ideas on mink trapping

[asy]

HAHAHHA Good one! I like that about the city dwellers, it's funny :D

I'm not a militant, I'm not spouting ya-should and ya-shouldn'ts, I'm just asking how things work.

I guess if I had to be honest, I don't *really* like the idea of killing animals for no reason other than amusement. If they're going to be used, either for meat (for someone) or such then I'm fine with it, or if they're threatening livelihood (killing lambs, for example) then I'm fine with it too.

But, hey, I always ask questions, that way I learn more.

You don't have to agree with me, just like I don't have to agree with you, doesn't mean we can't still be friends.

asy :D

[Kevin]

The land only has so much carrying capacity.
There's only so much territory and food for a certain number to thrive.
I would compare it to knowing how many people you can afford to house and feed in your own home, if you added ten times more then you can imagine the problems when the food and space become limited.
It's all about managing what you have and keeping the numbers healthy without damaging the population.
Conservation is the WISE USE OF , to use without using up.

[farmerdoug]

Asy,

I am not trying to criticize your beliefs either.  It is just in this country they are trying to stop just about anything that involves harvesting a nature or wild product.  This being hunting, trapping, fishing, gathering frobs or even cutting trees.  Nature produces an bountiful harvest but many people think that you can just let it pile up forever.  Even hunters and fishermen can be guilty of this as some complain that if they do not see hundreds of deer or fish the DNR is bad.  There is a limit to the carrying capacity of the land.  If there is to many deer then starvation or disease will lower the herd number.  In the UP of Michigan there is often a winter deer kill.  Starvation is a slow death that is very non selective of its victims.  Let's say that there is a 1000 deer in an area but in a normal winter the habit can only support 500 deer.  In the spring after a starvation there may only be 100-200 deer because the extra deer ate all of the food then all of the deer starved til spring.

This goes with most animals.  Two winters ago the Squirrels around here starved because of a heavy winter and no nut crop.  Last year the nut crop was a bumper one but the squirrel population is still down.  They starved two winters ago and it takes awhile for them to come back.  If the hunters would have shot more then maybe they would made it through the winter better on the limited food supply.

Asy, I hope we are still friends too.  I always value friends who can stand up for them selfselves and know their point of view.

Farmerdoug

[Part_Timer]

Kevin  I understand we just call them colony traps.

Ays- we sell the furs at an auction.  Glad to hear your of the;your opinion is yous mine is mine but we can still be friends.  Not to many folks like that left around anymore.

[Kevin]

The colony traps are generally square, the funnel traps are round, have funnel shaped ends and are considerably larger but serve the same purpose.

[asy]

FarmerDoug and Kevin,

I understand totally, Maybe I need to rethink my thunking on it all.

I certainly agree that a quick shot is MUCH better than starving to death over winter. Irrespective of whether the beast will be utilised or trophied.

One more question...  How does a hunter know when enough's enough? To use Doug's example, if the habitat can support 500 deer, it certainly seems *logical* that 500 (from the initial 1000) be culled rather than starve, BUT, how do the hunters (en-masse) know to stop at 500? What happens to the ongoing population if the hunters keep going until there's only 250? or 100, or worse? Similar to what's happened with a lot of the large game in Africa?

I know the majority of the board members are against government regulation of anything, and I certainly think the government (all of them, yours, ours, etc) have too much regulation going on, but aside from that point...

Who governs what the sustainable level is? Who says "OK, STOP now", or, "OI! Stop shooting the xxxx, they're under sustainable levels"?

Does that happen? Would the 'season' be stopped if there were deemed to have been too many of them killed?

Just askin', coz that's how I learn.

asy :D

[farmerdoug]

Asy,

You have a point on the numbers taken.

First saddly most hunters are lazy around here so I doubt that the deer will be seriously deplete by the average hunter and the DNR do have control on the doe kill by the amount of tags issued.
Secondly the only way I see a serious depletion of animals if there is a legal market for them.  Trapping is the only one that has a legal market that could allow a depletion if the prices rise high enough to encourage it.  But here the DNR requires sealing and counts so if the harvest is high they can adjust the seasons next year.

I think a majority of the animals hunted to extinction or close came from unlimited market hunting.  Animals that were in that boat once upon the time here were deer, pigeons, geese ducks, (passenger pigeon, Buffalo, these two are saddly extinct) etc.  With the proper seasons and controls most came back and are in better shape today than any time in the past.  Heck the cars and trucks around here probably kill more furbearing animals than the hunters and trappers do each year.

Farmerdoug

[Kevin]

The trappers work on a quota system up here.
There are two types of trapping, private and crown land.
The ministry of natural resources is responsible for setting quotas and they also monitor the sustainable levels .
Game birds and game animals are managed in the same fashion.
The problem we have now is with an over populated bear population that are causing damage and moving into the cities for food.
The bleeding hearts got the Spring bear hunt stopped so now people just shoot them and drag them off into the woods to rot.
That's what happens when politics gets mixed into resource management.

[Part_Timer]

Asy

I'll use racoons as an example.  We go into our areas before the season opens and do a rough count on the amount of sign (footprints) we see on the riverbanks and fencerow runs.  That way we know about how many animals are in the area.  Then when we start to trap we take about 1/2 the animals then go to the next area. That way we are not over harvesting any one area.    There is no "limit" on racoons in Indiana so it is up to each individual to practice good stewardship. 

[Part_Timer]

Oops sorry kevin I almost forgot.  Thanks for clearing it up I understand now.  I might have to try and make one if I don't run out of time.

[asy]

Thanks for explaining guys, I'm understanding more now.

Kevin, I'm not a bleeding heart as such, just someone who doesn't understand and is trying to.

Must admit, I'm certainly coming around to the view that it seems SUSTAINABLE hunting is not only OK, but in some ways good for the animal population.

Of course, I'm still against the type of illegal poaching/hunting that still occurs in Africa, but then I suspect you guys are too.

asy :D

[SwampDonkey]

Of course, I'm still against the type of illegal poaching/hunting that still occurs in Africa, but then I suspect you guys are too.

asy :D

People have been poaching here also. Bear galls, elk and deer antler and so on. I've seen video of tractor trailor loads of antlers confiscated by authorities.

[beenthere]

Where there is money to be made, there will be people trying to go after it. That is what supports poaching.
Hunters are not for the most part, violaters nor poachers. If its illegal to do (sell parts for example), hunters don't. Part of the fun, is to hunt within the legal limits (and stretch them a bit at times  ).
In all society's there are the violaters, that shouldn't be confused with those who function well together. Hunters have long been known to be the biggest conservationists of the animals and the land. I could ramble on more, but hope the point is taken. 

I like the open mind Asy has and the questions she asks.

[asy]

I could ramble on more, but hope the point is taken. 

I like the open mind Asy has and the questions she asks.

The point is very much taken, you've succeeded in changing my mind. Go, hunt, enjoy. :D

Thank you for the compliment. I like asking questions, coz I like learning. "The only stupid question is the one not asked".

My granddad said "The best sign that someone is intelligent is that they are curious about all things.

Smart man, that.

asy :D

[Kevin]

asy;
I would never insinuate that you or anyone else here is a bleeding heart, everyone is entitled to their own beliefs.
Trapping needs to be regulated, no doubt about that.

[asy]

Kevin , I never thought you were having a go at me...   

I have beliefs, but sometimes they are based on incorrect assumptions, that's why I like understanding people. I can change my beliefs.

asy :D

[farmerdoug]

Asy,
I have little like for poachers too.  In poachers I mean people that kill illegally for profit or fun.  We had a large poaching ring busted around here in the early 80's.  It involved some 30 people who jacklighted deer to sell in Detriot.  We also have had a couple of guys that were busted for jacklighting deer for fun.  They just shot the deer and dumped them in their field behind their barns.  This was two years ago across from our other farm down the road.  The neighbors complained of the smell in the spring.  The DNR found 150 deer carcasses in their field.  They even threatened the officers for trespassing(miltilia).  They told the Judge that it was their land and the DNR could not convict them as they were tresspassing.  The Judge had a good laugh out of that one. :D

Farmerdoug

[asy]

What's Jacklighting?

asy :D

[Kevin]

Last evening there were two reports of a bear in the area of Royal York Boulevard.

In one of the incidents the bear was eating garbage.

The sightings were both reported between 7 p.m. and 8 p.m.

Where's Jeff when you need him?  :-\

[farmerdoug]

Asy,

Sorry about that.  I forget that terms can be a local thing.

Jacklighting is shining at night with a spotlight or headlight.  Most poachers are lazy so it is done from a vehicle.  The deer eyes shine went they look into the light for easy targets and it locks them up and they just stare at the light.  Alot of guys do it just to see what bucks are around which has legal hours outside of November in Michigan.  It is the poachers that do it to shot deer.  Kind of kihe shooting fish in a barrel.

Farmerdoug

[Murf]

Trapping????   ???

What in tarnashin fer? No need at all .......

Last time I went south fer a few days fishin wit da boys I came home ta find my meeesus wrapped in em', sez dey just follered her home from da store.  :

>:(  >:(  >:(  >:(  >:(

[Part_Timer]

If they'd follow the wife home I wouldn't be looking for a better way to trap em.

[asy]

Thanks for explaining for me FarmerDoug.

It sounds a particularly unsportsmanlike way to behave.

Murf, I reckon your wife's pretty DanG smart, NOT ONLY does she get the furs to follow her home, but ALSO stitch themselves into a jacket!!!

How clever is THAT?

asy :D

[Murf]

Asy, when I saw that jacket I had a stitch too!! 

She said it was only fair, I have sheepy skins seat covers in da plane.  :

Somehow I don't see 4 sheepy skin seat covers as equaling a mink coat, but I'm jis' sayin'...

:D  :D  :D

[Part_Timer]

Murf

You ought to be happy she figured it that way.  If she went on the count you'd still be three ahead and she'd be looking for 2 more coats and a hat.