Finding it hard to get/buy logs in northern IL

[RussMaGuss]

I'm still fairly new to milling (only a couple years in so far), and have yet to really establish any contacts with tree removal services, which I think in my area is probably the main resource. Anybody in the area willing to share ideas on getting/buying logs? Homer Tree service in Lockport is really close, but every time I talk to someone on the phone there they say they don't sell logs. I've got to believe someone in the company would sell from the mile long pile of logs vs throwing them in their mulcher. It's just a matter of finding that someone.. I did talk to one of their drivers a couple months ago and he wrote my name and number down in a book in his truck, but no calls from him yet either. Alternatively, I've called quite a few tree removal services over the last few months and have yet to get a call back. I feel like I'm striking out every time I get up to the plate, so any advice on who to talk to (owner of the company vs truck driver etc), how to phrase the conversations, etc is really appreciated!

As far as what kind of logs I'm looking for--pretty much anything but pine (I hate that sap!) Almost any size, as I have a 26" band mill and a 10-30 lucas on the way. Not really picky, just looking for stuff to cut!

There's a fella I've been talking to with about 1500bdft of walnut apparently, but he is about a 6hr drive 1 way and the logs are cracked on the ends. He wants .30/bdft which I feel is probably a decent deal, but the cracks worry me. Attached is a picture of how most of them look. The cracks on the edge of the logs are what concern me more than the butt cuts. These logs have probably been sitting a LONG time



 

[mike_belben]

Those cracks will go in about 6 inches.  Just make sure theyre trimmed clean before your bd ft bill is tallied up.  

Theyll make lumber it just wont be fresh.  And obviously some of that is pretty knobby. 

[moodnacreek]

I would say pass on that stuff and keep looking.

[firefighter ontheside]

I'm in Missouri just south of Stl.  I scan Facebook Marketplace very often.  Sometimes I get free logs.  Sometimes I find logs for cheap.  I guess it depends how many logs you're looking for.

[alan gage]

Similar issues here. No forests and no logging. Doesn't mean there aren't logs but it can be tough to find good ones and tough to find someone to save them for you. No one is in the habit of saving logs for anything other than firewood, and not much of that either. Even if you're willing to pay it can be hard to convince someone to spend the extra time to cut out logs rather than just pushing it into the burn pile with the excavator or cutting it into small pieces and hauling it to the tree dump.

A lot of the tree service guys around here aren't equipped to haul logs so it can be tough to get much from them. And most of what they take out isn't worth a lot (short trunked yard trees) so I can see why they'd just dump the trunk with the rest of the branches, which is what they're used to, rather than doing something different for just a few dollars.

One tree service guy in the neighboring town has a lot of land where he piles logs that people can cut up for firewood and another pile of logs for sale. I've tried to call him about buying lots multiple times but never get my calls returned. Every time I drive through to see what he's got I never notice any logs that have left, only more coming in.

When I first started I took down a fair number of trees and quickly figured out that's not worth it when you have to clean up after yourself. A lot of work and equipment.

I got quite a few logs by helping out one of the tree service guys clean out a bunch of trees that were blown down in a storm. Basically I did all the saw work on the ground by cutting up the trunks so he could just stay in the tractor and haul them out. This let me limb and separate the logs which he set aside and later loaded onto my trailer. Otherwise it wouldn't have been worth it for him to cut out the logs.

I've picked up other storm toppled trees in town where I take my skidloader and trailer to take the logs out. This can be a lot of work and I doubt that it's usually worth it but it's something I enjoy doing too.

The city has given me a heads up about trees they're taking down. They leave the log and I pick it up. Haven't heard anything from them in quite a while. I think they'd rather do it their usual way.

Sometimes a farmer takes out an old farmstead or pig site in order to till it and will tell me I can take whatever I want when the excavator is done. Usually there isn't much left but sometimes I'll get something good. Sometimes I can work with the excavator operator to set good stuff aside but usually not.

The city has a tree dump that's pretty close to my sawmill and a few times a year I can score something nice there.

There is one tree service guy in town that saves logs that I can buy. Have done it a couple times but I'm getting a pretty big backlog now and with not many people buying my lumber I hesitate to keep buying/accumulating logs. I see he has a few stacked up now, just some short ash.

The common theme to pretty much all of these, if you've noticed, is that I have to at least pick up the logs (if not cut them out of the tree on the ground). Generally the people who have logs to sell/give away have no means of lifting or hauling them. This limits how much I'm willing to pay for logs, which in turn makes people less likely to save the logs.

Sometimes it's frustrating but overall I've gotten some really nice logs and have managed to get quite a backlog of them. At the rate I saw/sell I've got enough to last a long time. If I was to start selling a decent amount of lumber I'd be scrambling to restock though.

Best of luck.

Alan

[RussMaGuss]

Thanks guys! I scanned facebook marketplace and there is a decent amount of logs out there. Funny thing is most of these folks think they're sitting on a gold mine. "Oh this log has 500 bdft in it and walnut goes for 10/ft? I'll list it for $4,000 and say it's a steal!"  :D And nothing to load a trailer with either lol

I really want to get my foot in the door at Homer Tree Service by me. These guys are HUGE for tree services around this area. The log pile they have off the highway is like a half mile long and stacked high. They've gotta feed their mulching machine though, so I think as soon as logs are dropped off, they're as good as mulch even if they're worth a small fortune milled up. Gotta catch the driver before they unload.. 

[Jeff]

Do consider your sawing cost will increase dramatically using tree service trees and yard trees. I just went through several sawblades on a couple projects, but understood going in it was likely. No. Probable.

[terrifictimbersllc]

There's been quite a bit of discussion here  about the real value of free logs, can probably just search on those two words to pull it up. Wanting to pay something for selective pickings is a noble idea but you have to look at it from the other players viewpoints. Maybe you can be successful I don't know.Much of sawing logs and lumber is about material handling and transportation, and acquiring quality logs a significant extra dose of specialized knowledge.

[RussMaGuss]

Do consider your sawing cost will increase dramatically using tree service trees and yard trees. I just went through several sawblades on a couple projects, but understood going in it was likely. No. Probable.

I've got a small metal detector. I'm waiting on a 10-30 lucas, so I think when the blades are $300 a piece I'm gonna invest in a slightly better metal detector haha. Don't need any nails or worse in my logs!! 

[Jeff]

Metal detectors dont find  glass  concrete stone porcelain and all the other things in rural logs, and they absolutely don't find all the metal.

[Ianab]

The blades are about that price, but you have to try pretty hard to wreck one.  A metal strike usually just chips the carbide cutters and you have to replace them. 

You can get a kit to re-tip them yourself or have a local saw doc do it. 

You still say bad words when you hit metal, but not $300 worth.  ;) :D

[Brad_bb]

With Walnut, even if the sapwood is rotting off (looks like junk), mill it.  The heartwood is usually fine.  Those end checks are not much concern as they won't go in very far as mike_belben said.  I'll pay $1.50/BF for good walnut.  If large branches are free or really cheap I'll take those too to make timber frame braces, table legs etc.

Most tree services don't want to mess with you.  They make their money doing tree work and money for logs is a pittance in comparison.  One of my biggest problems is moving logs.  I've hired Homer Tree Service when I had a lot of logs to move.  But it really would help to have the ability to load and move logs yourself.  I really like Matt Cremona's log arch trailer.  That would really help with homeowner yard pickups etc.  

I was fortunate to meet a firewood guy who already had relationships with multiple tree services including the city.  He lets them dump a lot of logs in his yard.  That is the way to have a relationship with tree services.  They need to get rid of wood.  If you take a lot, they'll likely work with you.  Unfortunately, it's often cut up too small for lumber, because it's easier for them to load and move. Anyway, when he gets good logs for milling, he saves them and I come over and mark what I want.  He has a tri axle and dump trailer that he will fill both and I pay for him delivering.  

I like using Osage, and recently another firewood guy hooked me up with his buddy using an excavator to take out hedge rows for a farmer.  Me and the firewood guy cut what I wanted for 3 days and then he hauled 80 logs to me.  I paid him for the logs.  I use them for timberframing so I may be able to pay a bit more for them.

[RussMaGuss]

Wow, I was thinking offering like sub $1/bdft for walnut, but the stuff is worth so much and usually sells fast. I ***may*** have just lowballed a few people on fb marketplace 😬 None of those people have equipment to load trailers though. I have a skid steer, and am thinking it would be a fair deal to cut the original offer in half if I bring it to load. My trailer is only a 16' so I'd have to leave the loader and come back for it later too lol. I'm really starting to consider a longer one that can fit my loader and the logs, but that log arch is pretty neat and probably a little cheaper too! If I knew how to weld better I'd buy a set of plans for cremona's mill, that thing is sweet!!

[Downstream]

I spent way too much time manually extracting logs from brush or pickup stick piles until I modified my utility trailer.  Added HF truck crane and 2500lb winch for chunks.  9500lb superwinch and a frame to drag logs out of piles and up onto trailer.  Cut my time by 75% over old manual way.  Plus could quickly grab logs to big to even conside before these mods.



 

 

[Brad_bb]

Yeah, I don't want to pay $1.50 for yard trees if I don't have to.  There was a neighborhood that was built about 25 years ago in a thick woods with mature trees, and I did pay him for 4 long big walnut logs.  I knew that they were less likely to have nails etc because they were slow growing and old compared to the house.  But faster growing yard trees I don't want to give that for.  

You have to deal with a lot of homeowners believing the urban legend of Highly Valuable black walnut - yard trees.  Some though just want the wood gone.  Those are the ones you need to look for.  One other problem is that in Northern IL you are competing with a logger up there who tries to get all the woods grown walnut to sell to the veneer buyer/foreign market buyer.  I dealt with him once and it was not a good experience.  Those were the first logs I bought and I way overpaid.  I didn't understand that until later.  Taught me a lesson.

There are deals to be had.  Just keep talking to people, keep checking facebook market place and craigslist.  And keep your eyes open.  Be honest with people too.  You never know when you talk to someone, later on they may have their neighbor call you with a log or more.  My best score was sitting in a dealership lounge waiting for my truck being serviced.  I chatted up the other guy waiting for his truck and turns out he leads a small group investing in farmland and they had a grove of walnut pushed down with a dozer 4 months ago and the logger who was going to take the logs never came through.  By that point, although they wanted what they could get, they also wanted it cleaned up.  I struck a deal and although I had to buck logs from root balls and limb everything for 3 days, I ended up getting 2 semi loads of walnut from veneer logs to branches I could use for a good price.  There were 21 mature walnut trees. I'm using it all in my new timber frame home I will be building. Ya just never know where you'll find a deal....like in a dealership  service lounge.

Granted, this is not a business strategy.  If you were building more than a side business, you might need a more regular supply.  You'd need to buy semi loads.  You might need to reach outside of IL and have trucking costs.

[RussMaGuss]

wow now that's a deal! 3 days of cutting and you get to take it all home, bet you were happy with that when the work was done! Walnut timber frame sounds amazing, do you have a build album going on here?? And would you be willing to mention the company name of who to watch out for? I understand if you don't want to bad mouth anyone, they might be on this very forum. Thanks for the advice again guys, I never would have guessed to use fb marketplace, but there's a plethora of logs on there compared to what I was finding! 

[Jeff]

So you know going forward, it is against the rules to direct someone to a forestry forum gallery. The sole purpose of the galleries are to house photos used in posts. Uploading unused photos will get you in trouble, deleting photos already used in a post  will get you banned.  Posting links to photos or galleries somewhere else is also taboo.

[RussMaGuss]

Ok, thanks for the heads up. I more so meant like another topic on another subforum, but now I know! Still kinda new to the forums, been lurking the last year or so because all the questions I've had have already been answered lol 

[bradpjohnson]

I like using Osage, 

Brad, how does that Osage cut on your LT15 with the 4 deg blades? That's even harder than the Black Locust I plan on cutting with mine!