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Author Topic: Planning a Japanese inspired garden shed  (Read 5654 times)

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Offline GRadice

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Planning a Japanese inspired garden shed
« on: February 13, 2021, 05:37:35 PM »
Something a little different. This will be small, just 6'x9' and about 12' tall at the ridge. Port Orford cedar posts, beams, and siding. Probably Douglas fir for the other framing members, Oregon white oak floor. Posts scribed to stone. Traditional Japanese joinery. It will face south and there will be some glazing to take advantage of natural light. No utilities or insulation. We will use it as a potting shed but in the future it could be used as a child's playhouse or maybe a small studio in mild weather.

POC has been ordered. Sawmill tells me it should be dry enough to begin working it in late summer.

Here are some conceptual sketches. I'm working on the roof design and joinery details now.
I'd be happy to hear suggestions since I still have a few months before chips fly.


 

 


Offline Sod saw

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Re: Planning a Japanese inspired garden shed
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2021, 09:29:24 AM »
Hi GRadice,

I enjoyed looking at your sketches.  It looks as though you are on your way to a nice shed.

My Dad was an architect, here in NY,  who was influenced by; and while stationed in Japan during WW II.  Many of his houses as well as NY State Park System bath houses, etc. have the result of that influence.

One very easy and simple trick for your shed might be to cut the rafter tails slightly to resemble the upturn of their overhangs.  This can be done without changing the top edge of the rafter thereby saving you the trouble of having to shingle a valley near the end of the overhang.

That rafter tail cut works well if not level.  It should still have a slight pitch down towards the tail end allowing rain to drip off the end and not run back towards the building wall.  Starting that cut about 1/4 to 1/3 of the way to the building outside wall will allow the rafter to show the roof pitch and still have that up turned effect.

I have drawn a sketch detail. (Sorry but I use Dads drafting table as I do not have fancy computer programs)  Hope this helps to explain somewhat.




 





Another item to look at is the pitch of the roof.  If you keep the ridge low and therefore the pitch as low as you can without allowing the roof to leak, you will enforce the overhang feeling.  But, a flat roof would not work as well as one with a slight pitch.  I wonder, with shallow pitch, perhaps the depth of the rafter should be increased slightly.  

In my opinion, the gable ends should also have the same overhang distance from the building wall.  Sometimes it is tricky to support that overhang without ending up with a bulky looking job up under the roof.  Keeping it dainty looking goes towards the overall feeling and looks of the whole project.

There are some other ratios and rules of thumb that should be kept in mind when working with larger overhangs.  Perhaps Don P can chime in here.

Have fun with it!

 

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Offline GRadice

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Re: Planning a Japanese inspired garden shed
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2021, 10:30:28 PM »
Thanks looking and for taking the time to make the drawing. There are lots of little details to consider like the rafter end that you suggested that to me make a big difference. In one of the books on Japanese carpentry I've been reading, the author said that there several ways to finish a particular dimension and angle and that carpenters can make different choices depending on the situation but that the result should appear "serene." I love that.

I'll add that I'm approaching this from a furniture making background so I might overthink the joinery a bit.

As far as the degree of overhang, I'm working with multiples of 12" centers for the rafters so the gable end will probably be plus or minus 24" and the eave ends will be around that as well.

This is still all silicon, electrons, and neurons at this point so any other advice is welcome.




Gary

Offline GRadice

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Re: Planning a Japanese inspired garden shed
« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2022, 09:45:22 PM »
It has been a year and the shed is still in progress. I bought the POC beams last winter, then gave them their relief kerf to limit surface checking mostly to one surface.



 

Then restacked the beams to dry outside under cover.

Over the summer I refined the design and made a joinery model. The joints are proportionally correct but scaled to fit the model into my shop so the posts and beams are much shorter proportionaly than they will be. In other words, this is not a scale model of the shed, but it is a scale model of the joints.



 

One fun part was working out the joinery for the barge boards to the eave beams and ridge beam. The joint uses a yatoi hozo, which is a tenon with a dovetail on one end and tapered wedges to pull it tight.


 
And here is the joinery for the floor beams to posts.





 

 
I also dug holes for the concrete piers. I embedded stainless threaded rod, and bored holes into river rocks to fit over the rod. The posts for the shed will be scribed to those rocks.



 

In January I brought the 6 posts into the garage to dry further. They were cut at 6x6 and after a year outside they were at about 15% MC.  I started milling them square and straight but I'm leaving them oversized while they finish drying in case they move. I'll show how I'm doing that in the next post.


Offline flyingparks

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Re: Planning a Japanese inspired garden shed
« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2022, 08:24:47 AM »
 popcorn_smiley

Offline aigheadish

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Re: Planning a Japanese inspired garden shed
« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2022, 08:33:55 AM »
For real. This is neat! Those joints look nuts!
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Offline GRadice

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Re: Planning a Japanese inspired garden shed
« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2022, 10:34:21 AM »
I have 18 posts and beams to process. 15 of them are 10' or 8', three are 14'. I'm starting with the 10' posts, rough sawn to 6x6.

Japanese framing generally uses much slenderer members than is common in the West. Posts for a one story building are standardized at 120 mm x 120 mm (about 4.75" x 4.75"). That means that makes the timbers easier for one person to manipulate and makes it possible, if barely, to take the beams to the tool for processing.

So my strategy for working the beams down to finish dimension is to first knock off high spots with a power planer, then run the nearly flat beam over my 12" jointer to join two adjacent surfaces. My garage is 20'-8" wide and the jointer cutterhead is right in the middle so I have 10'-4" on each side. Just enough to run the beams, with the help of some shop made infeed and outfeed rollers.



 

Then I haul the beam over to my 26' bandsaw running a 1" carbide tipped blade to cut the other two sides. I rigged a long torsion box outfeed table to the bandsaw. I actually have two bandsaws but I'm using the second one here just to support the outboard end of the outfeed table. Small garage shop, ya gotta be efficient with space and tools.





Low and behold, it works.



 

The 14' beams will have to be joined with a circular saw and power planer but I can still bandsaw them.

The posts aren't dry enough to cut joinery yet. As I mentioned they are at about 13-14% MC. My plan is to leave them oversized (they are about 135mm square now) until they get to about 11-12% and then work them to finished dimension. Our rainy season here in Oregon will end in May. I hope to be able cut joinery over the summer and get this thing in the air and covered before the rain starts again in October. Fingers crossed.


Offline GRadice

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Re: Planning a Japanese inspired garden shed
« Reply #7 on: May 26, 2022, 09:02:08 PM »
A little more progress. The posts are down to about 12% MC and I have worked them to a couple of mm over their finished dimension of 120x120mm. I also decided to fill their relief kerfs using some of the cutoffs from resawing the posts. This was mostly an esthetic choice. If I was insulating the shed the kerfs would be buried in the walls and I would leave them open, but I'm not so these will be exposed and I decided I liked the way they look filled better.




 


I also worked down the floor beams and roof tie beams to just over final dimension. You can see them to the right. Those have been outdoors and are at ~14-15% MC so I'll wait a little longer before working them to final sizes.

The posts are just about ready for joinery. My plan is to first cut mortises and drill holes in the feet for the threaded rod and access for the nut to hold them down to the stones. Then erect and plumb the posts and scribe them to their stones and carve them to fit. Then shoot a level line for locating the floor and other joinery.

Offline flyingparks

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Re: Planning a Japanese inspired garden shed
« Reply #8 on: May 27, 2022, 09:11:43 AM »
Very cool! I relief cut...nice. 

Offline GRadice

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Re: Planning a Japanese inspired garden shed
« Reply #9 on: May 31, 2022, 08:52:11 PM »
Finally after almost two years I get to do some layout and cut my first mortises.

Japanese timber framing is layed out from center lines. Center lines are inked. I'm using a Tajima InkRite and Tajima black ink. All four faces will have their center lines marked.



 



 

Then I layed out, drilled, and chopped mortises that provide access to the threaded rod that will lock the posts onto their stones.


 



 

Then drilled out the hole for the threaded rod. I made a guide bushing first and clamped that to the post.



 

That got the hole centered. I left enough room, I think, for the washer, the nut, the threaded rod, and a finger to two to get the nut started.



 

I have two posts done. After I do the other four I'll be able to set them on their stones for scribing and carving. The mortises will be plugged and planed flush after the shed is all assembled.


Offline aigheadish

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Re: Planning a Japanese inspired garden shed
« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2022, 06:45:30 AM »
I admire your patience and skill. This is an incredible project!
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Offline timberframe

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Re: Planning a Japanese inspired garden shed
« Reply #11 on: June 06, 2022, 09:19:45 AM »
Finally after almost two years I get to do some layout and cut my first mortises.

Japanese timber framing is layed out from center lines. Center lines are inked. I'm using a Tajima InkRite and Tajima black ink. All four faces will have their center lines marked.


(Image hidden from quote, click to view.)
 


(Image hidden from quote, click to view.)
 

Then I layed out, drilled, and chopped mortises that provide access to the threaded rod that will lock the posts onto their stones.

(Image hidden from quote, click to view.)
 


(Image hidden from quote, click to view.)
 

Then drilled out the hole for the threaded rod. I made a guide bushing first and clamped that to the post.


(Image hidden from quote, click to view.)
 

That got the hole centered. I left enough room, I think, for the washer, the nut, the threaded rod, and a finger to two to get the nut started.


(Image hidden from quote, click to view.)
 

I have two posts done. After I do the other four I'll be able to set them on their stones for scribing and carving. The mortises will be plugged and planed flush after the shed is all assembled.
Line rule!  Very nice.
B

Offline rusticretreater

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Re: Planning a Japanese inspired garden shed
« Reply #12 on: June 06, 2022, 10:38:03 AM »
Fine work!  How are you going to tighten the nut? It looks pretty snug inside there.
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Offline ljohnsaw

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Re: Planning a Japanese inspired garden shed
« Reply #13 on: June 06, 2022, 10:20:55 PM »
 :P popcorn_smiley
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Offline JRWoodchuck

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Re: Planning a Japanese inspired garden shed
« Reply #14 on: June 19, 2022, 12:35:40 AM »
Thats a nice looking hand hammered hoop on that nomi. The joinery is ridiculous as well! 
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Offline GRadice

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Re: Planning a Japanese inspired garden shed
« Reply #15 on: June 28, 2022, 09:38:43 PM »
Fine work!  How are you going to tighten the nut? It looks pretty snug inside there.
There is just enough room for the nut and the plate washer, and two fingers. I checked! I do wish I had used 5/8" threaded rod instead of 3/4".
Next up is scribing and carving the post feet to their stones. A friend who does this kind of work told me that figuring how to do this efficiently "is a creative endeavor." He recommended using scaffolding to support the post when it was plumbed rather than try to screw braces to it, because you have to set the post, scribe, dismount it, carve, reset to check your work, and repeat until you have a good fit. Not so easy with a 60 pound post 10 feet long.
I made some shipyard staging horses out of 2x4's and 1x6s. I got the idea from the Bristol Shipwrights on youtube. The scaffold board is a 2x12 x 12'. To that I clamped an L-shaped cradle that would support and register the upper half of the post when I had it sitting on the threaded rod and plumb. To check that the posts were square to each other I made some mini-posts of the same dimension and the real post and ran a dry line around them all. Then I adjusted the post and minis until they were all square to each other (no gaps in the dry line) and tightened the minis down as my reference. I'm sure there are other ways to do this using batter boards and such but I did it this way.


 
To check for plumb I used a 4' long shop made version of Japanese plumb line level. Very simple, very effective. I fastened it to the post with a bungie cord. That made it easy to flip to the other face of the post and left my hands free to adjust plumb. I chalked the stone to transfer contact points to the post.


 

 
Then chopped away. Most of the work is done with a Japanese in-cannel gouge (sotomaru nomi). These are great because they can be sharpened on a regular flat stone. For carving I set the post(s) on a couple of low sawhorses. The dowel is there to prevent blowout around the hole for the threaded rod while I'm carving. The towel is for my butt. I also found it more comfortable to sit on two posts.


 

 
And one post done. I'll wash off the chalk later. Five more to go.


 

 
Other notes: I covered the site with 3/4" minus gravel to keep the dust and mud down. It will get covered when the shed is done with more attractive pea gravel. The rugs are to keep gravel off of the posts.



Offline GRadice

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Re: Planning a Japanese inspired garden shed
« Reply #16 on: July 02, 2022, 10:34:44 PM »
Four posts done. Two to go. For scribing I'm using these simple and cheap washers CYA glued to each other and a small nut. It works as long as the stone has smooth transitions, which mine do. Much easier than scribing with a compass. I made several sizes depending on the gap I needed.




 

The site. I just added a pop up canopy so I can work in the shade. Worth it. 





  




Offline aigheadish

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Re: Planning a Japanese inspired garden shed
« Reply #17 on: July 03, 2022, 12:14:49 PM »
Incredible scribing work! I'm envious of your patience, skills, and technique! 
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Offline GRadice

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Re: Planning a Japanese inspired garden shed
« Reply #18 on: July 04, 2022, 09:18:21 AM »
Thanks. I don't find the scribing and carving that difficult technically but yes, it does require patience. The first one took me about 8 hours while was figuring out a work flow. The last one I did took about three hours but still much setting and resetting the post.  I have one more to go today and then I'll finally get to shoot a level line. Then I'll be able to lay out the post joinery. Here's the view this morning from our kitchen window.



 

Offline thecfarm

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Re: Planning a Japanese inspired garden shed
« Reply #19 on: July 04, 2022, 09:28:26 AM »
Now that's a project!!
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Offline GRadice

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Re: Planning a Japanese inspired garden shed
« Reply #20 on: July 09, 2022, 10:11:33 PM »
Started laying out the mortises on the posts. I'm using a story pole. In Japan called a kensao or shakusao (very roughly a "space stick" or "shaku/foot stick." Same idea as in Western framing. I've never done this before so I'm going slowly. A few layout mistakes here and there but easily corrected.
I've also gone back to the joinery model I made last summer for a refresher. I've changed a few joints and added some since then. I also realized that I had to plug and relocate the mortises for access to the threaded rods. Long story but I had to adjust for the slope of the site and decided to reduce the overall height of the shed as a consideration to not to block my neighbors view from their deck.

I moved these posts into the shop for this part.





 

 

I'm also looking at roofing options. I'm probably going with a metal roof, and possibly terne shingles.




Offline aigheadish

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Re: Planning a Japanese inspired garden shed
« Reply #21 on: July 11, 2022, 06:33:44 AM »
Considerate of you to no block the neighbor's view! 
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Offline GRadice

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Re: Planning a Japanese inspired garden shed
« Reply #22 on: July 26, 2022, 10:41:35 PM »
Not much new to show, yet. I finally have all the main beams dimensioned but when I went back to my drawings to check the layout I discovered I needed to change the floor design, which meant I needed to adjust the floor framing and floor beam joinery layout. Good thing I hadn't started chopping, yet. I also refined the walls and roof which fortunately didn't affect the main framing layout. Here is the latest rendering of the shed. Let's call this V.2.0. There is a lot you don't see: ceiling boards, roof and flooring and wall cladding details. And a bunch of other details not yet decided. It's amazing to me, as a novice, how many decisions have to be made for such a small structure.




Offline aigheadish

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Re: Planning a Japanese inspired garden shed
« Reply #23 on: July 27, 2022, 06:19:55 AM »
"Novice" Hahahahah!
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Offline GRadice

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Re: Planning a Japanese inspired garden shed
« Reply #24 on: August 05, 2022, 10:31:30 PM »
"Novice" Hahahahah!
Well, I've never done a timber frame before but I have made a lot of furniture. Maybe I'll cop to "experienced furniture maker and amateur carpenter."

Not much new to report. As I've been doing the layout I found a few mistakes in my joinery drawings that I've had to go back and correct. One that would have made the king posts about half an inch too short. Not good. And since I milled my ridge beam it bowed about half an inch laterally in the middle. Trying to think through what that means for the rest of the roof layout.
 
I did commit to the roof cladding which will be Quadro panels made of terne by Finemetalrooftech.com.

https://finemetalrooftech.com/products/quadro-panels/

Offline JRWoodchuck

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Re: Planning a Japanese inspired garden shed
« Reply #25 on: August 06, 2022, 01:05:14 AM »
Hopefully you chose the copper panels. Really bring the building together!
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Offline GRadice

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Re: Planning a Japanese inspired garden shed
« Reply #26 on: August 09, 2022, 08:49:03 PM »
Well, the copper was a bit over my budget and I was worried about thieves stealing it. I went with terne (modern terne is tin covered stainless steel) which should last 100 years or more, was about half what copper costs, and shouldn't attract thieves. It patinas to soft gray which should look good with weathered wood.

I've started in on the mortises for the connecting boards that collectively are called nuki. They are similar functionally to girts but are thinner and taller and there are more of them than there are girts in western timber frame. The multiples provide the racking resistance that knee braces provide in Western construction. The nuki are colored tan.



 

These are sometimes layed out on the same plane and joined with half height mortise and tenons that overlap at the corner posts. I chose the other option which is to stagger the heights and use wedged half dovetails since I think they are stronger in tension. Although that does remove a little  more wood from the post. Here is one mortise done with a test half dovetail in scrap.









And assembled, but with the post horizontal since I was working on it.



 

There are lots of ways to make mortises. I chose to make a router template that registers with the centerline and use a router with collar to rout to a depth of 16 mm/5/8". That established housing for the nuki and also established a consistent reference for paring the mortise sides square to the surface. Then I augered out much of the waste. Mortises are a nominal 30 mm and the auger is 28 mm which gave me a little room for error in drilling without leaving too much waste to pare. The additional block sitting on top was to gauge the depth. When the drill chuck reached the level of the block I was done.



 

 

I have the mortises all routed and a few left to drill out. Then I'll go on to chopping and paring them square.




Offline JRWoodchuck

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Re: Planning a Japanese inspired garden shed
« Reply #27 on: August 09, 2022, 10:48:17 PM »
Im a roofing contractor in Eastern Oregon and had a client last summer that wanted copper drip edge and valleys. That bill was 9000 for materials. So I get not going copper I was more joking about the roofing. 
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Offline GRadice

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Re: Planning a Japanese inspired garden shed
« Reply #28 on: August 10, 2022, 12:11:08 PM »
Then you'll like this: for fun I inquired about getting copper shingles, flashing, and ridge cap from a supplier in Japan. The total cost with shipping would have been close to $10,000 per square. The rep and I had a good laugh about that, too!

Offline Tom King

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Re: Planning a Japanese inspired garden shed
« Reply #29 on: August 10, 2022, 01:39:29 PM »
Interesting that they are calling the tin coated stainless Terne. 

There was a company here that sold what they called Terne coated metal for roofing.  It was tin and lead covered regular steel, and had to be painted.  All that I ever knew anything about was standing seam. 

The roofs were commonly called Terne tin, which got changed to being called "turned tin" by most people that didn't understand the brand name being called.  A lot of people, including some historical "experts" still call a standing seam roof "Turned Tin".

That company was Follansbee Steel, and I think went out of business in 2012, put under by the snap together standing seam roofing.

Offline GRadice

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Re: Planning a Japanese inspired garden shed
« Reply #30 on: August 10, 2022, 04:55:14 PM »
This version of terne is made by Roofinox, which I believe is a German manufacturer. This gives some of the history and different combinations of metals used to make tern over the years.

https://www.roofinox.com/us/for-builders-renovators/terne-for-historical-buildings/


Gary

Offline GRadice

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Re: Planning a Japanese inspired garden shed
« Reply #31 on: August 11, 2022, 10:40:17 PM »
Anyone have experience using Japanese framing squares?

I am less than an amateur with Western framing squares so I can't really compare them. But I'm getting the hang of the Japanese square, called a sashigane or 指矩. I have a few of different sizes. These two are sizes that are most comparable to my old Stanley square.



 
 

I also have one that is about 6 inches long and one that is about 4 inches long. Those are great for checking mortise walls for square.


Sashigane come with various rules, including shaku system on both sides, metric on both sides, shaku one side and metric the other side, metric and inch scale. In Japan it seems it is still common to use the shaku system in construction layout but materials come in the metric system so they need both. Just like here we mostly lay out in inches and feet but sheet goods tend to come in metric. You have to learn both. In fact Chris Hall convinced the Shinwa corporation, the leading maker of measurement tools in Japan, to make a sashigane in inches and centimeters to be most useful in the West. The standard rules are used both for layout and to calculate and measure angles for roof framing, as in the West.

In addition to regular rule measure in each system, some sashigane come with an additional scale that is the rule times the square root of 2. That is mostly used to calculate the largest beam than can be sawn from a round log. Youtube has videos of that being done. Some have a third set of gradations that is the rule times pi. That is used to measure a circumference give the diameter of a circle. I guess if you are using round logs that would be helpful.

Here is one video of sashigane in use, including a clever way to use them as winding sticks. But they have other layout uses for timber framing




I will also say that their slim dimensions lets me use them as drafting tools.



Offline JRWoodchuck

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Re: Planning a Japanese inspired garden shed
« Reply #32 on: August 13, 2022, 07:57:20 PM »
Every fall I spend a fair amount of time on eBay adding to my Japanese tool collection. The sashigane is on the list but havent purchased one yet. Been buying planes and chisels. Slowly figuring out whats worth my time or not. 
Home built bandsaw mill still trying find the owners manual!

Offline GRadice

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Re: Planning a Japanese inspired garden shed
« Reply #33 on: August 13, 2022, 08:57:22 PM »
You didn't ask but depending on what you would use it for, I'd suggest starting with the 30 cm/1 ft version and think of it as combination square rather than a framing square. Large enough to use for timber layout and small enough to use for furniture making and drafting. They cost about $11 dollars new so a small investment to see whether you find it useful. You might have to tweak it for square but I don't find that difficult to do.

Incremental progress. I got all the mortises cut on two posts. One of the corner posts here.





I did have one layout glitch that led to a cutting glitch that required patching. However, I can't seem to find a picture of that.....

Each post seems to be taking me a couple of days to get the mortises chopped. I have four more to go then on to the mortises in the beams.

Offline GRadice

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Re: Planning a Japanese inspired garden shed
« Reply #34 on: August 17, 2022, 09:08:14 PM »
More slow progress. But as I heard a guy say recently, "Sometimes slow is as fast as you can go."

Part of the slow progress is because I dropped my slick on a concrete floor and of course it landed on the cutting edge. Not catastrophic, but chipped enough that it took me about 3 hours to re-sharpen. Penance.

I thought I would show this new-to-me way to peg tenons that I learned recently from an American who just finished a short apprenticeship in Japan with a company that does traditional Japanese carpentry.

Japanese traditionally use square rather than round pegs and also traditionally orient the peg square to the posts and beams. But Japan is also earthquake country and they spend time thinking about timber framing and earthquake resistance. Recently some group in Japan did a test of how resistant to tension were various ways to peg M&T joints and the winner was a new one. The essential features are that the square peg is rotated 45 degrees, and a kerf is cut in the end of the tenon. Here are the two versions:



 

The way it works is that the peg is slightly draw bored as usual. But when the peg is rotated 45 degrees and the tenon is kerfed, the peg slightly expands and wedges the tenon into its mortise. If tension increases on the horizontal beam, the tenon wedges more tightly and resists shear on the relish even more.

I have not seen the engineering data but intuitively this seems like a brilliant twist (ha!) on a centuries old joint. Or, maybe it has been thought of before and I just missed it.

In any case, I decided to jump in with both feet and use this on my shed for the floor beams to corner posts joint. In my case I also have overlapped the  tenons that meet at right angles on the post and have housed stub tenons to further support the beam and resist twist when the floor is loaded. This post is almost done:



 

 

 




Offline JRWoodchuck

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Re: Planning a Japanese inspired garden shed
« Reply #35 on: August 21, 2022, 12:03:28 PM »
I appreciate any input especially from someone that has experience with the product. It seemed like the last time I looked they were $60 ish and I have plenty of functioning squares. But at $11 ish that makes it much more feasible. 
Home built bandsaw mill still trying find the owners manual!

Offline GRadice

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Re: Planning a Japanese inspired garden shed
« Reply #36 on: August 22, 2022, 09:09:32 PM »
Right, the full sized sashigane are about $60 but the mid sized versions are much cheaper. I find the 30 cm/1 ft (long arm) version is fine for 95% of what I'm doing with this build. I'm using the metric/metric version without the square root or radius functions. If I was doing hip roof layouts I might go with one with a square root measure as well.

I was making good progress on the joinery but this weekend we brought home a little girl who will be taking up some extra time for awhile. My new bench dog, "Willa".



 







Offline Walnut Beast

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Re: Planning a Japanese inspired garden shed
« Reply #37 on: August 22, 2022, 10:44:27 PM »
Congratulations cut little girl!

Offline realzed

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Re: Planning a Japanese inspired garden shed
« Reply #38 on: August 22, 2022, 11:35:39 PM »
She's a real cutie - I bet she'll be a real 'going concern' in a couple of weeks..
Is Willa a Golden or Yellow Lab?
Either way that will be a perfect spot for her - they love to carry sticks of wood around all of the time!

Offline GRadice

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Re: Planning a Japanese inspired garden shed
« Reply #39 on: August 23, 2022, 12:52:44 PM »
Golden retriever, just over 9 weeks old. Yeah, pretty cute.



 

Offline realzed

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Re: Planning a Japanese inspired garden shed
« Reply #40 on: August 23, 2022, 11:46:58 PM »
We've had a couple and they are beautiful companions - very intelligent and trainable, but high energy for the next year and a half for you I would bet until she slows down!
The colour of her ears now, will be a pretty accurate indicator of what her colour will be when she matures.
I showed the picture to my wife and it brought tears to her eyes - remembering the ones we had - you get so attached to them that I don't consider that we could fathom ever getting another..
My wife's first comment was "ohho here comes trouble, keep anything wood related out of reach or it will be gone"..  :D

Offline GRadice

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Re: Planning a Japanese inspired garden shed
« Reply #41 on: September 01, 2022, 10:35:56 PM »
Despite the new puppy I've made some progress. I finished the 28 post mortises and am on to the three way joint between the tenons on the post tops, tie beams on the short axis of the shed, and eave beams on the long axis. This joinery pattern is called oriokigumi 折置組 and is/was used mostly for barns. Here is a picture from a book of joinery models. The tie beam sits on the post.



 


A stepped tenon on the post top rises through mortises in the tie beam and eave beam. The joint between the tie and eave beam is a cogged lap, called a watariago joint in Japanese. It is supposed to be as strong as a half lap joint but removes less wood. I can't confirm that but it's what I'm doing.

I started on the tie beam. I did the mortise first using a drill and chisels, checking for square. Then saws, chisels, and a router or router plane. I'm still working out the best method for my skills and tooling and tolerance for noise and mess vs speed. The bevel in the corner is to accommodate a chamfer on the the eave beam.



 



Offline JRWoodchuck

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Re: Planning a Japanese inspired garden shed
« Reply #42 on: September 01, 2022, 11:23:21 PM »
Im really enjoying this thread! Thanks for bringing us along!
Home built bandsaw mill still trying find the owners manual!

Offline GRadice

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Re: Planning a Japanese inspired garden shed
« Reply #43 on: September 02, 2022, 09:14:21 PM »
Thanks for the feedback. Im having fun trying to figure it all out. 
Gary

Offline GRadice

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Re: Planning a Japanese inspired garden shed
« Reply #44 on: September 03, 2022, 09:48:32 PM »
I finished the joinery for three tie/cross beams. The mortises in the centers of the beams are for the equivalent of king posts.



 


Edit: the beams are the ones shown here in brown.




Offline GRadice

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Re: Planning a Japanese inspired garden shed
« Reply #45 on: September 06, 2022, 11:02:57 PM »
Rather than complete the joinery for the post/tie/eave I've moved on to the joinery for the floor beams. Only because I already have them in my shop and moving the posts or eave beams would be a big hassle.

I started with one of the floor beams in the back of the shed since if I screw up my mistakes there will mostly be hidden. First off is one of the beams that will have a three-way joint.



 

Here is the right end of that beam. It will receive a long tenon from the floor beam to the right and be tightened down by wedges that insert into those half arrow mortises. I showed the joint model way up thread.



 

And the other end of the beam has a haunched tenon, some stub tenons, an unusual square peg that is rotated 45 degrees, and a kerf. The haunch and stub tenons resist twist without removing too much wood from the post and also help support load on the beam. The rotated peg and kerf is, I think, genius.

I found this way of pegging tenons in a blog post by Jon Billing, an American who worked for a time with Somakosha, a Japanese construction company that builds using modern versions of old Japanese methods. The link describes using it for furniture but it was born in timber framing.

https://www.bigsandwoodworking.com/maruta-bench-build-3/

Under tension, the tenon will tend to spread and increase resistance since it will be under compression. It will act more like a dovetail. Here is a sketch of the beam in my shed.



 

And here I am today. I haven't chopped the peg mortise yet. It needs to be draw bored and I am waiting to get all the other joinery done and test fit first.



 




Offline GRadice

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Re: Planning a Japanese inspired garden shed
« Reply #46 on: September 08, 2022, 11:04:59 PM »
I finished the second of two "rod tenon mortises" (a rough translation). This one is a little better than my first.



 

There is a subtle feature that the two little half mortises for the locking keys need to be tapered along their depth. I haven't been able to find a good description of how to layout out and cut these in English but I do have a drawing by a Japanese carpentry master name Shinzo Togashi that gives a clue that the tapers should be about 1/20th the width of the beam. In my case about 5-6 mm.



 

Here is one layout and finished half mortise. Chris Hall mentions that because of the taper in one dimension, ideally the key needs to be tapered in the other dimension as well but the second taper is very small.

 


 





Offline JRWoodchuck

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Re: Planning a Japanese inspired garden shed
« Reply #47 on: September 09, 2022, 05:12:49 PM »
Man those look like they are a bear to cut!
Home built bandsaw mill still trying find the owners manual!

Offline GRadice

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Re: Planning a Japanese inspired garden shed
« Reply #48 on: September 09, 2022, 08:56:55 PM »
The tricky part for me is finding a way to cleanly cut the right angled part of the wedge mortise. I tried different ways and think a small, fine saw is the way to go. I don't have a woodworking saw, either English or Japanese, that is fine enough and small enough to fit into the joint. I ended up using a piece of hacksaw blade. Once that cut is done, however you do it, the rest is all paring and pretty simple.

Dorian Bracht has a video showing how to cut a similar joint with just a chisel. I tried that it works but if your wood is at all squirrely it can get ugly.



This joint and variations of it are very common in Japanese construction. It is much stronger in tension than a pegged tenon and there is virtually no chance of shear failure or compression failure of the wedges. It can also be easily dismantled if you leave the keys long so they can be pulled back out. Or tapped in and tightened more if the wood posts shrink. But a lot of up front work.
Gary

Offline GRadice

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Re: Planning a Japanese inspired garden shed
« Reply #49 on: September 11, 2022, 09:21:36 PM »
Here is the male part of that mortise.



 

Since that member is only three feet long I cut the cheeks of the tenon on the band saw. Hand saws and chisels for the stub tenons, wedge mortises, and clean up.

As test assembled. The gap between the beams is where they insert into a post.



 

And a detail of the half mortises for the tapered wedges.



 

I am making the wedges parallelograms in sections. They can be made rectangular but that tends to spread the joint. Maybe not a big deal on wide beams. Parallelogram wedges are a little harder to make but are a better solution. Here are the two options from Chris Hall's masterful monograph on Japanese splicing joints.



 

 

 

Offline JRWoodchuck

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Re: Planning a Japanese inspired garden shed
« Reply #50 on: September 13, 2022, 12:24:09 AM »
What is the purpose of the kerf cut on the male portion of the joint? I see it wraps the knot so it looks specifically placed. 
Home built bandsaw mill still trying find the owners manual!

Offline GRadice

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Re: Planning a Japanese inspired garden shed
« Reply #51 on: September 13, 2022, 09:20:31 AM »
Ah. It's not a kerf, just a shallow check that happened to run along the tenon.

Offline GRadice

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Re: Planning a Japanese inspired garden shed
« Reply #52 on: September 22, 2022, 09:27:41 PM »
I have the peripheral floor beams done and am on to the two sleeper beams (obiki 尾引). Shown from below they are the two beams colored tan.



 

As you can see one of the sleepers is part of the three-beams-to-post joint and the other connects directly to two peripheral beams. They span 6 feet and are 130 mm x 110 mm, roughly 5" x4". The sleeper that joins in the post has a tenon notched to capture the long tenon of the peripheral beam. The notch is displaced 1 mm toward the sleeper shoulder to give a slight draw bore effect that pulls the sleeper tighter to its post.

The other sleeper is joined to the peripheral beam with a partially housed double tenon. This joint is subtle. It maximizes the strength of the sleeper without removing too much wood from the peripheral beam. It also resists twisting. Often these sleepers are supported in their centers by posts underneath. I don't think I need them in my case but I can add them. The sleepers are also notched for cogged lap joints with the floor joists. The cogged laps eliminate the need for blocking to prevent the joists from rolling over or twisting.

One final design to note is that the sleepers are offset downwards 30 mm from the peripheral beams to accommodate the elevation of the joists in their cogged laps.



 




Offline GRadice

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Re: Planning a Japanese inspired garden shed
« Reply #53 on: September 25, 2022, 09:15:40 PM »
Got the sleepers all cleaned up and moved on to the side floor beams. Those have pockets on their inner faces to support the ends of the floor joists. I chopped the pockets out on both side beams and then laid those beams and the sleepers side by side to admire my work:



 

Oops.

After picking myself and dusting myself off I figured out how I made that layout error (I won't bore you with it, just a dumb mistake) and decided my goof on that one side beam wasn't a catastrophe. I just need to even up the widths of those laps and pockets making them 52 mm instead of 48 mm wide. I haven't milled the joists yet and my stock is 60 mm wide so I have room to play. And nothing wrong with having marginally stiffer joists at slightly more than 2" wide rather than slightly less than 2".

Here they are almost all adjusted.



 

If I'm lucky this will be the worst mistake I make.

Offline JRWoodchuck

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Re: Planning a Japanese inspired garden shed
« Reply #54 on: September 27, 2022, 05:15:38 PM »
Really excited to see this get put together!
Home built bandsaw mill still trying find the owners manual!

Offline GRadice

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Re: Planning a Japanese inspired garden shed
« Reply #55 on: September 27, 2022, 10:05:13 PM »
Really excited to see this get put together!
Me too, but man it's still going to be a while. I was hoping to get it raised and roofed before the Willamette Valley rainy season begins again but prospects are looking dim. Plan B is to get the frame cut and store it over the winter while I work on the doors and windows and gable end lattices. Not the best idea to cut joints and let it sit because wood will move. But the wood is also dry now, not green, so maybe it won't move too much.
I see you are in Baker City. My wife and I were there in June on our way back from Yellowstone. Stayed at the very cool Geiser Grand Hotel and took a lovely early morning dog walk around downtown admiring the fascinating architecture. An Oregon small town gem.
Gary

Offline aigheadish

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Re: Planning a Japanese inspired garden shed
« Reply #56 on: September 28, 2022, 06:52:12 AM »
Could you fill the joints with scrap over the winter or that wouldn't stop it from moving enough to worry about? Maybe some extremely hard wood to keep things more still? (I have no idea if that possible, I don't really know what I'm talking about, just fascinated with this project)
New Holland LB75b, Husqvarna 455 Rancher, Husqvarna GTH52XLS, Hammerhead 250, Honda VTX1300 for now and probably for sale (let me know if you are interested!)

Offline GRadice

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Re: Planning a Japanese inspired garden shed
« Reply #57 on: September 29, 2022, 08:49:39 PM »
Could you fill the joints with scrap over the winter or that wouldn't stop it from moving enough to worry about?
That's an interesting idea. After thinking about, I guess I'm more concerned with the beams twisting or bowing and throwing the joints out of alignment than I am about the joint components shrinking or swelling. But, not much I can do about that. Perhaps do some partial assemblies?
I finished the joinery for one of the eave beams. For scale it is 13 ft long. The notches are for rafters on 1 ft centers. The ends have a mortise for a floating rod tenon that will join the barge boards to the eave beam.


 


 

 

Offline aigheadish

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Re: Planning a Japanese inspired garden shed
« Reply #58 on: September 30, 2022, 06:42:46 AM »
Duh, yeah, the whole beams moving makes more sense than the joints closing up on you...
New Holland LB75b, Husqvarna 455 Rancher, Husqvarna GTH52XLS, Hammerhead 250, Honda VTX1300 for now and probably for sale (let me know if you are interested!)

Offline JRWoodchuck

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Re: Planning a Japanese inspired garden shed
« Reply #59 on: September 30, 2022, 11:57:00 PM »
Glad you had a nice stop over. Pretty fortunate to have grown up here and get to raise my family here! Could you put it together in bents? Just for storage to keep things together? Although I cant imagine being dried to 11-12% theyll move to much
Home built bandsaw mill still trying find the owners manual!

Offline GRadice

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Re: Planning a Japanese inspired garden shed
« Reply #60 on: October 02, 2022, 10:06:32 PM »
Yes maybe do some partial assemblies. I have a 10x10 canopy set up outside that would mostly cover the bent equivalents during the winter rains. That would also give me more space in the shop for making the doors and windows and gable lattices over the winter.

I finished the other eave beam. Next up is the ridge beam sitting there on the right.



 

Offline GRadice

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Re: Planning a Japanese inspired garden shed
« Reply #61 on: October 08, 2022, 10:04:25 PM »
I finished squaring the ridge beam and backing it for the rafters.





Then layed out the mortises for the rafter ends. Sato and Nakahara's book has three approaches for framing rafters to ridge beams. I chose the second method since my rafters will be exposed and the pockets/mortises help resist twisting of the rafters.





 



Gary

Offline GRadice

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Re: Planning a Japanese inspired garden shed
« Reply #62 on: October 09, 2022, 09:22:35 PM »
Barge boards to ridge beam.


I'm using this joinery to attach the barge boards to each other at their miter. These are test boards to make sure I got the layout right. The tapered key will draw the boards in tight but I didn't tap it all the way in since if you do that, good luck getting it back out.



 

 

 

 

Then worked out the joinery that fixes the barge boards to the end of the ridge beam. It will be a loose tenon with a sliding dovetail in a slot on the barge board, and a horizontal stub tenon.



 



 

Offline GRadice

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Re: Planning a Japanese inspired garden shed
« Reply #63 on: October 28, 2022, 07:22:24 PM »
I took a small break from the shed to make a Japanese style birdhouse for a friend. I've done a couple of these before, he liked them, and I bartered in exchange for some black locust boards he has, that I'd like to use for pegs and wedges in my frame. So this really is part of my shed build.

The bird house has Port Orford cedar frame parts and panels with black locust barge boards and Osage orange ridge cap. Mostly joined with timber framing joints plus a couple of screws and some brass bits for the door.



 



 



 

 




Offline JRWoodchuck

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Re: Planning a Japanese inspired garden shed
« Reply #64 on: October 29, 2022, 01:46:33 AM »
 Awesome looking birdhouse!
Home built bandsaw mill still trying find the owners manual!

Offline GRadice

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Re: Planning a Japanese inspired garden shed
« Reply #65 on: November 01, 2022, 09:00:14 PM »
Back to the shed. I have sawn, chiseled, and routered most of the rafter pockets on the ridge beam. I made a rafter template to check the angles and dimensions of the pockets. New shop dog is not impressed. That hurts my feelings but she's cute so I'll let it go.



 

 

Offline realzed

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Re: Planning a Japanese inspired garden shed
« Reply #66 on: November 03, 2022, 12:16:38 AM »
Great looking birdhouse!
Willa looks like she would prefer you spending the time going for walks with her though..
She is getting big fast - and yes still cute! 

Offline GRadice

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Re: Planning a Japanese inspired garden shed
« Reply #67 on: November 07, 2022, 09:51:49 PM »
The three King posts done. All of 18 inches shoulder to shoulder. The other shop dog, Stella, says, "big deal". I thought dogs were supposed to adore us?

I laid out the tools I used to lay out and cut the tenons and square up the shoulders and cheeks. The 330 mm ryouba saw did most of the work. The little rectangular block is also a tool used to check the shoulders and cheeks for square and flat. Basically a gauge/gage block. Very handy.





 

  

Offline btulloh

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Re: Planning a Japanese inspired garden shed
« Reply #68 on: November 07, 2022, 10:08:45 PM »
Those planes with the angled irons look interesting. Not familiar with angled irons. I use a couple Japanese style planes, but hadnt seen angled irons before. 
HM126

Offline GRadice

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Re: Planning a Japanese inspired garden shed
« Reply #69 on: November 08, 2022, 09:22:26 AM »
Those are skewed rabbet planes, called kiwaganna. They are tricky to set up since the blade angle can't be adjusted except by sharpening. But boy are they handy for adjusting tenons and shoulders.
Gary

Offline GRadice

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Re: Planning a Japanese inspired garden shed
« Reply #70 on: November 12, 2022, 08:52:16 PM »
Got one of the stepped tenons on one post finished. Not my best work but OK I think. It took some trial and error to figure out a method to cut the long rips. I eventually settled on slanting the post on a saw horse for most of the cut, flipping the post occasionally. With a pull saw, holding the sawing line on a rip cut is easier when cutting uphill against the grain because the far end of the saw is guided by the existing kerf. Although the saw does tend to catch more often than cutting downhill.

I have a template of the mortises to check the fit.



 

 

 


Offline GRadice

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Re: Planning a Japanese inspired garden shed
« Reply #71 on: November 27, 2022, 05:54:24 PM »
I finally finished all of the stepped tenons.



 


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