Resawing cants

Woodwalker · January 03, 2011, 12:00:08 AM

What are ya'll getting for re-sawing cants or re-claimed beams?

The reason I ask is I've got some of these coming my way.

Most is 100+ year old Long Leaf I'm wanting to have processed into flooring, molding, trim, etc. I'm trying to get some idea of how much labor cost I'll be looking at.
Thanks,
Wade

ladylake · January 03, 2011, 07:52:57 AM

That looks like a by the hour job, plus blade sharpening. Looks like that will be tough on blades, might be good place to try out a WM steelex. Steve

Slingshot · January 03, 2011, 08:49:57 AM

I'm wondering about the possibility of lead paint on those beams that will
be flying around in the sawdust?

__________________________________

Bibbyman · January 03, 2011, 09:02:29 AM

I'm just wondering how much more they'd be worth as beams? Looks like someone would want to put them in some new construction.

Woodwalker · January 03, 2011, 08:25:03 PM

Billyman, most of them are staying in beam form. Some are broken or damaged and those are what I'm going to re-saw for flooring and trim.

redbeard · January 04, 2011, 12:17:51 AM

In Northwest Wa. area I look for reclaimed Doug fir beams especially the old growth that are free of center the 6 x 12 in long lengths are common ones to find FOC nice part about them after you clean them up real good is there all ready for quarter sawing 1 x 4 and 1x6 VG will sell for 3.00 bf wider is better money.

Dave_ · January 04, 2011, 11:07:03 AM

Plus, they're dry and ready to go right off the mill 8)

Woodwalker · January 04, 2011, 07:35:52 PM

Redbeard, There are some Fir beams in the lot. Probably only 1% or 2% of the total. Clean up is going to done before they get here. Your comment about being ready to saw is the root of my original question to the forum.
When you saw logs at $X per board foot you have to break the log into slabs, flitches and cants. For me, it seams like most of my time sawing is getting some flat sides on a log and making cants. I'm getting these beams de-nailed and pressure washed. So all I will have to do is sort and stack on the mill and saw.
With less time and labor involved to saw a cant in lumber vs a log, how much or what percentage would you guys reduce your per board foot sawing rate?

carykong · January 04, 2011, 09:57:22 PM

I resawed some old beams out of a warehouse that had been built in 1850. Those beams were yellow pine but very tight grain with lots of hard resin. Even with de-nailing and power wash, you will surely hit some metal. Your estimate should cover your blade loss,of course, and your bdft yield suitable for trim and flooring is just about impossible to predict. I would stick with an hourly rate. Good luck.

redbeard · January 05, 2011, 01:22:04 AM

Its hard to price it if your cutting for a customer hourly for sure, definitely use carbide blade try a lennox 3 tpi they are 70.00 - 90.00 thats what i use i haven't tried WM stellite yet.Nails don't bother them to much along as your not ripping them down the middle,( i avoid all metal but your gonna hit the hidden ones) Regular blades don't last long on the old dry wood they will heat up quick. You will lose alot on sawing the checked and cracked beams if your going for 1 x material you want to saw the FOC nice tight grain ones for that. Soak with alot of water on the painted ones some of that old paint is hazardous use good housekeeping. I don't know how old pine mills I'am just use to Doug fir and cedar on the reclaimed timbers.

toploader Ford · January 05, 2011, 08:24:44 AM

The best part of that job will be when it's done!

Tom Sawyer · January 05, 2011, 05:49:20 PM

Quote from: toploader Ford on January 05, 2011, 08:24:44 AM
The best part of that job will be when it's done!

I did a job like that a couple of years ago. The best part was when he sent me pictures of the new cottage with the finished floor installed. Keep your expectations (ie yield, hitting metal, etc) realistic and it can be an enjoyable job. You get to see some lumber that you won't see any other way!

Tom

PS, hourly charge is the only way to go.

red oaks lumber · January 05, 2011, 07:04:55 PM

we resaw alot of reclaimed beams. we charge .80 b.f. any metal hit is $30/hit if we have to denail at that point its$60/hr. no matter how good they look you'll hit all sorts of things lodged down in the deep cracks dirt, nails , stones ect. longleaf does have very hard resin which likes to heat up and just add to the fun of resawing old lumber.. good luck

ATLGA · January 06, 2011, 12:24:13 AM

Quote from: Woodwalker on January 03, 2011, 12:00:08 AM
What are ya'll getting for re-sawing cants or re-claimed beams?

The reason I ask is I've got some of these coming my way.

Most is 100+ year old Long Leaf I'm wanting to have processed into flooring, molding, trim, etc. I'm trying to get some idea of how much labor cost I'll be looking at.
Thanks,
Wade

Woodwalker,
That paint will have lead in it. I think you can double check with a kit from Home Depot. I just tested the MC on a load we are looking at for the same thing and it all tested around 9-10% . Keep us in the loop on how it cuts out! 8)

Ironwood · January 06, 2011, 04:09:35 AM

Good point Bibby, those are beautyful looking sticks.

Ironwood

redbeard · January 23, 2011, 07:33:32 PM

I worked a deal with the owner of these nominal 8x12x20' old growth Doug fir beams form a Demo 1940s' era bld. 75 total 60 percent of them are really tight grain old growth and FOC , spent the day transporting them to my yard for sorting and grading. There will be some hrs put in for cleaning the nails alot of 20p nails not galv. so wont be to bad. Might be a good way to pay for a planner molder that i have been wanting 8)

BandsawWarrior · January 23, 2011, 07:53:35 PM

Hey Redbeard if you don't mind my asking...what do you pay for reclaimed fir timbers like the ones in your pictures?

redbeard · January 23, 2011, 11:28:44 PM

they can go for .50 BF

Meadows Miller · January 27, 2011, 06:31:15 AM

Gday

Bibby over here beams like that go for about $4 a bft as is ;)

With stuff like recycled timber its a very variable business to be in from denaling through to planing it is allways better to charge on the high side of things here when I was sawing recycled timber i was charging between $1 and $2 a bft depending on the work involved that was on their timber Mate ;)

Regards Chris

Brucer · January 27, 2011, 07:22:30 PM

Quote from: Woodwalker on January 04, 2011, 07:35:52 PM
... For me, it seams like most of my time sawing is getting some flat sides on a log and making cants. I'm getting these beams de-nailed and pressure washed. So all I will have to do is sort and stack on the mill and saw. ...

One problem with resawing beams is that the sides aren't always flat. If there's even a small amount of twist, it won't sit flat on the bed of the mill, especially on the long pieces. That means extra work making sure it doesn't move on the first cut. I often use shims to support the two high corners on the first cut -- more time required. Sometimes the cant won't be square -- they distort as the dry. Sometimes one face be thicker in the middle due to drying and checking -- it won't sit flat on the bed of the mill, so you need to flip it over. Sometimes the cant is bowed, so more messing about.

Timbers pick up dirt and dust which can dull the blade. If there's a check in it, the check can trap and hold dirt, sand, bits of metal -- an amazing amount of stuff. Depends where the beam was used. Plaster on the surface will dull blades.

I typically charge half my usual BF price, but it's always based on the original dimensions of the cant, not on what I salvage. If the customer wants me to do anything special, then it's by the hour.

Sometimes a customer will bring in a timber to have me clean it up, and wants the absolute maximum I can get out of it. I always charge those by the hour.

I would be very, very careful about buying your own recycled timbers. Make sure you know how they were stored after they were salvaged. One of my customers bought a load of seasoned 10x10 Douglas-fir that had been cut for a bridge repair. Funding for the repair disappeared, so the timbers sat in a shed for 12 years (or so he was told). When he went to check the load, they were strapped in bundles with no stickers, and they were stored outdoors. The owner said they'd only been outdoors for a couple of years.

First thing I found was there was surface mold & rot on the faces where the timbers were in contact. Rain had got in when they were kept outdoors. That was bad, but most of the rot was only in the first half inch. Second thing I found was rot showing up around the checks as I was sawing off the faces. The deeper I cut, the wider the rot. Finally I sawed the end off one of the timbers and we found they were all rotten in the center. Rain had got into the checks, didn't evaporate, and rot got started. So there was a $5000 investment down the drain.

Woodwalker · January 29, 2011, 08:52:17 AM

I hauled a couple of gooseneck loads home and wasn't making a dent in what needed hauled out of there. So, called the BIL and got his truck.

Figure there is at least another two gooseneck loads to get next weekend.
I took time to (sample)saw a couple of small cants. One squared up at 6"X14"X8', clear, vertical grain, pretty stuff. The other one was only 3"X14"X12'
I've been hobby sawing, really wasn't looking to start going "pro", but I couldn't see passing this stuff up. I probably won't have a chance to get my hands on material like this again.

Brucer · January 30, 2011, 02:47:41 AM

Beams like that are worth a bundle. People will pay extra for well-seasoned beams. Some people want salvaged beams rather than beams from recently-cut logs. Nail holes and bolt holes are considered a "plus" because they "prove" the beams are salvaged.

I've seen stuff like that sell for $4.00 per BF after re-processing.

oregonsawer · February 03, 2011, 11:27:56 AM

So how do you guys market your resawed reclamed lumber?
Oregonsawer

Brucer · February 03, 2011, 01:34:26 PM

Get a contract for the job, get the customer to foot the bill for the reclaimed lumber, buy it, then saw it to his/her requirements.

I don't have the capital to go out and buy reclaimed timbers on spec. The people willing to pay the bucks for this stuff are usually looking at house-sized or cottage-sized projects. That means you'll need enough material available to saw out all the various sizes for the whole project.

I'm in touch with a couple of timber-framing outfits. If they get a request for reclaimed timbers they give me a call. I keep in touch with companies that salvage big timbers so I may be able to come up with something. It's all kind of hit-or-miss.

I almost put together a deal 4 years ago. The customer was all set to go, the timber framer had an approved design, and I had a timber supply lined up. Then at the last minute the customer found out he couldn't build the design he wanted because of strata development regulations. Last I heard he was still in a legal wrangle over it.

There is a demand for smaller quantities of thoroughly dry timbers for interior work. If you talk up the fact that reclaimed timbers are extremely well seasoned and are not likely to move, then you can sometimes get a good price for them.