hi all
What is out there for tracking logs. like maybe somethin as simple as a excell spred sheet for tallying logs to a full on software system
Thanks
Woody
Basic log tally handheld computer and software will set you back about 4k or so. If you want to track tagged logs all the way through the sawing process on a desktop inventory system..around 20K.
I use a Juniper Allegro CX with Timber & Transportation Systems software for log scaling and timber cruising. Mine is about 5 years old and never a minutes trouble.
If you're scaling very many logs its worth every penny..when you get to the end of the run of logs..your done..hit print and write the check(s). Different prices for bids, a specific tract, producer or logs in the field...it will generate a new price table. Prints reports by tag, species, producer.
I buy about 2.5 million feet of logs a year. Do you think a system like yours would be cost effective for a small mill like mine?
Woody
What is it that you're trying to do?
Found this on the web, I suspect there are lots more systems if you dig a bit.
http://www.timberbuyer.net/toolbox.shtml
Whack o' logs calculator
happy new year,
DGDrls
Quote from: dgdrls on January 01, 2012, 09:49:45 PM
Found this on the web, I suspect there are lots more systems if you dig a bit.
http://www.timberbuyer.net/toolbox.shtml
Whack o' logs calculator
happy new year,
DGDrls
Now That's Funny....
I'll let someone else explain why. :D
It's kinda like being in the twilight zone. ::)
If one were to click on the little red tool box to the left, one might find similar looking scales and whack-o-whatevers as the link posted above.
Quote from: Jeff on January 01, 2012, 09:51:25 PM
...................Now That's Funny....
I'll let someone else explain why. :D
What goes around, comes around. 8)
DGDrls is a good hound dog. :)
touché !! :D
What do you think the chances were I would fine the one on the web before the one under my nose.
"I don't see the milk, are you sure we have some?"
Quote from: smwwoody on January 01, 2012, 12:36:07 PM
I buy about 2.5 million feet of logs a year. Do you think a system like yours would be cost effective for a small mill like mine?
Woody
I think if you ever tried a handheld you would wonder how you ever got by without one. As far as tagging and tracking individual logs I wouldn't think so. I find that even in reselling logs things come back to averages and now I just track my inventory by log count.
Scaling on the machine isnt much quicker but once the logs are scaled your done and you have eliminated the math errors except for keying in the wrong data to start with. The newer handhelds will stand up to about anything except being run over by a loader and while scaling logs in a downpour isn't fun you can keep right on going with the computer.
The system I am using gives me report options like dollars spent for the day/week/month which can be sorted and filtered by species, producer etc. Log counts, species totals, species averages, diameter and length averages etc.
In addition to the basic printed log tally, the various summary reports are very handy for paying contractors or stumpage thats figured on a bd/ft basis.
Quote from: Ron Wenrich on January 01, 2012, 03:45:03 PM
What is it that you're trying to do?
Hi Ron
What I want to do is;
scale my logs manually then enter them into the computer to get a monthly total on footage and be able to break it down by specie, logger, and a few other variables.
and maybe something similar for lumber.
I just got a computer in the mill office and i know it can make it a lot easyer to track what i am doing now with pen and paper. I am not real sure what I need or how to go about it.
Woody
I believe you could do a lot of that with spreadsheets. The new Excel program has some amazing sorts you can do with a database. I've seen it take megabytes of info and put it into a usable form in a matter of seconds. You just need to sort it out which variables you want.
If you're looking to see how logs turn out, then you need to do a mill study for yield. It can either be for value or volume. Value is a better indicator for the hardwood mills. Volume can depend on the size of blocking and the thickness of lumber sawn.
When you put in sawing times for your logs and your sawing costs, then you can get to a realistic value for the logs. Very few mills do this, especially the smaller mills that could benefit the most.
Bigger mills will do this with tagged logs. They know how much they paid for the log and who the scaler was. You're usually talking some higher valued logs and the margins are a lot tighter. If you mess up the grade, you're in big trouble.
Ron,
I know very little about excell except that it can do what i want done. I guess i just have to sit down with it and get it done.
as far as the mill study i did a good sample one week per month last year and have an ok handle on that end of it on paper.
I'd be willing to bet that what you want already exists somewhere in Excel. No sense reinventing the wheel. You can probably search it out. Might have to modify it a bit to suit your needs, but you'd probably save a lot of work. If you know very little about Excel, you'd have quite a bit of work (time) ahead of you. Just a thought.
Norm
Think Excel for dummies ;)
Shoot me a PM with what you need I can help you out with excel. I had to use it a P&G when I was playing a electrician for their stuff now I use it for my tracking, It is easy to make do what you want(you just have to know how). I have 2007 version so if you have older it might not convert but if you have 2010 it will convert itsself first time you open it. I have yet to make the doyle log scale work in an excel spreadsheet but have thought about it and if I keep up with this I will have to soon.
Doyle scale = (diameter - 4)^2 * length/16. Maybe if you use the formula you wouldn't need a table.
Some of these cell phones or blackberry types might have a spreadsheet program to. I had an old Windows CE handheld computer that I found a free spreadsheet program that had all the functions you'd ever need for tallying and calculating footage.
At one point, I tagged all the logs. The sawyers wrote down the tag numbers. Those got entered into excel by a woman that was proficient on the program. We had them by mixed hardwoods, oak, and cottonwood. Once a year I could inventory the numbered logs and we could make an adjustment. A few years ago, during a brutal winter, I got behind tagging and finally gave up. I miss being able to know overrun, but a lot of things it couldn't tell me. When we flow the product from a log into multiple orders and sizes, its not feasible to figure all that out. I still haven't figured out what I want to do, if anything. It really comes down to a basic accounting question. Is it material? Worth the cost? I am not sure that it is for smaller operations.
FF member Wes Lyons once wrote a program for paying loggers and such. I don't remember what all it did. He might still have it.
All that extra stuff takes a lot of time, I bet the small guys just want to saw. As long as they know what's coming in for logs they can say yeah I can saw your order. Or no, I don't need any more 16'-14" red oak for awhile. Tracking every piece of lumber like a Home Depot is overkill, since when you saw you have a market for that piece to begin with. I could see if your a veneer buyer, you need to track wood flow: what, where, how much and when so wood is accounted for when it arrives at the mill.
Interesting you should mention Home Depot tracking every board. A number of years ago, I was approached by someone with the Payless Cashways chain of lumberyards. They wondered about us providing hardwood lumber. Problem was, every stick had to have a bar code. I explained to them that hardwood lumber does not lend itself well to barcodes. You can do it; you see the displays in Home Depot, Lowes, and the like. You also see the price tags. I tried to talk them into training a few people that could measure hardwood lumber and sell it the proper way. But that wasn't the corporate way. The cashier making minimum at the front of the store had to scan a barcode.
I remembered that when they filed bankruptcy and folded. Tracking inventory is a wonderful thing. Becoming a slave to it is not.
Columbia buyers that came here the last few years for veneer began an inventory tracking system with a handheld and a bar code tag stamped onto the log. That allowed them to pay the seller on the spot. They would just go into the marketing board office with the scale by owner and made out the cheque. Their trucker would either be on site when being scaled or shortly after to get the logs. It was good service, but we only had small volumes and it never paid for the marketing board to gather up puckles of wood. They had a small bucking fee, but you or I could not make money at it, nor did they. They could recover costs because of volumes sold to other markets. $M's annually. They don't seem to buy veneer hardwood these days locally, but I know they are not broke.
Quote from: Ron Wenrich on January 05, 2012, 05:48:32 AM
Doyle scale = (diameter - 4)^2 * length/16. Maybe if you use the formula you wouldn't need a table.
Thanks Ron now I have something else to do :D I guess I will play with an excel spreadsheet after I get done sawing or get frozen enough to come back inside which ever happens first.
Thanks to Ron the excel spreadsheet was simple. If anyone wants it just PM me I can email it. I will try to upload also.
Well I can't get the excel sheet to upload so someone smarter than me will have to do it. But I can email it to someone smarter. :D
What dus ya know I got it.
I think you fellas are right. Us smaller sawmill operations just want to saw,but it is nice to know if you are making overrun or just keeping even. I hand scale each log as it comes in and paint its scaled bdft on the end of the log with cheap black spray paint. I started doing this when scaling because I would loose track from one end of the stack or pile to the other. I scale them and paint the feet on the little end and then go back and write them down. Like this.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20540/2953/SANY0030.JPG)
That way I can tell by how much it makes if I am ahead or not.
I can see how this might get to be too much to do but It would cut down on a little of the tracking problem.PC
Even if you don't do it all the time, it would be worth doing occasionally, for a day or a truckload, and track it though your processing system. Just so that you know your scaling and log costing are actually lining up with the production you are expecting. Margins are too slim to just rely on guesswork.
Ian
Everyone talks about overrun, but it isn't the most important factor. Profit is the factor. If you get more overrun, but your production costs are higher, than the overrun doesn't mean as much. Its only a factor in high quality logs where the lumber value can absorb the higher costs.
Quote from: Ianab on January 06, 2012, 12:39:39 AM
Margins are too slim to just rely on guesswork.
Ian
That is a fact.
PC
I will be testing out the new excel worksheet this weekend, I have 3-4 loads coming home. Here is a copy of the one I use all the time, for all custom sawing jobs and the lumber sales I do.
I am now doing this full time so I need to be able to track everthing. I like to see how much overrun I can get but, some of it is to much work for the $$ I need a edger but don't want to spend the $$. Hum rock and hard place ::)