Drying red oak cants

frazman · January 21, 2020, 09:22:25 PM

I'm going to cut 2 read oak cants and was wondering how they will react as for drying. These cants will be approx. 4" x 6" x 21' long depending on what size of trees I find for the job.
The oak will be used for setting my HM 126 as the base. Would I have to air dry the oak first for a few month ( + or - ) before using or will they move and twist while drying?
Just curious as what will happen because of the size of wood. Thanks for any info.

YellowHammer · January 21, 2020, 11:33:11 PM

Normally they would crack when drying, but if you are using them as a base for a sawmill, with ground contact, they won't dry much.

The biggest factor would be getting clean logs with no knots so the cants won't kink at the knot when drying.

GeneWengert-WoodDoc · January 22, 2020, 03:31:55 AM

Because of the risk of decay, white oak would be a better choice.

It is very difficult to dry red or white oak that is thicker than 8/4 without getting cracking.

As wood does shrink as it dries, it is a real concern that the frame you make will shift over time and become uneven or twisted. The shrinkage can create a lot of stress on bolts and other fasteners.

It might be better to consider sawing 8/4, drying it, plane it flat and then bolt the pieces into a larger timber. Drying time in air drying is likely one summer.

frazman · January 22, 2020, 04:52:13 AM

I could see the stress on the hardware could be a problem with the drying wood as mentioned.

Should have mentioned the red oak will not be sitting on the ground. They will sitting on some vertical posts that will be set in the ground. Using 8/4 is also a good option.

I would just like a wooden flat surface to mount the levelling feet from my mill and the reason for red oak is I have lots of trees to pick from in my area.

Don P · January 22, 2020, 05:24:01 AM

I think I'd be looking at something more like 8x8 for that use.

frazman · January 22, 2020, 06:18:38 AM

Finding 8 x 8 at 21' in red oak could be challenging in my area. If this size would be a better choice I may have to find white poplar ( trembling aspen ) instead or if I'm lucky some pine.

GeneWengert-WoodDoc · January 22, 2020, 06:59:01 AM

Aspen is likely too weak and soft.

btulloh · January 22, 2020, 07:59:46 AM

I had to do a temporary setup with the HM126 and used it to saw some 6x6's for the mill base. Of course it would be better to do it once and be done with it, just a matter of how to get to the finish line. I used 6x6 SYP on treated 6x6 cross ties, kind of like a railroad track. Posts in the ground are better than cross ties, but the cross ties on a gravel base are working well for me. Lot's of ways to skin that cat. In any case, mounting the mill tracks on the 6x6's (or 8x8's ) works well.

My initial setup used solid 8x8 cinder blocks placed to catch the feet. It wasn't a good long term solution, but it worked long enough to make the stuff for the next version. I could have bought what I needed, but I was determined to saw it instead of buying it.

scsmith42 · January 22, 2020, 11:00:10 AM

One option would be to mill them as 4/4, dry them, s2s and glue up. No movement this way and fastest drying time.

Brad_bb · January 23, 2020, 01:09:34 AM

I cut a lot of beams. 4x6 if cut free of heart is going to move significantly at 21' long as it dries. It will bow, may twist too. Even if cut boxed heart, more than not it will move too, though not bow quite as bad, but checking and twisting. I still have the 4x6x16' and 20" FOH White Oak rafters that we culled form my shop build in 2016. Some are bowed 6". One was bowed a foot and a half(burned that one for firewood). All of the rafter had bow, the ones we used we were able to pull most of the bow out with ratchet straps and blocking til we got the sheathing on. It would have been easier if they were still green when installed, but a delay in the raising 6 months and they dried quite a bit.

As has been said, it needs to be heavier to reduce the movement. Or laminated as scsmith42 says.

Red oak isn't rot resistant. If that's not an issue, then you could use Ash. I see less movement from the Ash I've cut. I'd still cut it oversize, let it move and dry, then I'd use my beam planer to joint it square again. But most people don't have access to one like mine(Woodmizer MP100 that runs on the sawmill track).

frazman · January 23, 2020, 12:46:50 PM

My original plan is out the window. As much as I can use firewood it's not my plan. I think I'm going to laminate some red oak board instead as mentioned. Using the cinder block as btulloh is a good way to start for my first setup but will end up with my original plan kind of sort of. As mentioned from btulloh, why pay for something that I can cut. Time and patients will work for me. I have lots to learn but it's a start....... Thanks for all the feed back.

123maxbars · January 29, 2020, 08:52:37 AM

Use white oak if possible, red on any type of ground contact I have found to not last long. Also make sure its true WO and not Chestnut Oak,

farmfromkansas · January 29, 2020, 11:14:17 AM

I have a neighbor who uses quite a bit of used oil well pipe to build fence corners and such. Last year I got him to build a frame for a calf shed out of pipe. Worked well. Have you considered using pipe for your base? If you need it stronger than one pipe, you could set another on top parallel to the other and weld together to increase strength, and if you weld cross pieces in, it will resist twist to the frame. It is best to set the pipe frame on concrete blocks to increase life. What he does is use his press to smash the ends of the pipe, so butt joints weld well.

frazman · January 31, 2020, 06:32:24 AM

I have a limited amount of types of trees in my area and white oak is not available.

As for the pipe idea, I forgot I do have some long lengths of 6" round tube x 14 ga. I could use this tubing for setting in the ground and fill them with cement and then weld or fasten plates on top to mount the wood. I'll have to check that out this spring when the snow is gone.

Thanks for all the help.

GeneWengert-WoodDoc · January 31, 2020, 07:23:16 AM

This idea is a superior way to go.

Al_Smith · January 31, 2020, 04:40:07 PM

Quote from: farmfromkansas on January 29, 2020, 11:14:17 AM
I have a neighbor who uses quite a bit of used oil well pipe to build fence corners and such. Last year I got him to build a frame for a calf shed out of pipe. Worked well. /end quote

Since it's been mentioned I've built a complete machine shed from used heavy wall electrical conduit welded with pipe trusses ..As well the complete 30 by 60 foot shed roof on the back of my 70 by 60 foot main shop is held up by 2.5 " conduit on ten foot centers holding up 24" steel bar joists . Not only will it not rot it's also stronger then a post and beam construction and certainly was a lot less labor intensive .Plus it's fire proof .
Of course if you don't know how to weld and weld well that could be a problem .Then again I don't own a sawmill so post and beam would be a challenge for me .

fishfighter · February 19, 2020, 07:17:24 AM

This was my first set up for my 126.

Worked real good till I built a trailer and shed for my mill.

Al_Smith · February 19, 2020, 11:10:49 AM

Have you ever thought of using either a school bus or long truck frame as a base? I've got a 24 feet truck frame that's 8" thick on the home built I seem to take forever building .
In my way of thinking it would be a simple thing to just set the frame up on ties about 4 feet apart,shim it up and use it .It certainly would not rot and with no paint at all it should last about 40 years before the rust gets it .--just an idea ---