iDRY Vacuum Kilns

Sponsors:

Woodmizer alternator issues

Started by woodrat, March 03, 2014, 06:55:51 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

woodrat

I have an old 96 Woodmizer that uses the Delco CS alternator. Every time this machine sits around for a while, or the tarp blows off and it gets rained on a little bit, the alternator dies. Out of the past seven jobs I've done, I've put three rebuilt alternators on it. The last time was in November, and now it's dead again, because the tarp blew off in a storm one night and it got rained on.

I don't understand why this thing is so fragile, but I am just sick of buying a new alternator every other time I need to use the mill. I assume that there is a way to rebuild this, rather than buying another one, but my NAPA store sounded shocked that I would want to do that, and only begrudgingly looked up the parts. He said that the diode set was $120, and I should just buy another $120 alternator instead.

Has anyone rebuilt these? Has anyone had this kind of problem on their mill? Where can I get the parts? It makes no sense that the diodes would be $120 and the rebuilt alternator would also be $120.

Help?
1996 Woodmizer LT40HD
Yanmar 3220D and MF 253
Wallenstein FX 65 logging winch
Husky 61, 272XP, 372XP, 346XP, 353
Stihl 036, 046 with Lewis Winch
78 Chevy C30 dump truck, 80 Ford F350 4x4
35 ton firewood splitter
Eastonmade 22-28 splitter and conveyor
and ...lots of other junk...

POSTON WIDEHEAD

I no nothing about rebuilding alternators.......but I think I wood order an engine cover to keep my engine and alternator dry.  :)
The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

woodrat

lol! fair enough, but here in western WA, I do sometimes do milling in the rain, too, and that's hard to do with a cover on it...   ;)

The long range plan is to empty out my barn, and remove some old horse stalls so I can park the mill inside from now on, but in the meantime, I'm having a hard time with the idea that a rebuilt alternator that I put on in November needs to be replaced again already. There has to be a way to fix what ails it short of buying a new one.
1996 Woodmizer LT40HD
Yanmar 3220D and MF 253
Wallenstein FX 65 logging winch
Husky 61, 272XP, 372XP, 346XP, 353
Stihl 036, 046 with Lewis Winch
78 Chevy C30 dump truck, 80 Ford F350 4x4
35 ton firewood splitter
Eastonmade 22-28 splitter and conveyor
and ...lots of other junk...

StimW

They should not be failing just from moisture.
I would buy one of the lifetime warranty ones!
New HF Band Mill
Branson 35 hp 4 WD Diesel Tractor W/Attachments- Backhoe, FEL W/ Bucket or Forks, 4' Tiller
4000# Clark Forklift W/24" Tires
Promark 6" Brush chipper W/18 hp Kohler

POSTON WIDEHEAD

Quote from: StimW on March 03, 2014, 07:37:09 PM
They should not be failing just from moisture.
I would buy one of the lifetime warranty ones!

Good point StimW......REAL GOOD POINT!  :)
The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

Magicman

Sawing while it is raining is much different than it sitting idle during the rain.  The proper cover will be a bargain.

That being said, I do not understand your failure rate.   ???
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Ohio_Bill

I don't have a good track record with rebuilt alternators on anything. Maybe you would be money ahead to get a new one. 
Bill
USAF Veteran  C141 Loadmaster
LT 40 HDD42-RA   , Allis Chalmers I 500 Forklift , Allis Chalmers 840 Loader , International 4300 , Zetor 6245 Tractor – Loader ,Bob Cat 763 , Riehl Steel Edger

julio

where are you getting your alt from. And do you ever have a low battery as in like something is pulling a draw on it.
If you put your finger in your ear and scratch, it sounds like PacMan.

pineywoods

There's more than just a diode pack involved. there's an ELECTRONIC voltage regulator also. Electronics generally don't like water, especially if they have power applied. $120 rebuilt or $120 parts, not exactly the same. With the rebuild, he also gets your old unit, which he can likely fix for $50 or so..
Here's a possible... On most of those single wire alternators, the wire that goes from the alternator to the nearest terminal block is actually a fuse. It looks exactly like piece of wire, but it's not, it's called a fusible link. Check your parts book..If some time in the past that link blew, it probably got replaced with a piece of #12 wire. If that has happened, any short circuit anywhere on the mill will likely take out the alternator.
1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  028, 029, Ms390
100k bd ft club.Charter member of The Grumpy old Men

dgdrls

https://www.google.com/#q=delco+cs+alternator
  find this one Delco (Delphi) CS family alternators www.chalnet.net/Fiero/Delco.doc
There are two CS series alternators according to the above
I don't think its the rain alone causing you grief, I think you have another issue.
Have you performed any testing with the machine running?

Are you jump starting the mill after it sits?

Check amperage draw right when you start, check again 5 or so minutes later
it should be much less as the alternator has recharged the battery.
If not you have an open circuit taking amps or the batt is sucking the load
and killing the alternator.

someplace to start

Best
DGDrls






woodrat

Good advice, guys. I will do some more looking through this and see if there is something else going on. Yes, it always seems to have a dead battery, since it often sits for months between uses. I buy batteries frequently, too...  :-\  I've always assumed that it was just a cost of having the machine sitting and not being used, but this time, I just did a big job last November, and then did a little milling for myself right after I got home from that job. Recently I had another job come up, so the night before, went and fired up the machine to make sure it would start the night before, and it did, but the next morning when I tried to run the hydraulics to get it ready for the road, and it killed the battery. I jumped the battery, got it running, put the voltmeter on it, and it was clearly not charging.

Sometimes, if I'm just milling for myself and not in a hurry to get moving, I'll pull the battery, take it down to the shop and put it on the charger for a day. If I'm in a hurry, I'll jump it with the truck or the tractor and get moving.

Does Woodmizer warranty the alternator you get from them? I've usually been getting these from NAPA, and I can never find the receipt from the last one so I have never tried to warranty one.
1996 Woodmizer LT40HD
Yanmar 3220D and MF 253
Wallenstein FX 65 logging winch
Husky 61, 272XP, 372XP, 346XP, 353
Stihl 036, 046 with Lewis Winch
78 Chevy C30 dump truck, 80 Ford F350 4x4
35 ton firewood splitter
Eastonmade 22-28 splitter and conveyor
and ...lots of other junk...

Ohio_Bill

On my 2001 LT40 it would stop charging and it was from losing ground from where the alternator mounted to the frame.  I would clean it up and would work for awhile.  After cleaning it up and treating with aluminum wire treatment   nolox. Did not have any more trouble.
Bill
USAF Veteran  C141 Loadmaster
LT 40 HDD42-RA   , Allis Chalmers I 500 Forklift , Allis Chalmers 840 Loader , International 4300 , Zetor 6245 Tractor – Loader ,Bob Cat 763 , Riehl Steel Edger

MartyParsons

Hello,
The plug on the alternator may be the issue also. WM Part # 015969. Might be a good idea to get the alternator tested. ( maybe done that already) ?
The green wire on the alternator should have 12V power when the switch is turned to # 2 . I have seen the plug wobble and not make connection. The ground is important also.
Wood Mizer parts are warrantied for 30 days.

The original alternator was a 61 amp there is a kit to change to 105 do you have this already? You will need to do some modification when you go to the larger alternator. You will need a metal grinder to make the area a little larger.
I am assuming you have a standard hyd mill. 

Hope this helps.
Marty
"A pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees opportunity in every difficulty." -Winston Churchill

Chuck White

I take my alternator to the local Auto Electric shop about every two or maybe three years and the tech will go through it end to end and I've never paid over $35.00- $40.00!

Also, I have been on the road with my mill (no covers on) and had it start raining and turn into a downpour and have Never had trouble after the mill getting soaked.

I'd suggest checking for the fuseable link that PineyWoods referred to!
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

ladylake


If your running the 61 amp one most likely working the snot out of it and over heating.  steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

Magic Smoke

If I'm not mistaken I believe a 96 mill still had an incandescent light for the alternator. Have you bypassed this light? If so, you should either replace the lamp (recommended) or move the small wire on the alternator to the "I" terminal (sometimes marked as "F").
The lamp has a certain amount of resistance to it and running direct without it to the "L" terminal (factory location) can be detrimental to the alternator.

Jim H

I had an alternator fail on a '97 hyd. I took it to an alternator shop, they rebuilt it, and I reinstalled it and continued with the job. Later that day battery died again, checked the alternator, not working. So I go back to the alternator shop and tell him what happened. He told me that the newer model alternators are more sensitive and not designed to bring a completely discharged battery back to full charge on their own. He was very understanding and fixed it again either cheap or at no charge. I charged the battery overnight this time and had no more issues. All this to say your alternator problems may be caused by a very low battery. I would check for a parasitic draw on the battery when the switch is off. Disconnecting the battery when it is going to sit for a long period of time might be a good idea also. Hope this helps.   Jim
2008 LT40HDG28, autoclutch, debarker, stihl 026, 046, ms460 bow, 066, JD 2350 4wd w/245 loader, sawing since '94 fulltime since '98

Delawhere Jack

A motorcycle cover works well to cover the saw head on LT40 mills. Look for the large size, made for "dressers". About $50 new and worth every penny. There are a lot of other parts besides the alternator that need protection from the rain.

Red Good

I think of the amount of water thrown up by the wheels on my chevy truck in a deluge and how much water must be under the hood and where the alternator is and really  think they don't do to bad in the wet . 297,000 and still the factory alternator . 2 nd battery . My Massey has a 1 wire chevy alternator on it , replacing either a genny or a massey alternator and have not had a problem . I would start looking for a draw when everything is shut off . Red
Stihl 211C saw
Massey 135 deisel tractor with a front loader
Can Am 800 max quad
2001 Chev S10 pick me up
Home made log arch

backwoods sawyer

The altinator on my mill is a 200 amp chevy truck style I have had it in the shop on several occations over the years, seems like they were all related to a ground issue of one type or another, other then when the fan wore out on it, I alway have the starter shop rebuild with the heaviest duty parts avalible, I also keep the new battery in the mill and use the spares for other equipment.
But that don't mean don't cover the mill as weather is hard on everything, I use the heavy duty cover that woodmizer sells as it fits.
Backwoods Custom Milling Inc.
100% portable. . Oregons largest portable sawmill service, serving all of Oregon, from our Backwoods to yours..sawing since 1991

Jim_Rogers

I've had my alternator rebuilt several times. I keep one on the shelf ready to go so that if it dies during a job I have one ready and can keep going.

You should have them rebuilt, find another rebuilder shop.

There most likely is something else going on.

You could buy a solar battery keeper and keep it clipped on to your battery so that it stays up while you're not using it.
They can be at times purchased for about $15. I have three.

Good luck.

Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

barbender

I've not had very good luck with NAPA reman parts. I only buy new, not rebuilt, from them.
Too many irons in the fire

woodrat

Getting home from out of town tonight, and will work on the mill tomorrow and see if I can find a short somewhere. I am running the 105A alternator. Keeping a spare on hand sounds like an excellent idea. I should see if I can find one in a wrecking yard with the right clocking and rebuild it as a spare.

I don't think there has been an alternator light working on this mill since I bought it used over ten years ago. I have the light that shows that the key is on, but the other one never has worked. I did have to replace the alternator plug a few years back, and I think I left the wire to the light un connected and taped up, since the light didn't work. I'll sort through that again, too, and see what I can find.

I used to do this nearly full time, but in the past few years don't work it that often anymore, and it always seems like I need a battery, maybe an alternator, and probably another $100 thrown at it every time I have to take it on the road. Which makes me want to do that even less, of course...  :-\
1996 Woodmizer LT40HD
Yanmar 3220D and MF 253
Wallenstein FX 65 logging winch
Husky 61, 272XP, 372XP, 346XP, 353
Stihl 036, 046 with Lewis Winch
78 Chevy C30 dump truck, 80 Ford F350 4x4
35 ton firewood splitter
Eastonmade 22-28 splitter and conveyor
and ...lots of other junk...

soilmover

I agree with barbender, we have quite a few pieces of equipment & trucks and have no luck with NAPA rebuilt parts. As I understand it they call them remanufactured and use used parts. This seems to hold true for any of their electrical parts.  As it is we don't buy anything but new or have ours rebuilt ( a good shop can make them better than new).

woodrat

Anyone ever rebuild their own alternator? Looks like I can get a parts kit off of ebay for about $40. We used to rebuild alternators and starters and carburetors and even distributors back in high school auto shop, but now it seems like no one ever does anything but swap out whole assemblies anymore, even if there's only something minor wrong with them.
1996 Woodmizer LT40HD
Yanmar 3220D and MF 253
Wallenstein FX 65 logging winch
Husky 61, 272XP, 372XP, 346XP, 353
Stihl 036, 046 with Lewis Winch
78 Chevy C30 dump truck, 80 Ford F350 4x4
35 ton firewood splitter
Eastonmade 22-28 splitter and conveyor
and ...lots of other junk...

Thank You Sponsors!