Gypsy Moth Defoliation

[chuck172]

In Sussex County, N.W. NJ, we have had a bad time with gypsy moths again. My question is : How do I know for sure that the defoliated Oaks are indeed dead and ready for me to drop for firewood.?
I think I read once that an oak will leaf a second time during the summer. We have had
gypsy moth infestations for a few years now.

[Ron Wenrich]

Most often, a tree that is going to survive will leaf out again after the infestation.  Usually that's sometime in July.  But, even though they releaf, there is no guarantee that they will survive next year.

Right now, there isn't any 100% way to figure out if the trees are going to be dead or alive, except to wait until they leaf out again.  Then, figure you'll still have some mortality next year.

A tree that is dead will sometimes have the bark start to pop off.  In some cases, shoestring rot occurs under the bark, and the bark will come off in large pieces.  I've seen that mainly on black oak.  You also might see signs of boring bugs that will leave traces of sawdust on the bark.  That's also an indication that the tree's pretty much of a goner. 

[chuck172]

Thanks Ron. I'd hate to make a mistake and cut down some nice oaks for firewood when they might still survive.

[Riles]

It takes repeated defoliation to kill a tree, so if you didn't have problems last year, I wouldn't make any assumptions about this year.

The thing to watch for is OTHER problems that come with defoliation, because mortality usually comes from a combination of problems. Drought, insects, pollution, fire, soil compaction, string trimmers, etc.

[SwampDonkey]

String trimmers sure are hard on yard and lawn saplings with a yahoo behind it.  :

[chuck172]

If an oak has been defoliated and if it has no second leaf growth that  same year, its' dead right?
Now,  or very soon,  any oak without leaves can be culled?

I do understand that even if it has a successful 2nd. re-leaf it may still die next year.

[Ron Wenrich]

Usually, that's a pretty good assumption.  There's  few things going on.  The big one is that buds are stimulated by sunlight.  When you see a stand that has been thinned to hard, you'll get leaves coming out on the bole.  They're called epicormic leaves, and they come out in response to too much sunlight.  So, it seems that if its not responding to sunlight, it might be dead.

If it was me, I would take out trees that don't have very much crown.  Those trees have been crowded out and are under more stress than those with better crowns.  Red oak tends to survive moth defoliations better than black oak. 

It sounds like you want to cut some trees, but are unsure which ones.  Leave your crop trees and remove the poorer quality trees.  If you don't get the dead ones this year, you'll have plenty of time to get them in the spring.  Since you're cutting firewood, you don't really have any time frame that is pushing for any salvage operations.

[chuck172]

Fact is I don't really want to cut any of them. They don't need to be thinned, but if they are indeed dead, "DEAD" I 'd like to take them out for firewood.
I lost some beautiful trees this year due to repeated de-foliage by the gypsy moth. Right now as I type  the caterpillars are turning into brown moths by the thousands. I get very little re-growth due to deer browsing and I have to be very selective in thinning.

[SwingOak]

Well if it was me and I wanted to keep the trees, worst case I'd wait until spring. But I'd say if there's a target nearby like a house, I probably wouldn't wait that long. Of course, if it was in my yard I would probably have sprayed it with BT.

You could always cut the bark a little or a few branches and see if it leaks anything. If it's in the process of growing new leaves I'd think you'd get some tree juice flow.

[tonich]

I have to totally agree with Ron.

You should not let the grass grow under you feet, but watch the situation very closely and act accordingly

Good luck! 

[routestep]

About a month ago I was hiking on the Tuscarora trail South of Carlisle PA. Going through Col Denning state park I was supprised to see thousands of caterpillars - gypsy moth types - everywhere. On the trees, on the ground, on my pack, and on me.

I stopped for lunch and pitched my tent to escape the flies and mosquitoes. I kept hearing a background noise and thought it was a light rain at first. Turns out when I struck my tent to pack up a fine dust of black droppings came off my rain fly. I'm pretty sure it was caterpillar dropping raining down on me from the trees. It made an audible noise!

Sorry to all you gents that have to deal with gypy moths.

[SwampDonkey]

Yes you are probably right about the droppings. I have heard the same noise/sound 25 years ago when we had the army worm on the move. That was 3 loooong springs I don't hope to see again. We even had a rail road back then and the rails where greased up by those creepy crawlies.

[SwingOak]

Yes you are probably right about the droppings. I have heard the same noise/sound 25 years ago when we had the army worm on the move. That was 3 loooong springs I don't hope to see again. We even had a rail road back then and the rails where greased up by those creepy crawlies.

There are sections of oaks in South Jersey that were completely defoliated. It looked like winter, and sounded like it was raining, but it was raining caterpillar poop. You could actually hear them chewing. Most of the trees in this area are starting to grow new leaves now, but the lack of rain isn't helping speed it along.