Sawing Methods for Hemlock - How would you saw this?

[WELumberjack]

I am currently doing a custom sawing job in central Wisconsin of 34 hemlock logs of the following dimensions with my WM LT-30 hydraulic for what I believe are parts for a cabin build. I estimated 2,700 board feet (Doyle) from these 34 logs. 

Inventory:
12' long (5 logs) - 19", 13", 12", 12", 9" (small end diameters)
10' long (9 logs) - 25", 24", 22", 22", 15", 15", 14", 14", 14"
8' long (20 logs) - 20", 19", 18", 17", 17", 16", 15", 14", 14", 14", 14", 13", 13", 12", 12", 11", 11", 11", 10", 10"

I'm curious for any sawing methods to maximize yield, but also quality for sawing the logs into pieces:
1) 7.5" thick with 2 live edges, as wide as possible. - Goal is to make steps out of these.
2) 2.5" thick, as wide as possible, but no live edge.
3) 1" x 10"

Sorry, I wasn't given a quota/cut list of how many of each is needed; I was more or less directed to optimize getting as many of each of these 3 options out of these logs as I can. I don't know if more hemlock logs will be available in the future.  Thanks for any descriptions or diagrams for how you would approach this.
 

[terrifictimbersllc]

I wouldn't go to that job without more information. You need lengths, quantities and priorities of one to three and you need to know what number two is used for. I suppose you can guess that the one by tens are for siding.

I have shown up at a few jobs over the years, where this level of information was presented , the actual user of the wood was not there, and got that person on the phone to get some clarification.

" as many as possible"
" as wide as possible"
" whatever you can get"
Some of my favorite phrases

[moodnacreek]

I would saw 2 sided cants 7 1/2" and 5 1/4 [or your kerf] " wide and take all 1" boards to get them. Edge as many 10" boards as possible from the sides. Tell the owner he has to take the boards less than 10"  Being it is soft wood you may be able to do some 2 1/2' sides.

[Old Greenhorn]

I HATE getting lists like that. It tells me the client has very little idea what they want and probably has not planned out their project completely. But the real issue is that he/she just made you their decision maker for them. You are paid to SAW, not make size choices. I used to get list like this and it would say: 6x6's, 5pcs, 2x10's, 24pcs, etc. Then I have to play the game: "How long for each?", "What Species?", and "Interior, exterior, framing, dunnage, wane tolerance?"

 When you start sawing, you should have exact targets and then you can add some qualifiers on them such as 'Mill the rest into [this]' . If you don't have enough good logs to make the list then you can't change that and it's not your problem, but you need a more exact target to aim at. You will likely waste a lot of wood too. Without that goal, it's a non-starter for me as is. You are allowing yourself to be set up for an unhappy relationship.

 Are you familiar with Hemlock? If not, do some research here. If so, then pass those warnings onto your customer ahead of time about possible shake loss and log stress.

[WELumberjack]

Thanks DJ, Moodnacreek, & Tom (OG) for responding,
A little more background/clarity to my situation.  I got my LT-30 in October 2022, so I'm a newer sawyer.  I don't have my own land, but my sawmill is located back in the woods on the property of an excavator who supplies me with logs to saw.  These logs are from his excavating jobs and otherwise would go to a landfill, get buried, or turned into firewood. (Kind of like urban/salvage logs in a sense).

The initial goal was a "win-win" situation: I saw for him for his needs for his excavating fleet - side boards for dump trucks, trailer decking, etc. and can use his land/space.  Any slabwood eventually becomes firewood and I don't have to worry about sawdust cleanup as it is in a clearing in the woods.  I have a supply of logs as I'm gaining sawing experience.  If I have a chance to sell what I saw in the future once things dry, then so be it.  I've been following along with Yellowhammer and OTW's (Nathan's) YT videos (among others) and have attended some education classes via the DNR/LSLA in Wisconsin to enhance my learning in addition to tips from Forestry Forum threads. So far in the past 15 months, the species I've sawn both softwoods and hardwoods. Red pine, spruce, maple, red oak, white oak, and yellow birch. This is first time I've sawn hemlock. I'll do some research. Hence my post.

My saw kerf is 1/8" - I have a bandmill and using WM double-hard 1.25" wide 9-degree blades. I'll switch back to 10-degree blades once logs thaw in the spring.  I stick with 9- & 10-degree blades since I have the 24 hp Onan engine.

What I'm looking for in posting this thread is ideas/methods for sawing to maximize these logs for the board types I'm trying to end up with. Kind of like a chalk drawing on the small end of the log for what I'm trying to yield. Obviously I'm not going to get 1x10s out of the smallest logs. But that's no big deal. What I get will go into my air-dry board inventory.  These are his hemlock logs and I'm sawing these "parts" for building a hunting cabin.

What part of the log cross-section would you focus on getting the 7.5" stair steps from?  Include the pith? Avoid the pith completely/"box the heart"?

I will ask for more clarification on quantity goals and priority of parts #1-3, but who I'm sawing for isn't there while I'm sawing each log. I'm glad I could use some of your "favorite phrases" DJ. You are right Tom/OG, in this case I have the flexibility to make those choices (for good or bad).  I will try to get more specifics/clarification on "as wide as possible." There's not a lot of pressure for results in this job, but having the clarity helps to avoid "wasting wood."

Thanks,
Ben

[WELumberjack]

Here are some pics of the hemlock logs I'm working with (not sure I've got down the methods to posting pics with the new format, but the links are there to the gallery):
12' Logs
https://forestryforum.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=352503

10' Logs
https://forestryforum.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=352504

8' Logs
https://forestryforum.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=352505

[Magicman]

Yikes !!  Your logs look cold !! 

[WELumberjack]

Thanks Magicman, Those logs are living outdoors in central WI. While we haven't had our usual cold and snowfall this year and may have an early spring, we did have some snow in early January when I took those photos.  I'm curious how you would approach my project.  Do you saw much hemlock down in MS?

[Magicman]

As da man says, I have told you more than I know already. 

No Hemlocks in Mississippi, but I would recognize one if I saw it.  It's the tree that the limbs give you a flat hand wave when you pass by.  

[Stephen1]

Yikes !!  Your logs look cold !! 

They sure do!

[moodnacreek]

In your thick stuff you want the heart in the center. To make good lumber there will be some unwanted sizes.

[Ianab]

What I'm sawing now is a bit like that, no specific cut list, just make what you can....  And that goes for the wood I'm keeping from the job too. So I'm just cutting "boards that might be useful"    Lots of 2x4, 2x6, 1x6 etc, and some random  live edge slabs for table / bar tops etc. 

So going from the "wish list" the 10 - 12" logs aren't going to make many 1x10s. Maybe whack those into the 2.5" and edge as needed. As wide as possible is all you can do. If that's 9" or 6", that's what you get. 

The medium size logs should make "step" sized 7.5" live edges, and get a few 1x10"s or random 2.5" from the outer slabs. Basically just take the top and bottom 1/3rd of the log off and make what you can. Keep the pith in the middle of the 7.5" chunk. 

The bigger logs you can set up to saw down to a 10" wide cant, make either 1x10 or random 2.5" from the top and bottom third of the bigger logs. Stand your middle 10" piece up and make 1" slices to the deck. There will be a bit of "thinking on your feet" as you work out what you can recover from those outer slabs. If you are maximising recovery, they you might get some random 1x6, or  1x12 boards from those initial cuts. 

But it's a trade off between best production / best recovery, and the cut list. If the customer doesn't want that first 1x6, then slab heavy and throw it on the rubbish pile 

[petefrom bearswamp]

Speaking from a good bit of Hemlock experience.
BEWARE OF SHAKE.

[SawyerTed]

Getting the cut list details worked out would make the solution easier.  The quantity of each would give a lot of direction on which logs will make which pieces.

At least you have more information than I get sometimes.  Customers respond to questions about cut lists with, "I just want boards."  Hard to go wrong there.  Usually they see 1 x lumber coming off the mill and want a variety of other dimensions. 

Most hardwood customers seem to know what they are wanting.  Softwood customers  and customers with mixed species seem less particular.  Most often the more detailed the cut list is determined by how the logs were acquired.    

I have a few customers who buy and sell logs and lumber and they give the best cut list details.  The customers who cleared some land,  had a tree service cut trees or have logs from storm damaged trees seem to have less of an idea of what they want. 

[WV Sawmiller]

   If my customer has a specific build like a fence, barn or shop or such in mind they typically have a decent and often detailed cut list. If they are just trying to salvage cleared, dying or downed trees they often just have a general list of what they frequently use and tell me to cut that. Often it is a mix with a specific cut list for a few logs and cut the rest into some kind of general stock.

[WELumberjack]

Thanks everyone for their input/advice. I'm back sawing for a bit today and hope to use my newly made set of "Magic Hooks" for the first time to move some logs around.

[Magicman]

Congratulations on making Magic Hooks.  You will very soon realize their value. 

[WELumberjack]

SO, I asked to get some clarification yesterday from the excavator (who's hemlock logs I'm sawing for (potentially) an outdoor cabin build) as to what priorities and quotas, as was suggested above. He or his buddy don't know exactly what they are building, but I did get a bit more clarification.  I now don't need to saw 2.5" (10/4) material... I can just take 1" (4/4) boards off the sides and edge them (whatever width they yield), but the goal of 6", 8", or 10" widths.

Also, I only need 1 live edge for the 7.5" thick "stair" treads, instead of 2! I was told to make those stair pieces 14-16" wide.
-----------------------------------
Problem was, before I could even finish sawing the 19" diameter, 12' hemlock log I had on the forks, I raised my sawhead 6" and heard a snap and the head stopped raising. One of my 2 up/down chains master links on my LT-30 broke on the bottom. Each evening/when done sawing for the day, I have the habit of resting the sawhead on the travel pin.  Maybe that's the cause of my problem.  I found these two FF threads and calling WM technical support very helpful in my repair process. I have a new up/down chain tensioner bracket kit on order from WoodMizer and now have a couple #40 master/connecting chain links as spares in my sawing spare parts toolbox.

WM up/down chain repair and upgrade - https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=69368.msg1040957#msg1040957

Bracket, Up/Down #50 Chain Tensioner bent and Master Link blown out - https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=70960.msg1065788#msg1065788

So I didn't have the chance to inaugurate/christen my Magic Hooks, yet!  Maybe next time!  The temps were in the low 50s with the sun out. Snow was melting and the ground turning to mud. What a weird winter in Wisconsin this year!

[Stephen1]

I have found its okay to drop head but bump it up so the head hangs on the chain, versus putting up pressure on the chain.

[WELumberjack]

Update: So I've made some progress through ~1/3 of the 34 hemlock logs I'm sawing into the customer goals of 1x10s & 7.5" stair treads with 1 live edge. Here's a few pics:

Hemlock logs lined up to be sawn:


Stickering & stacking 4/4 boards - 12' ones on the bottom pallet, 10' ones on the upper pallet.  Pallet verticals & stickers are spaced 16" on-center. 
 

A pic of the 7.5" stair treads with 1-live edge


I've dealt with some shake; but not too bad.  I've also made 1x4, 1x6, & 1x8s from the sides/edged boards that won't yield 1x10's.
Ben