School Bus Tragedy

[Gary_C]

As you may have heard on the news, last Tuesday a school bus was struck by a van and rolled over on a pickup truck near Cottonwood, Minnesota. Four children were killed and fourteen were injured. Two of those killed were brothers and the family had a daughter killed about a year ago. Quite a shock for a small community of 1000 people. Here is one news report of the accident.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/02/19/school.bus.crash.ap/index.html?eref=rss_topstories

What is even more tragic is the driver of the van ran a stop sign and struck the bus causing the bus to overturn directly on a passing pickup. They say it was the pickup that just by chance was there that caused the deaths and injuries, rather than lack of seatbelts.

The lady driving the van had no drivers license and was arrested two years ago because she was driving on some lawns and appeared to not know how to drive.

http://wcco.com/crime/van.driver.tickets.2.660947.html

The lady identified herself as Alianiss Nunez Morales and is an illegal alien. That name is an alias used to obtain employment papers.

As the local fire chief said, the only thing you can do is pray for the children and their families.

[LeeB]

How many kids have to die before we decide it is worth the cost to equipt school busses with seat belts?

[Jeff]

Have you been on a modern bus? Don't use your recollection of what buses were like when we were kids. Buses do not need seat belts, they have a whole different type of safety system. Buses are the safest form of wheeled transportation out there. On top of that, just try to strap 70 some kids in on a bus twice a day and keep em strapped in, or better, get them unstrapped in an emergency.


The school bus is the safest way to get to school. About 25% of students take the bus. Average annual number of injuries and deaths, by mode of transportation to school:
                                  Injuries          Deaths
Vehicle, teen driver          78,200            448
Vehicle, adult driver          51,000            169
Walking                           8,800           131
Bicycle                            7,700            46
School bus                        6,000         20 (5 while riding the bus, 15 in run overs after exiting a bus)

Source: Transportation Research Board
of the National Academies of Science
and Engineering


Now figure out how many millions of kids spending billions of hours riding a bus every year, and that number of 5 deaths a year is very very small.  Yes, any number is too large you will say, but the odds are, strapping over 70 kids into seatbelts twice a day is going to create all kinds of new situations that will replace that 5 with a much larger number.

[breederman]

Thanks for the numbers Jeff.  Living in a rural district like we do, most kids ride the bus. The drivers do a heck of a job and the buses are much safer than the ones we rode to school.
  I would belive that most school bus accidents are caused by other motorists. A year and a half ago I was following a tri axel dump that was ALL over the road, I had backed way off becouse I was scared he would wreck.  I heard the crash and saw that he had hit a school bus head on.  I nearly puked I was so scared.  It turned out that only the driver and one aid was on the bus and niether was seriously injured, but the first look must have taken 5 years off my life!

[Gary_C]

There has been a discussion about seat belts in school busses here after this crash. But as Jeff pointed out and the MN Dept of Public Safety has said, school busses are the safest means of transportation we have. The reason for the injuries and deaths in this case was the pickup that was rolled onto actually ended up inside the school bus and was the most likely cause of the injuries.

The other question is not so easily answered. The driver of the van, who is an illegal alien and does not speak English was picked up two years ago for not having control of her vehicle and no drivers license. She paid a fine and apparently that was all that was done. The police say they would be charged with civil rights violations if they asked all latinos about their immigration status. I have to wonder if they just ticked her and let her drive away at the time of her first encounter.

For me, this should be the final answer to the question of what we should do with the illegal aliens that are already in this country. Put them in jail and send them back. They are criminals.

Just last week in a small town near me, two mexicans, a father and son, immigration status not disclosed, beat and killed another man. Seems the two attacked the man, hit him over the head with a pipe, and then stabbed him six times when he was down.

[beenthere]

Another reason (as I see it) for English only AND for no illegals.  I don't see how seatbelts in school buses could improve the kids safety either.

Here is another 'tragedy' that school bus drivers have to put up with, on the News this morning.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,332050,00.html

[Ianab]

Same debate here every time there is a (fortunately rare) school bus crash.

The reason it hasn't been done here is that their studies seem to show that often lap only seatbelts (which most school busses would have to be fitted with) can make injuries much worse. In the most common head-on crash scenario the kids get thrown foward into the padded back of the seat infront and seldom suffer serious injuries. A few broken bones and brusies, the kids get carted off to hospital and it only makes the local news. (and the 6,000 on Jeff's list)

If restrained by a lap belt only they fold up, their head hits the seat in front while their body keeps folding down. A good chance of a broken neck in that situation. So where belts might save lives in some situations, they could cost more in other more common crashes.

A lot of young crash test dummies have been driven into brick walls to work that out.

Cheers

Ian

[LeeB]

Thanks for setting me straight. I'm still not sure I'm convinced, but I'm always open to informed dissuasion.

[metalspinner]

Another issue to consider on the seatbelt is the size of the child.  A small child with a shoulder harness that is too high can be killed by the seatbelt.  So, not only would adjustable shoulder straps need to be installed, but they must be correctly adjusted for each kid at each use.

[SwampDonkey]

This winter a team of 7 high school basketball players, all boys, were returning home in a van after a game and were killed in an accident, including a teacher.

[beav39]

i dont think the safty of the children on the bus is the issue ,these illegal aliens need to be dealt with .you want to be in this country you need to learn our ways

[SwampDonkey]

I think it was 3 years ago a van load of Mexican workers was killed on a logging road. I think they worked for a silviculture contractor on Irving Woodlands.

[Mooseherder]

Seems there could be some type of quick release overhead bar design similiar to a roller coaster ride at the park that would keep a child in the seat during impact.

[Furby]

Why do you think there is a height minimum on those rides?

[Warbird]

How many kids have to die before we decide it is worth the cost to equipt school busses with seat belts?

Judging from the pictures and accounts of what happened, seat belts wouldn't have helped those kids that died.

[rebocardo]

> strapping over 70 kids into seatbelts twice a day is going to create all kinds of new situations

Disease control is one of them. Imagine the webbing and what it would pick up in just one week of people that do not wash their hands touching it.       Certainly a different design then what we have for seatbelts now.

I do think seatbelts would be a good safety feature, but, not just lap belts. The reason the FVMSS requires a shoulder belt is many people were seriously injuried by just lap belts, especially in trucks. Even though they knew it, Ford and GM fought shoulder belts for a long time.

I know Ford was sued over the deaths of children in their mini-vans where the middle child died from internal injuries while the outer shoulder belt harness children survived without any injury.

Better and tighter licensing of bus drivers with better monitoring of their driving (I see them break the speed limit on I-285 in Atlanta all the time and pass me while I am doing 55 mph) and better enforcement of existing laws will result in safer transportation. I think the gain from seat belts would not be that great and might create more problems then it solves if not implemented properly.

A 12 ton bus is not a small object and most things hitting it come out on the losing end, so I think driver training is the most important aspect of it.

imo, What we have to do is make sure that anyone through gross neglect (I call driving on a suspended license just that) causes a bus accident and kills or injuries a child is thrown into jail for a min. of 20 years hard labor and forfeits all their property.