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Started by jeepman, February 04, 2004, 07:18:19 PM

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jeepman

My frame plans should be in this week and my chisels are very sharp from this winter. The only obstacle is a stick frame garage/apartment that I'll need to build first. I plan on cutting a few timbers as I cut the 2X's and siding for the garage. My question is which timbers will keep longer with less pulling and checking? I am thinking the joists and summer beams as they will have fewer mortices. They are also less complicated and more universal. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance,
Jeepman

logman

My timbers were cut in Oct. and it took me until about April
to cut all the joinery.  I used white pine and didn't have too
many problems.  I had put Anchor Seal on the ends right
away.  You can get a 2 gallon free sample from UC Coatings
which was enough to do all my timbers.  You can put it
on your end cuts and mortices once you cut your joinery
also.  Where did you get your plans from?
LT40HD, 12' ext, 5105 JD tractor, Genie GTH5519 telehandler
M&K Timber Works

Jim_Rogers

Jeepman:
From a set of plans you should get or create a timber list. From the timber list you create a log list. A log list is a list of the sizes of the diameter of the narrow end of the log needed to create a timber. For example you need a 11 3/8" diameter log to make a 8x8 timber. If you don't know how to create a log list from a timber list then take a framing square and a tape measure and using the tape measure, measure from 8" on one side of the framing square to 8" on the other side of the framing square. It should read about 11 3/8". So any log 11 3/8" or larger log will produce a 8x8 with no round corners.

As you are cutting your timbers you make the other stock for your list. As you have mentioned 2x or siding for the garage.

I start my cutting my timbers based on size, not on time period. All timbers are going to crack some what. That is the character of the timber frame.

If you start milling logs try to make your biggest and/or longest timbers first. These are going to be the hardest to come by. Then work towards the smaller sizes.

If you setup a log on the mill and start milling it and the plan is to make a 8x8 and as you are milling it you see that it won't come out right, or that it will have some round corners and you don't want that, then adjust your cutting plan and make a smaller timber like a 8x7 or a 7x7 or a 6x6. And if one end doesn't come out right then you can cut it shorter and still save a good timber.

Here is a tip I learned at a project where we took down an existing barn.
You'll note that I listed a size above as a 8x7, not a 7x8. There is a reason for that.
When we were measuring the standing barn and making up a drawing of the bents we were being taught by an older timber framer how to do it and he was calling out sizes of timber for me to write down on the list.
He called out a size "8x7", and I asked him why? When I go to the lumber store I don't order a 4x2 it's a 2x4 so why should I right down a 8x7 doesn't the smaller number always come first? The answer was NO! The first number in a stock list tell us which face is the layout face of the timber. So if your stock list calls for a 8x7 sill then the layout face on a sill is the 8" side or the top of the sill and the height of the sill off the foundation is 7".
It really depends on who creates the stock list and if this person truly understand timber framing and layout faces.
If you see stock lists in books and they have the larger number first this is what it means.
I hope this was helpful to you.
Jim Rogers.
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

raycon

One thing to do in preparation is to make up templates for joints out of plywood. Make gauges as well. Comes in handy when checking your joint work.
Lot of stuff..

jeepman

Thanks for the advice so far.
Logman , I had DW Design in NH draw the frame.http://www.timberframedesign.net/ He provided a timber list and a detail on each timber.
The anchorseal sounds like a good idea. I already end coat the logs, but I can see coating the joints too.
Jim, I've been thinking about the idea of starting with the big stuff. I need 1-12"X12"-30'5" timber. I should get a lot of lumber from that if it turns out too waney.

Jim_Rogers

What place in the frame is a 30' timber needed for?
You maybe able to do it with two pieces and a scarf joint?
Some wane on certain edges will go as long as they aren't on the layout face.
If they are on the layout face then there are methods to compensate for that, but it's a lot easier if there is an edge there to begin with.
Templates can be very useful if you have to make a lot of joints that are the same.
I use a set of calipers for checking thickness of tenons, and the framing square for checking the width of mortises. But I also have a set of inside calipers for checking inside mortises.
When using outside calipers to check thickness, if the tenon is too fat the caliper will leave a scratch mark on the piece, just chisel off until the scratch mark is gone and it should then be the correct thickness.
Good luck with your project.
Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

jeepman

Jim, the thirty footer is the center post on a prow wall. It will have beams tied in at two elelvations and a rafter on top. The engineer said no splices. If it wasn't the end wall and not such a big surface, I'd go with a half lap or some kind of bladed scarf. To further complicate matters, that post will have to be beveled to the angle of the prow. The posts on the outside ends of that wall are also beveled with mortices cut in at 15 degrees. I'd show some renderings, but I would be breaking the law and our contract. I guess I'll have to settle for pics once I get started.
My brother was laughing when I pulled out my 6" dial caliper to check some locust pegs we were shaping with a hatchet and drawknife. I'm glad to hear someone else likes to measure accurately.

Jim_Rogers

To check the size of pegs that we're making for the current project, we just bored a hole threw the seat of the shaving horse. When we have one nearly the right size we just try it in the hole and see how it fits.
Thanks for the explanation of the tall post.
Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

jeepman

Here's a link to a picture of my frame on the designers site. http://www.timberframedesign.net/files/pendry.jpg

Greg@lhoti.com

Very nice rendering, but I would encourage more overhang on the back.  Got to protect those walls as much as possible.
Greg Steckler

jeepman

I agree, Greg. I had planned to add about three feet out back. We are thinking about a balcony on the back and will need even more overhang. I'll probably add another bent to support the balcony and roof. I'll get the sides with a built up roof.

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