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Time for 12" x 12" x 5' SYP timber to dry to 15%

Started by Sedgehammer, June 03, 2020, 08:54:42 AM

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Sedgehammer

Thinking of using it for the balcony and stair newel posts. Metal railings, so need shrink to be done shrinking before making them. 
Also, better to dry naturally under cover outside or in a/c controlled climate?
Thanks
Necessity is the engine of drive

Jeff

Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Don P

SYP dries pretty fast but that is a chunk. Reduce the size if possible. The real answer is it takes until it is done. 
 I've noticed something pretty funny on log home building forums. I've watched folks argue and wring their hands over whether to build with green or dry materials, for as much as 5 years, the ones that actually do build. If they had gone ahead and done the worrying later the timber would have been dry.

Sedgehammer

:D :D :D I hear ya.
Could reduce ofcourse, but I like the massiveness of it, then one still needs to have that season down.
Yes, ofcourse until it does, but any rough idea and which locale wood be better?
Necessity is the engine of drive

Sedgehammer

Quote from: Jeff on June 03, 2020, 09:36:28 AM
It will never dry
Wrong term or what do you mean? 
I think seasoned is industry term, but I don't wanna eat the darn thing.....😁
Necessity is the engine of drive

Southside

Outside where lots of wind can pass over them. Cover with tin to keep the sun and rain off of them. That's your best bet, but it's going to be a while to say the least. 
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Jeff

Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

bluthum

If you are going to use it in a conditioned space 15% is still not done shrinking. Mostly yes but inside in my climate it will eventually become 6-8%. That will take a long time, a wild guess once installed at 15% with a dry heat system it would be a few years. Remember that's a wag. 

Also it's almost guaranteed to check big time but that may fit your scheme. I guess my rambling point is you better just make your plan so that the shrinkage has minimal effect on the final product. Maybe figure a design which will accommodate shrinking or some way to adjust for it during the drying.

Jeff

I dont know why you wouldnt just glue a hollow one up.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Sedgehammer

@Southside gotcha
@bluthum checking is most agreeable. Yup, plannin on that. 
@Jeff ya don't know it, but I'm taking these super duper top secret pills I bought on the interwebs. Guaranteed to increase my life span by 100 yrs. True they said. 😁
Hollowed posts glued corners come unglued over time. Have a friend that bought his mansion with many what looks from afar post and beam columns over room entryways. Must be 6 or 7 of them. Everyone you can see the corners coming loose. 
Necessity is the engine of drive

Don P

Hmm, try hollowing out the timber?

SYP is one of the fastest drying woods, I wouldn't be surprised if you could get it down in 2-3 years. Southside is right down to around 20%. At a point the next "step" in a kiln would be to lower the relative humidity, that is where indoor conditioned space would dry faster. Heat mobilizes moisture and lowers relative humidity, you might have a better place up in a barn loft somewhere.

Before a timber is at EMC at its core it has taken a set and won't shrink much more. When you have reached that tolable point is magic and up to you. EMC at the core is pretty much bombproof, seasonal movement will be greater than initial shrinkage, where along the drying gradient it is acceptable is a guess.

btulloh

Quote from: Sedgehammer on June 03, 2020, 01:53:14 PMHollowed posts glued corners come unglued over time.


Properly made, they won't come apart.   Being a short like a newel post helps too.

Besides that, you could always buy an antique beam.  Lot's of sources around.  A bit pricey, but you don't need a lot of material.  Hand hewn, circle-saw marks - whatever suits you.  And they are ready to use immediately since they reached EMC a hundred years ago more or less.

Good luck with whatever you decide.  Your building project sounds interesting, based on this post and some of your previous posts.
HM126

Sedgehammer

@btulloh Antique beam. Great idea. Glad I helped you think of that.....;D
Thanks
It's just for my barn/shop/man cave, but kinda have an idea what I want and the great thing is the wife is pretty much lock step.....fudd-smiley
Necessity is the engine of drive

btulloh

 :D :D  I just needed a little prodding.  :D

You should spare no expense on the man cave. No doubt your wife will agree. 
HM126

Sedgehammer

Oh you're most welcome. I try to help out as much as possible..... taz-smiley
Oh, of course. In floor heat to ya know and she did agreed to build a much smaller separate monitor barn for the cabana and a dirty shop, so the barn/shop/man cave will be 'clean'. The cabana faces and will be open to the pond via 2 siding doors, will be about 14' x 30'. Have kitchen, big screen tv and a bathroom with a shower. The dirty shop (welder area) will be 24' x 30'. That'll be next year's  project though. I'm also thinking of building a wooden silo of the north end with a circular staircase going to the top for a look out. She hasn't 'agreed' to that yet though...... Haven't told her yet either.... smiley_beatnik
Necessity is the engine of drive

Magicman

I have resawn some 100+ years old timbers.  They were not dry.
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Sedgehammer

 :o  :o  :o yikes
I guess I should've said till it stops shrinking, but from the way it sounds it'll be a few minutes.  
I was going to use a 2 x 3 rec tubing fir the top handrail, but will now use either 3 x 3 or 2.5 x 2.5, .1875 sidewall. Cut that to just fit in 2 sections. Then use a 2' long one, a size smaller tubing to slide inside. Plug weld a 1/2 flat plug with a size over 5/8 hole in it. Drill the post for a 5/8 lag pilot. Impact lags into post through the smaller tubing. Slide bigger handrail tubing over it. Weld in middle around a size smaller insert. At least that's what I thought of today after getting some learnin on it..... :P
Necessity is the engine of drive

scsmith42

I've dried some syp 6x14's in the Nyle and they required 90 days To get to 16%mc, 12x material would take a year probably. 80% of them passed SPIB grading inspection too.

This is where a vacuum kiln would shine.

I like Don's idea about hollowing them out. If you took 6" out of the middle they would probably air dry in 2 years with some very low air flow down the insides.
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Don P

Quote from: Magicman on June 03, 2020, 10:21:07 PM
I have resawn some 100+ years old timbers.  They were not dry.
Lynn, those about had to have been rewetted. A 100 year old wet timber would have rotted 90 years prior.

Southside

I can see long leaf heart wood hanging around that log still holding onto the moisture.  
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
White Oak Meadows

Don P

I've sawn old heart pine factory beams. They were dry inside but the resin was not fully set. I was talking to a chemist at a paint company help line one time and he made a comment I've remembered ever since. It was hot and humid summertime and we had a floor that would not fully cure. He said I can't tell you when but everything dries eventually :D. We ended up helping it along, heat running in August.

Hopefully getting a friends L200S up and running today 8)

Tom King

I built a timber framed porch, on a spec house, in 1983 that had treated 12x12x16 posts.  It took about 6 years before one of them twisted, and it twisted the brick pier it's sitting on with it, without breaking any of the brick joints.  It all still looks good though.  I don't know if it was dry by then or not, but probably getting close.

Sedgehammer

I might'n go with 8" sq tubing. Use a 4 x 4 syp top n bottom. Drill size over 3/4" holes in it. Cut 2" tubing to fit. Run ready rod thru w/ sq nuts. That'll have a nice look also. The stairs just cut the 2" on the correct angle. Laser cut 2.5" sq washer to go between the 2" sq tubing and on top n bottom of the syp. Put something like this on the tops if the 8". Black primer only on bare metal.




If not that, I'd CNC some SYP blocks to fit inside of the 8" sq tubing and maybe 12" on top flat 2" deep. Like an upside down sq top hat I guess it'd look like sorta. Just a thicker brim. 
Necessity is the engine of drive

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