywhere they go.  They push for higher taxes, then do all their own business "under the table" so they don't have to pay any. >:(