Domestic mutt or coydog?

[mike_belben]

Im about 3days into rehabbing this dog and wondering if its not full canine.  I thought maybe a pitbull or bull terriers blocky skull and shorthair, with tall, stiff shepherd ears and dual fur layers.  maybe some mountain cur donated that bony frame and long skinny forearms.. those are all common of the self breeding pack mutts that run all around here.  The snout is narrow for a pit and wide for a coyote. Im starting to think the stiff ears that never move...long furry low tail that never sways, and straight forearms with no taper, the arched back when seeking scent...might be coyote features.




 Ive seen all sort of temperments in domestic dog but none even close to this one.


Behaves like a wild animal and by all accounts is living wild among the predators and parasites.  Shes extremely calm, has shown no aggression to humans or other dog nor any playfullness.  Strictly business with this dog which boils down to eat, bed, sleep and slink away.  Doesnt even pay any mind to conventional sounds, like snaps calls, squeeks, kisses or sweet talk.  Uninterested in my other dog.

She seems to want light companionship from me at 3feet, will reluctantly follow me, but shows no signs of wanting to be pet and has never wagged a tail or shown any sign of dominance or submission.  More like a forlorn independence.. "Im hungry and dont mind your company but i dont need you." 


She is leery of being touched other than on the snout or head.  Has eaten from my hand gently but is also reluctant to do so.  I have never seen her teeth or heard her make a sound.  Its like an old doe more than a dog.  Just lays down in a coil and beds in complete silence. She has a very energy conserving demeanor, like a starving deer.   Moves as slow and minimal as possible.


What do you think?

[doc henderson]

I do not know the answer, but if raised/survived in the wild, may not be socialized like human associated puppies.  good luck, and be careful with your kids.  May not want company but to hungry to avoid it.  It may be the greatest pet you ever had.  watch for kid trying to wrap arms around her and give a hug.  may just be a one man dog. 

[Raider Bill]

Looks well fed.
How big is it?

[Nebraska]

Here she would be a rez dog. A well mixed mix.. Seems she chose you.  I would make a pen of cattle panels  outside of a shed and feed her in there and gradually  get her to the point you can handle her and you can close it for short periods of time.    She will come around I bet. I agree with Doc's apprensions about kids and other folks. 

[WV Sawmiller]

  I'm with others on whether it is pure dog or coyote mix. My little Rat Terrier Sampson was 9 months old when I got him and had never been socialized. The owner fed and watered him but never petted or played with him. He will only come to or let me or my wife pet him. He has never snapped at others wanting to pet him but he does not like it and when not on a leash others can't touch him. After a few days with us the grandkids can pet him but he never seeks their attention, just allows it.

   Yours looks pretty well fed and healthy if she is truly a feral animal. Good luck with calming and gentling her. Does she bark - you said she never makes a sound so I assume not. Have you had her around other dogs? Do you know how she reacts to them?

   When I was a kid we had one that was pretty wild and I eventually gentled him. The final step to get to pet him was jealousy. He'd get close but not let me pet him. I'd call my other dog (There was no dog aggression on either's part) and pet her and this one would come closer and closer till he was by my side then rolled on his back when I'd pet him. After a couple of sessions of that he'd come right to me and rush to beat the other dogs for attention.

   Good luck. 

[mike_belben]

if you look at the pic with the fence wire.. thats 6x6 inch fence holes and a cut down McCafe coffee can for a bowl.  and her body isnt any wider than it. a black dog is hard to photo in the sun.  especially with a pitbull face, the contrast of shadow makes lumps look like ripples of muscles when theyre really joints and bones and sockets covered in skin and a winter coat.  she has zero fat. her coat is quite nice for wild but she is definitely starving hungry.. im sure the worms are eating most of what ive fed her which has been quite a lot.


so my experience started with her coming to the fence for a few days where i toss scraps that i dont want in my burn barrel to be scattered, or in my septic to clog.  my own identical looking black pitbull named bella checked her out (this wild dog is named pity or piti.. short for pitiful.. and me taking pity on her) and there was zero drama. they were nose to nose at a fence they could both get their heads through and no barking or challenge.  just about touched noses for a minute and both parted nonchalant.  neither seems challenged or threatened.


so i started feeding this starving creature since the Lord has fed me when i was pitiful.  she has eaten gently out of my hand.. gentler than my own dog that sleeps inside. so thats good.  

one day she didnt show up and i figured she got eaten by one of the 3 or 4 yote packs.  yesterday she came back.  i got some mini milk bones and went around to that part of the fence and sat in the abandoned dirt driveway.  she wouldnt close the distance until i started halving it with bones.  she had one from my palm, and the last one was with her head going through a loop but she backed out  and put some distance before i could gently close it up.   before long im out of bones and we are just sitting in the shade on the dirt about 5 feet apart, for like 20 or 30 minutes.  she just lays out and closes her eyes. a very sleepy dog. soon as she is comfortable its nap.. every time.   so i get up and walk away.. and she follows at 30 feet but wont come all the way with me.

i call for the boy to get me the bowl and food, and i get it at the fence.  now shes interested.  i let her eat out of the bowl while i hold it a minute.. then i remove it and walk away.  zero sounds, no aggression, fully docile. she follows cautiously.  let her eat some more.  repeat until we have walked into my open gate.  i put the food in the center then when shes on it i circle back and close the gate.  shes cautious but not too scared.  

she was captive inside my 1 acre "pen" about 2 hours, during which time momma and me introduced very cautiously and at a minimum of 30 ft distance, the kids and bella on a leash. i had a pistol just incase but pity has simply no concern about any of it.  id almost wonder if she was blind and mute except she definitely isnt.  2 times i have encountered lone does that let me in their proximity like this and it feels very similar except i didnt feed does.  i have never heard pity make a noise.  not even a stick crack. she slinks in silence.


so at one point im on a stool and shes fully sprawled, eye closed in the sun 2 feet away.. im just barely petting her snout or forehead with a fingertip and she is neutral about it.  not pulling back or leaning in. and shes just got her eyes closed.  the ticks are huge, pregnant, little ones are crawling on her fur and its driving me nuts.  ive got some permethrin horse spray and decide i need to try to treat this mess before it spreads to bella.  well with the first spritz of that Pity was out, straight to a single broken link of the fence i hadnt noticed.. she wiggled through a 6x8 hole like shes done it every night.. probably in the process of scattering my burn barrel through a rust hole that keeps growing.  aha. no wonder she wasnt too scared of being in the yard.  she went right back to our normal meeting spot and bedded there until dark without making a sound, then disappeared probably to a den.  she has very long dew claws but all of her toe nails are very short.. in my experience thats a digger.

yesterday i gave her a cure-all pill in a piece of bread.  heartworm, dewormer, flea tick mite etc.  i hope to see her looking better and better in time.  and next time i wont rush her trust.  im treating her like a racoon rather than a dog.  since she shows no emotion the teeth may come before a sound.  kids obviously are dying to run to her but im not allowing it until its a vet tested and approved dog if ever.

[mike_belben]

what my gut is telling me, is that this is a wild living critter with good instincts for survival that are ever present.  but that mode is struggling to suppress centuries of domesticated instincts it cant fully hold back when in my presence.  its getting a glimpse of comfort in the midst of its uncomfortable, rugged, hungry life.  fully wild deer, particularly does, will always bed in the securest feeling spot they can find in close proximity to food and water, and pity seems just the same.  

a domesticated stray runs right into your house as soon as you let it smell food. this dog will not go near my door.  im sure its always watching that spot i emerge from whenever robbing my trash.

[Corley5]

  You're a good man Mike   If she allows herself to be rescued she'll make a good dog.  I've heard that coy dogs are very paranoid :-\  
  We've got a dog nicknamed named Piddy.  It's short for stupid  ;) ;D   Her actual name is Roxie.  She responds to both names :D ;D  She's a really good dog and means well but isn't the brightest dog we've ever had   Mountain Dog Cocker Spaniel mix she is. 

[mike_belben]

pid short for stupid  :D :D

thanks corley.  this is the kinda dog you see with impeccable behavior, following a hobo across a walmart parking lot or a busy 6 lane intersection, backpack 7feet high, smelly junk clanging all over with a dog thats never been collared.  they are so serious about survival they just dont screw around.  

[barbender]

I'm not seeing any 'yote blood, but I've certainly been wrong before. Definitely pitbull blood in te mix. I live on a reservation and you see a lot of semi-wild dogs like that in the villages. Some act just as you describe, Mike.

[alan gage]

From my limited experience I'd say once the dog puts some meat on its bones its energy levels will pick up considerably.

Alan

[Runningalucas]

I think somewhere in Tennessee, or Kentucky, are natural wild dogs; millennias old.  There are a few breeds of these types of dogs out there; the Alaskan Malamute is one, as well as the Mexican Xolo; both going back thousands of years.  We happened to pick a dying puppy off the road in 'no where' Mexico; turned out to be a Xolo.  We paid 3000 pesos in vet bills saving it's life, and now we've got our dog!  She's going on 13, and every time we take her to the vet, the vet stands amazed at her physique; which is layered muscle, and narrow snout.  The vet said that the layering was unique to basically 'habitat' wild dogs.  I see a lot of those same 'layers', and breed type stuff going on in that dog you have.

No idea what you've got there,  but I think the super muscular body, mixed with a narrowing jaw line, is for digging small burrowing prey out of the ground.  I cannot say for your dog, but Mexico, and Central America are loaded with wild dogs; when a native starts feeding them, they'll hang around out in the street permanently, and will mess anyone up who comes near their meal ticket in an aggressive way.

[doc henderson]

I can see spine and ribs.   when she is full each day and back to normal weight, maybe her true personality may shine through.  she may make a great pet, or may be tolerating everyone now for a good supply of food.  who knows where she came from and what she endured, possibly at the hands of humans.  hard to know where she thinks she fall in the pecking order.  so far not at the top, but also not at the bottom.  As a pediatric ED doc, I have seen the worst doc attacks on children, never to be the same.  so I am slanted that way.  Mike you are a good dad, and in touch with animals.  it will be a judgement that you will make.

[WV Sawmiller]

Mike,

   I try to sneak in some wormer in some soft feed for her. You might even get her to eat some pills or powder that help remove ticks and fleas until she gentles enough you can spray or put a flea collar on her.

   My wildlife professor (Dr. Keith Causey - Head of the Wildlife Dept) at AU a couple hundred years ago when I went there, did his doctorate thesis on Wild Dogs in Ala. I read it in the Journal of Wildlife Management and one of his findings was that the wild dogs he studied had to have a supplemental food supply. They would scrounge and catch some of their food but didn't catch or find enough to survive indefinitely. One source he found for one pack was a landfill. Another was a TV tower where birds would fly into the guy wires and kill or injure themselves. One of the first things he had to do in his study was distinguish between a free ranging dog that had a home to go back to and a totally feral dog that ran at the first contact with any human.

   I think you will eventually get her tamed and it could be a very rewarding experience but I think you will have to have more patience than a goat farmer to complete the task. Keep us posted.

[WV Sawmiller]

Running Lucas reminded me of a tale our guide in Peru told us. He took an American out in the jungle to photograph jaguars. I think he had game cameras set out to photograph them. He tried to buy 2 roosters from a village to stake out and attract the cats. The roosters would crow at each other all day and attract the cats. The village did not have any spare roosters they sell so he bought a puppy to tie out. The howling and whining would do the same thing. They'd tie the puppy out and go back to camp and each morning they'd wake up and find the puppy by the fire waiting for breakfast. The one night he did not chew through his rope a jaguar did come by but the puppy kept his mouth shut and did not get noticed and survived. The happy ending was the American tourist fell in love with the puppy, dropped it with a vet for treatment and quarantine and finally flew it to the USA. He spent several hundred if not thousands of dollars getting the puppy home but he had a happy forever home in the end. 

[Runningalucas]

I can see spine and ribs.   when she is full each day and back to normal weight, maybe her true personality may shine through.  she may make a great pet, or may be tolerating everyone now for a good supply of food.  who knows where she came from and what she endured, possibly at the hands of humans.  hard to know where she thinks she fall in the pecking order.  so far not at the top, but also not at the bottom.  As a pediatric ED doc, I have seen the worst doc attacks on children, never to be the same.  so I am slanted that way.  Mike you are a good dad, and in touch with animals.  it will be a judgement that you will make.

Children move awkwardly; any dog of prey, even well trained can be lead astray by the very distinct movement of small children.  On top of that, most parents, let alone their kids, truly have no clue about what a dog is saying by it's posturing, and expressions.  The worst morons are the ones who lean in with their faces, or move in quickly for a quick, "good boy petting action'. 
Dogs are cute, and cuddly for cold weather, not to be handled like a teddy bear; people need to remember that, and also that they have those big teeth for tearing meat, and tissue apart.  I guess more specifically, people need to learn respect for an animal who has it's own line of thoughts.

[doc henderson]

I agree.  dogs still have genetic ingrained qualities, like many hunting dogs that do it naturally.  some breeds are one man dogs.  they really only take correction from the alpha in a pinch.  pets need to be socialized and even then may place themselves above the children in the pack they have adopted.  Out German shepherd has a bark that tells me someone is in the yard and or drive.  I go see who it is.  some who do not know us hesitate to get out of their car, and that is fine with me.  I can call her back if she is at the front property line barking at a dog being walked.  If I get a shady guy trying to coat my driveway and his partner starts walking around and looking at my property, I tell them not to come in the yard cause if I was not home, they may get bit.  

[moodnacreek]

These type of dog/man meetings go case by case. Dog not raised by human hands and not real young makes it tough especially if children are around [many grown ups are children also]  Wild dogs are wormy and never had shots and worst of all may not be trusted when they get a belly full . {also like some humans]. I either dig a hole or adopt it. This opinion coms from experience both good and bad. Whatever , man needs to be responsible.

[Sedgehammer]

I agree.  dogs still have genetic ingrained qualities, like many hunting dogs that do it naturally.  some breeds are one man dogs.  they really only take correction from the alpha in a pinch.  pets need to be socialized and even then may place themselves above the children in the pack they have adopted.  Out German shepherd has a bark that tells me someone is in the yard and or drive.  I go see who it is.  some who do not know us hesitate to get out of their car, and that is fine with me.  I can call her back if she is at the front property line barking at a dog being walked.  If I get a shady guy trying to coat my driveway and his partner starts walking around and looking at my property, I tell them not to come in the yard cause if I was not home, they may get bit.  

Never, ever, never and then still don't tell someone that they may get bit, ever, never. You tell them that your dog is a guard or a working dog and it takes it's job seriously. If you tell someone or have signs that says your dog bites etc, you are admitting that your dog is dangerous and you made it much easier for the ambulance chasing lawyer to sue the local doctor....... Just my 74.392 cents worth.....

[doc henderson]

It is reserved for the guys who cannot stand still, and mouth is moving even when they are not talking.  the latest one has cleaned up, but still has the movement.  My dog has never bit anyone, but does bark.  a little fear is ok.  This guy knocked on the shop door but was parked in front of the house and must of got my daughter at the door, who sent him to the shop.  I do not want him coming to the house when I a not home.  He can listen or not.  If comes in the middle of the night, he will wish for the dog.  she (Libby) always lets us know if there is an animal in the yard.  I appreciate what you are saying, and as I said, the neighbors go past and walk in the drive way with no fear.  Libby even barks at me when I drive in.  funny thing, is when she hears an alert on our life 360 that someone is home, she barks and goes to the door.  I guess she needs a cell phone.  dogs are still basically animals and look after the pack.  The worst is grandmas dog, and the grand kids come over to visit and hug the old dog, not accustomed to children.  If someone comes into my yard and the hair on my neck stands up (methy senses) then I make it clear for them to not just drop in day or night.  

[barbender]

I've had the unfortunate experience of having one of our daughters bitten by one of our much loved, and typically mellow, dogs. She needed 15 or so stitches in her forehead, I don't think she was 2 yet. I never trust dogs around kids. The ones you don't trust usually don't cause you problems, because you're treating them with the reservation that is required. 

[doc henderson]

as you may guess, there is more to the story.  I also have a sheriffs deputy to my east, and a federal courthouse policeman to the north.  they all love my dog, and will testify to the effect that she is not vicious.  he went on to tell me that he had a bunch of stuff stolen and he was always helping people out. I told him we do not have stuff stolen as our GS hears every little thing in the yard, and if she is barking, we let her out.  @barbender , I agree.  the kid is inadvertently/innocently getting in the dogs space.  we have had infants who's dad thought they should meet the big dog, and lost a hand and forearm.  lots of face injuries that are not reparable, and death.  there have been at least 3 incidences of meth guys I have dealt with trying to get into a house they thought they lived in with a big dog inside trying to get them though the door.  they do not remember that they do not have a dog, and they are at the wrong house.  not much more to say.

[moodnacreek]

Years back we took in black  female pit bull mix that looked like this dog except for the long ears. She had the same white markings. She was fearful of everyone and tricky to get tied up. I realized why when I picked up a stick one day, someone had beat her. I think it was 2 months before I got a tail wag at feeding time. I got a vet to come here and give her shots. She would bark and scream at people and froth at the mouth. She hated my mother, a blond who was a big time horse and dog person. If you tried to take something out of the shop, in her reach, you got blocked but if she knew you you could pet her. A nasty female pit bullish watch dog on a chain, Squealer never bit anyone. Maybe that's what you have.

[doc henderson]

Libby has a steady bark that tells me someone is driving or walking in the drive.  I can talk to her and she is ok.  if someone lunged at her she would turn and run but then bark louder and faster as it scared her.  I am always responsible for my dog.  she knows who is boss.  my BIL and his wife have 2 enormous dogs, they fight with each other, they caution all visitors not to let them sniff a hand, they were never socialized with other people.  i worry for people visiting or wandering into their back yard.

[OntarioAl]

Mike
You say there are Meth Heads in your area maybe this young dog is a survivor of a batch of puppies produced by a neglected dog owned by a Meth Head
I agree with the advise given take your time and win her over with food and kindness
Cheers
Al

[zippski]

I agree.  dogs still have genetic ingrained qualities, like many hunting dogs that do it naturally.  some breeds are one man dogs.  they really only take correction from the alpha in a pinch.  pets need to be socialized and even then may place themselves above the children in the pack they have adopted.  Out German shepherd has a bark that tells me someone is in the yard and or drive.  I go see who it is.  some who do not know us hesitate to get out of their car, and that is fine with me.  I can call her back if she is at the front property line barking at a dog being walked.  If I get a shady guy trying to coat my driveway and his partner starts walking around and looking at my property, I tell them not to come in the yard cause if I was not home, they may get bit.  

Never, ever, never and then still don't tell someone that they may get bit, ever, never. You tell them that your dog is a guard or a working dog and it takes it's job seriously. If you tell someone or have signs that says your dog bites etc, you are admitting that your dog is dangerous and you made it much easier for the ambulance chasing lawyer to sue the local doctor....... Just my 74.392 cents worth.....

Yep, correct.  The newish ambulance-chasing list lawyer sez:
When I have a dog-bite client in my office (whether defending in provincial offences court or suing someone who's dog bit my client) the first question I ask them is "Did you have a "Beware of Dog" sign stapled somewhere on the premises?  If they answer "Yes", that's all the proof I need of the requisite foresight/knowledge that you own a dangerous dog. 
Actually, not am ambulance chasing lawyer, I do primarily high-end divorce law :D
..although some folks see that as the same thing...
...and yes, in Canada it's spelled "offences"
Leigh 
zippski

[Tom King]

Our Daughter has a rescue dog that looks like she could be a littermate.  This is Zilla.  She was also a bag of bones when she came home.  

Now, about 6 months later, she's a Great dog.

My Daughter had DNA done on her.  It came back mostly Lab, German Shephard, Australian Cattledog, and Pug.  Pug is either in everything, or everything is in a Pug.  Surprisingly, there was not a trace of Staffordshire Terrier.

I think yours, when she gets some meat on her bones, and a healthy gut, she'll be a great dog.  I'm not sure that she's not deaf though.

One rescue dog I had, when I was building my first house for sale, and I was a young man, was heard howling a pitiful howl a little ways off in the woods, from where I was working.  I found a young female, solid white.  She had chewed all the fur off her tail, and her drop ears were so full of fat ticks, that they stood out.

I wasn't sure she was going to make it.  I didn't have any money then, so didn't take her to a Vet, but did the best I could.  I pulled all the ticks out of her ears, and off her body, and filled her ears with Hydrogen Peroxide until it stopped boiling.

I fed her good, and she laid under the porch of the house I was building for at least a week.  I already had two other stray dogs.  She went with me to my Mother's house one day, and she asked me what I was going to name that extra dog.  I told her I didn't know if she was going to make it, so I didn't name her, but she just gave me an idea.  I named her Xtra.  She was a great dog, and lived a full life.

[Patrick NC]

Except for the ears, she has the same build as our mountain cur. Bay is a small dog with a thick neck and chest for her size. If I can get the wife to send me a picture, I'll post it. 

[mike_belben]

things are going good with pity, shes already turning into a good dog.  

[Corley5]

 8) 8)

[moodnacreek]

things are going good with pity, shes already turning into a good dog.  

Those mutts that come in from the woods often do. What really messes a dog up is having too many homes and dumped a couple of times. About the third time that happens they get possessive and dangerous and at that point must be put down. People can mess up an animal.   I am glad for your Pity, she came to the right home.

[Chuck White]

I'm going mostly by the shape of the head, I'd say it's part Pit!

Slick looking dog though!

[mike_belben]

Thanks guys.  

Doug ive been around a bunch of these little anxiety riddled psycho dogs and its always the owners who need fixing.  My grandparents created the worst little lapdog POS and it bit everyone, eventually running off my grandmothers caretakers.  I shoulda put on welding gloves and drowned it in a toilet.  Ive been trapped in the middle of two locked up pitbulls and got a complete fang buried in my index finger long ways once.  That ankle biter fufu was way more vicious.  


Americans are great at giving dogs human traits and the problems that come with it.


Anyways pity and bella have been introduced several times. Pity has tried to jump up on her and show dominance but got a swift smack on the head then slunk to my heels.  Im the big dog in this house, you two get in line and behave or i'll flash my teeth.

She submits to me as of yesterday, licked my hand once and today even frolicked and rolled around in the grass for a few seconds.. I guess she feels secure enough to let her guard down and play a bit.  The ticks and fleas are all dead, hopefully the scabs and dermatitis all the parasites have caused starts clearing up.  Shes got a good thick coat but very ashy, crusty, flaky skin.  And a skeleton directly under the skin.  Very bony.. Hope to see that fill in.


Its been almost freezing overnights and windy/cold today.. Shes bundled up on a cushion under a blanket and loving it. Soon i will collar her and when warm enough try giving a bath.  She lets me pick through her fur and pull stuff off so we are on track.. Putting a blanket on her the first time in cold drizzle made a big difference in trust.

Wife got some stuff at the co-op to start treating for lymes and i expect that to bring out a new dog, based on past experience.


Still never heard her make a sound, and never flashed any teeth.  Avoids the kids by a few extra feet but no agression.. Were taking that very slow.  She definitely sees and hears fine.

[moodnacreek]

Well Mike I see your a dog person from way back. Man's best friend out sees, out smells and out hears us and can be trusted. It's a shame they don't live longer.  Problem around here is the fools from the city get interested in dogs and get 2 when they have no idea how to control one, [like their kids]. If it gets to them they drop em off at the pet motel where they take credit cards. Quite the relationship.    Pity will enjoy you looking for ticks pretty soon. Keep being the big dog, they all came from wolfs and need their leader.

[mike_belben]

What brand of mutt am I rescuing here? - YouTube

[mike_belben]

Well.. After a few bowls of food, one monthly pill and one days worth of lymes antibiotics that dog is night and day.  She chased a rabbit at about 300mph.. And then took me all over the woods where i hunt but she knew crawl spots under fences id never seen before.. She could barely stay awake when i met her.. Was so hyper out in the hollars today and wanted me to follow her.. "Cmon cmon i gotta show you my place!" was how it felt.  


 No collar or leash and she doesnt obey me but she comes back to me every few minutes and she makes sure to be back in the gate before i shut it and lock her out.  Only had to do that once.  Today i left with the front gates open.. She had trotted off down the street.  Was on the porch when i got back.  "Home is where my bowl is."


Im quite confident now that she has been surviving fully wild and the probability of some coyote blood is pretty high, theres packs all over out there, a few thousand intact deepwoods acres with hardly an atv trail.  

[WV Sawmiller]

Mike,

   Does she bark like when she was after the rabbit? Someone suggested she might be deaf. Does she respond when you call or whistle or such or does she read lips like Deffinbaker on Due South? :D

   It sounds like a real rewarding experience so far and I trust you will continue to enjoy the fruits of your labors.

[mike_belben]

She has barked a few times with a startling command but is mostly stealthy.  No sound during the rabbit chase.  But my other dog didnt bark when she joined either.   

Pity can absoletely see and hear quite well.  Shes starting to get playfull with me and doesnt really know how to do it right.  Its peculiar. 

[moodnacreek]

It's all about trust when going in the woods. A big mistake many make is not being there when the dog comes back to check on you. It works both ways after the trust is built like when the dog doesn't come back to check the 'hunter' he knows there is an honest reason and waits. After a while the 2 can wonder but still find each other and even establish meeting places. Actions speak louder than words.              So Mike took Pity in and now Pity is taken Mike huntin. About as good as it gets. I'm jealous.

[mike_belben]

Ya know its really something.  One of those things you cant fully capture in words, nor on film.. You just have to live it.  Like when i was getting to learn the strengths, weakenesses and individual personalities of my 2 very different, pre-programmed kids who were raised the same but came out unique just to confound me and make me realize sometimes i need to reformat me for lack of being able to reformat them.  Its funny how growing up never ends for us.  


So as Pity's illness diminishes, her nature comes out.  And with the two dogs together i am seeing the clash of two worlds.  Bella the pampered pit teaching Pity how to be domesticated.. And Pity the honed hunting machine teaching bella how to be a stealth ninja survivalist.  Theyre outside playing right now, great for both of them i think.  And good for me because together theyre very intimidating dogs for a meth head out window shopping the fence line, which is constant for me.



This dog is a thing of intrigue for me.  I wont pay ancestry.com for my background but i'd pay for her DNA history.  I cannot capture it but in person you can just feel theres a coyote in there.  Bella is a bumbling clumsy idiot in comparison because shes never had to catch food.  Pity is an incredible tracker who absolutely freezes in place when a stimulus hits her.. Its not fear, its skill.  Shes in her very sharp brain, calculating.  Most of the time bella is just staring off being dumb without a thought or a care.  Its easy to catch bella off guard, not pity.



I'm calculating that Pity's starving is simply a case of tick borne lameness getting in the way of her succeeding at dinner, and some domestic blood instinct said, this is the end if i dont find food.. Submit to a human and live.  She could not stay awake when i met her and laid down to sleep at every chance.

A day and a half of antibiotics and its a new creature.


She barked in henry's face yesterday afternoon with authority so i had to make a decision.  First was the walk, if she wants to be wild then off you go. But she chooses us over and over.  If i lock her out she will dig back in.


Lack of submission is what makes a dog dangerous.  When they have an incorrect view of their position within the rank structure of a family unit.

My way to deal with dangerous dogs is to provoke it to give me the teeth so i have cause for clear and immediate correction. Dogs dont speak english but they all speak kapow. I train a pitbull by grabbing its tongue right out of its mouth in my fist.  When i have vividly coerced it to no longer give in to its instinct to chew on me, but instead use discipline and not chew on me, its safe.


Pity is very independant but quickly being domesticated.  It only took one slap across the face after nipping me,  for her to hunker down low - tail slack, ears flat - and put her head in my hands. She has surrendered authority and now im her daddy.

After that i just show each child that every child here is mine and none will be harmed by anyone.

I will have to get her a chain soon.












^ theres the coyote.  She heard me inside at the table clear my throat, from about 80 feet away. 

[mike_belben]

[...]Children move awkwardly; any dog of prey, even well trained can be lead astray by the very distinct movement of small children.  On top of that, most parents, let alone their kids, truly have no clue about what a dog is saying by it's posturing, and expressions.  The worst morons are the ones who lean in with their faces, or move in quickly for a quick, "good boy petting action'.  
Dogs are cute, and cuddly for cold weather, not to be handled like a teddy bear; people need to remember that, and also that they have those big teeth for tearing meat, and tissue apart.  [...]

Exactly this.  
I let sophia pet pity for the first time yesterday while i had a hand on the dogs neck scruff and naturally sophs first thought is aww sooo cute and starts to lean her face in.  I said soph you should expect this dog to lunge up and rip your face off.  You give her the wrist of your weak hand to sniff and be in her way, so your strong hand can block your face.  if she bites its the meat of your weak forearm which doesnt hurt as bad and leaves your strong hand to punch her eyes in or choke her out.  A forearm bite is easier to bandage and heal than a bunch of broken, punctured hand bones and severed tendons. 

[doc henderson]

Mike I am glad it is going well.  new member of the family. 

[moodnacreek]

The difference in the 2 dogs is that one struggled and one didn't.  No different than us. When the belly gets close to the backbone the brain starts to work. So simple.           So Mike she took a nip at you and got put in her place. Timing is everything and the sooner that happened the better.  Her job will be to protect the family. I wish everyone understood our best friend like you do.

[mike_belben]

If only a swat still worked to get obedience from my kids!  

[Tacotodd]

What's the latest word on Pity, as of today? I hope that Sophi's encounter with her went fine. I'm just really wanting to see how things turn out. I've had 1, and only 1 so far that nipped at me aggressively, and I had to do the deed. My friends got their panties in a wad over me doing that, but I'm like "you want me to put an aggressive dog in my vehicle to take it to the vet, pay stupid money to have him do the same thing when a lead aspirin is MUCH less expensive", I mean, really. They've gotten over it, but I think it's stupid.

She seems like the kind of good dog that people dream about, but time WILL tell!

[mike_belben]

Its going great.. I will try to tell some tails about her soon. But the plot has thickened.. She rolled over just now and i think i see a spaying tattoo!  

[moodnacreek]

Its going great.. I will try to tell some tails about her soon. But the plot has thickened.. She rolled over just now and i think i see a spaying tattoo!  

Yeah, they dumped her. Well at least she won't come in heat.

[mike_belben]

Soon i will be able to roll her over.. She submits to me a little more every day.  But she is also a vicious killing machine.. I will explain it all later, working on a bunch of stuff in this perfect weather.  no nothing bad has happened.  Anyways i need to see the marks longer to be sure but she may well have been domestic before becoming feral.. Definitely has survived a spell on her own. 


Only a fool would part with this dog and that fool better not come calling here for her. Shes home.  

[Bruno of NH]

Mike ,
Smiley was a rescue from the south , is a hunting and killing machine. I have lots of rabbits on the property,  they don't fair well that and birds.
She also doesn't know how to play. Loves the out doors.
Has a wild side unlike any dog I have had before.

[Bruno of NH]

Smiley feet are giant for her size.
My black lab Max was 100lbs and his feet weren't that big.
See runs faster than any dog I have seen.
She is super loyal to me .

[mike_belben]

Timber, quarry stone and rescue mutts are likey tennesee's top 3 export commodities!

[Bruno of NH]

My point about Smiley 
I think she has some feral dog blood in her. 
When a rescue dog comes from the south they most always call it a lab mix , so it will be adopted. 
Smiley snout is definitely not lab her teeth are all messed up.

[mike_belben]

Its funny how dogs go up 81 to get rescued and taxpayers come down it!

[moodnacreek]

Never trust a man who won't own a dog.

[mike_belben]

LoL... I used to say never trust a marine who hasnt been NJP'd.  (Non-judicial punishment.)


Seems all my best buddies were troublesome and those who werent couldnt be trusted. The military loves promoting slimy brown nosers and busting down the jarhead that wont hesitate to get shot trying to drag your corpse back for mom.  

[mike_belben]

Gettin her cleaned up.. Still a lot of dandruff and crustiness from the parasites that wrecked her skin but shes gettin there.  Ribs less prominent, tail stands up again, tons of energy, never naps at this point when previously she couldnt stay awake.  Comparing this dog to the one that slinked its sorry butt over here i think she was in a delirium and close to being dogfood. 

[mike_belben]

For anyone reading this with a similar basket case project in mind, we have not gone to the vet at all and have spent next to nothing on this transformation.  


For parasites and dewormer she has had one dose of nexgard spectra from our other dogs regular supply.  And for the lymes or whatever caused the lameness we are one week into a twice daily tetracycline pill from the Co-op.  Its an antibiotic that works on tons of stuff.  Youll start to see a different animal in one day if youre successfully treating lymes.


Thats $1 per day and i stick it in a fig newton that just disappears.  If a young tick covered dog youre trying to save has an elderly demeanor and walks on eggshells or whimpers for nothing, favors all different feet like theyre cold when its warm out.. Thats usually some kinda lameness from infection.  Ive paid vets a fortune for it over the years when some cheap pills to fix it woulda cost less than the check in.  Nothing against vets and im certainly not one.. But ive learned a bit from years of getting the ER bill.


And a big thank you to FF member Nebraska for helping me out with this project.. Who actually is a vet.

[Bruno of NH]

She's looking good

[moodnacreek]

Judging by the large head that poor girl went without for quite some time probably during youth also. It's all in the past now.

[mike_belben]

Dogs are doing excellent.  Heres the $1/day lymes pill from the co-op thats been magic.

[WDH]

 

 

Here is my Georgia Black Dog.  She was dumped and came to the sawmill.  I started feeding her when she would come to the sawmill.  She was not in good condition  She would eat, then leave.  After about 3 weeks of that, I told my wife that I would not feed a dog that I did not take care of.  Managed to catch her, got her spayed and got her her (Tom) shots.  Every month she gets her heartworm and flea/tick meds.  She goes to the vet once a year for her shots and to get checked for worms/parasites.  She still comes up and eats, then leaves. She hangs out mostly at my brother's house, but they don't feed her.  She is now my wayfaring, wandering, prodigal stray.  Her name is Boo because she was so afraid of everything when she first came to the sawmill.  All you had to do was look at her and say, "Boo", and she would run away.  She lets me love up on her, but none of my customers can touch her.  If I am tardy in feeding her, she will talk to me sternly in her dog vocalizations to "Hurry Up!!"



 

No matter what I do or where I go, I always makes sure that she gets fed. 

[Walnut Beast]

That's pretty awesome, nice and interesting 

[moodnacreek]

Man at some point stopped eating dogs and started using them. They became domesticated , cross bred, high bred , whatever and no longer wild and like cats, unable to do well on their own. We made fools of them. They are our friends and our responsibility.

[mike_belben]

good on ya danny. that sounds just like pity.  she has a need to come and go as she pleases.  if i keep her locked in she gets stir crazy.  if i let her go she runs off and i say goodbye.  hour later shes back on the porch.  so i guess we are coming to an agreement.  when shes fed she sure acts independent.  when shes hungry i make the rules.

[Tacotodd]

That's sounding like a man when it comes to a woman. I'll not elaborate 🤬

[mike_belben]

The girls are doing good.






And heres one from the archives when old bully just had to lick the cheetohs dust.  He had covid style before it was cool.

[Roxie]

That's absolutely awesome!   :D :D

[mike_belben]

 ;D

Hi rox

[doc henderson]

mike, either the tails are out of focus, or you have some happy dogs.   :D :D :D   

[mike_belben]

I think shes gonna make a good hunting dog, which ive never had before.  She takes her own way out to the spot and her own way back home when she feels like it.  Will definitely get bedded critters up on their feet. 


Got the ribs filled in pretty good by feeding the heck out of her for a few weeks.  Now down to once a day feedings. 

[Bruno of NH]

She's looking good Mike
Thanks for saving her.

[moodnacreek]

Ditto

[mike_belben]

Shes a happy camper.  Best dog i ever had. 

[Southside]

They always know when they have it good. 

[Tacotodd]

It looks like she starting to put on weight now that the parasites are not eating all the nutrients.

[moodnacreek]

They always know when they have it good.

Home sweet home.

[HemlockKing]

You'd never know that dog was even feral now. Looks healthy as a ox. Well done 

[mike_belben]

It looks like she starting to put on weight now that the parasites are not eating all the nutrients.

Yes.  What a difference since april.  Knowing who she is in good health makes me realize she was almost dead when she dragged her sorry ash to my fence.

Before:






After:

You'd never know that dog was even feral now. Looks healthy as a ox. Well done

Well, it turns out she wasnt feral.  Has a spay tattoo.  How she went from being fixed to homeless and starving to death i dont know.   A while back a neighbor recognized her at my house as a wild dog he had fed a few times over at his place but ran her off when she was ripping his garbage bags open.  Im gonna guess thats when she went seeking and found the hole in my fence that let her raid the rotted out sides of my burn barrel at night.  I kept thinking it was bella.
I still dont know what she is.  Doubtful any sort of coyote blood.  It was her meager demeaner from being ill that made me say "this isnt ordinary domesticated animal."   She behaved like a fawn.  Total silence, all motions supressed until the very last second to escape something.  That sorta thing.  
She was definitely once an indoor dog.  But very much a vermin hunting outdoor guard dog now.  Nothing gets by her.  she hunts the tall grass every day at dusk and dawn like clockwork.  Still more aloof than my other but a lot more lovey than she was.

[newoodguy78]

The shine of her coat is a dead giveaway she's well cared for now.

[Nebraska]

Looking good Mike.

[Bruno of NH]

Thank you Mike for taking her in and giving her a new life.

[Roxie]

I love her!  

"Bless the beasts and the children 
For in this world 
They have no choice 
They have no voice"

Happy tears...

[WDH]

You are a good man, Mike Belben. 

[mike_belben]

Thanks guys.  Weve been trying to rescue a family member and children on my wifes side for atleast a year now and what a pile of extended drama that is.  If only people were as simple and as appreciative as dogs!  Fixing the dog up was so quick and easy. 

[mike_belben]

Three Rescued Mutts - YouTube


Theres my trio.. Bella, Pity and Roxie.  All free rescue mutts. 
 

[mike_belben]

House sitting for a friend who is in denial about their dogs mange.  Thinks he is "allergic to flea bites" but theres no fleas on him or me when im there. 

His tail is bare in the middle and rump is on its way.  He is gonna need hair on it soon or hes gonna end up frostbitten out on the unheated porch. 

[WDH]

You have a fine pack.

My Veterinarian daughter has some very interesting stories, not about the patients, but the clueless neglectable and the just plain neglectable patient owners. "Your dog has wire in his stomach.  How long has he been throwing up?"  "Oh, about two weeks."   It can be very sad, and there are some sad outcomes.  

Some people should not be allowed to have pets or children.  

[mike_belben]

Thanks danny.  Bank account still empty but the Lord keeps adding to my riches.  

[mike_belben]

finally pinned this little runt to hold still for a picture!

[doc henderson]

markings on the face, make it look like she has a big smile, and I am sure she does.  Not sure @Roxie will appreciate you posting bare chested pics of her namesake on the internet!!!  

[Ron Scott]

Well done Mike!

[Roxie]

She's a cutie from any angle. 

[mike_belben]

1 pill.  nexgard spectra mail ordered from australia.