can you start a Nyle L200 in a cold environment?

jimbarry · February 03, 2020, 01:51:13 PM

I haven't used the L200 in winter time. I seen on a Nyle youtube video not to start the kiln unless the air temp is 80ºF. I don't have an alternate heat source other than the electric heater unit in the Nyle.

Only alternative might be to run a open face propane heater 32,000BTU in the space to bring up to temp, but I'm kinda leery about an open face unit, with one of the fans running to circulate air, blowing small bits of sawdust etc around. Just concerned about fire.

jimbarry · February 03, 2020, 01:59:54 PM

Is there a way to run the heat and fan in the unit but not the compressor?

K-Guy · February 03, 2020, 02:07:08 PM

Hi Jim
The control will not let the compressor start until the dry bulb reaches 80°F and the wet bulb actual is 2°F above WB setpoint. So just turn it on and put in your settings.

jimbarry · February 03, 2020, 03:26:37 PM

Quote from: K-Guy on February 03, 2020, 02:07:08 PM
Hi Jim
The control will not let the compressor start until the dry bulb reaches 80°F and the wet bulb actual is 2°F above WB setpoint. So just turn it on and put in your settings.

Thanks, I'll give that a go. First though I will have to defrost the water tank for the wet bulb wick. Its frozen solid.

K-Guy · February 03, 2020, 03:36:43 PM

Nope. It will defrost as the kiln warms up.

jimbarry · February 03, 2020, 04:04:52 PM

K-Guy, do you have any other advice on how to set up this drying run for firewood?

K-Guy · February 03, 2020, 04:06:37 PM

Set your DB at 120° and wet at 75° and let it go till you don't get water.

YellowHammer · February 03, 2020, 10:42:18 PM

There's no need to even have a wet bulb or water in the wet bulb tank.

Set the WB and DB as Stan suggests, and since the wick is dry, the WB will read 120, same as the DB. The compressor will run full time trying to get the WB to 75 F which it won't be able to do.

I like the foam in your kiln. Did you do it?

jimbarry · February 04, 2020, 05:28:35 AM

Here's a blog post we did on the spray foam installation.
Spray Foam Insulation in the Kiln Building ? WoodchuckCanuck.com

Thanks for the advice and info.

jimbarry · February 04, 2020, 08:11:54 AM

All prepped and ready.

Start up display.

jimbarry · February 04, 2020, 08:24:18 AM

An hour later.

YellowHammer · February 04, 2020, 08:58:11 AM

It will take a while to heat up a full load of wood. How many tons of wood is in there? Probably 24 hours. The unit is calling for heat, so that is correct. You might as well turn on the auto vent also, so it won't overheat accidentally during the cycle.

Those are 4KW heat strips, about what is in a house HVAC system. Your electricity bill just went up. :D

jimbarry · February 04, 2020, 09:16:43 AM

2 cord, so about 8,000 lbs.

I'll be monitoring the elec consumption. The first hour it consumed 17 kW, that's $2.69.

Video of startup.
20200204 firewood kiln first run - YouTube

jimbarry · February 04, 2020, 09:30:29 AM

2nd hour. Elec consumed 7 kw $1.11,

jimbarry · February 04, 2020, 10:36:58 AM

3rd hour. Elec consumed 7 kw $1.11. Same as previous hour.

jimbarry · February 04, 2020, 04:19:28 PM

Controller display at 7.5 hrs. Total elec used so far $9.65.

Why are the probe readings increasing over time?

YellowHammer · February 04, 2020, 09:15:58 PM

The probes only go in so deep, and the heat is causing the core moisture to migrate to the surface, so the increased moisture will be picked up by the probes.

Did you use the long probes?

What level are you going to target? Thats some pretty wet wood, it's going to take awhile to get it down pretty low.

GeneWengert-WoodDoc · February 04, 2020, 11:36:28 PM

Any probe readings above 30% MC are not accurate...that is, the resistance of wood is not well related to MC above 30% MC. Oftentimes you will see readings like 40% MC for days with the true moisture starting at 60% MC and dropping to 35% MC, and you will see lots of water coming from the DH unit, so you know the wood is drying, but the probes do not indicate it. (The same is true for pin moisture meter readings.). Then one day, you will see the pin readings drop quickly as the wood dries under 30% MC.

The probes typically measure the wettest spot along their length, so with shallow probes (1/4 of the lumber's thickness is typical depth), you will see increases because the kiln conditions are more humid than the outside, causing the surface MC to increase. The best pins are insulated along their length except for the tips.

As wood warms, there is a correction that is made for temperature. That is, pins in wood that is drying slowly will show an increase as the wood warms.

jimbarry · February 05, 2020, 05:53:01 AM

I am using the probes that came with the Nyle L200M. Probes are 3/4" long i think, I never measured them. I drilled holes in four pieces of split firewood 30 mm apart as per instructions. Pins are inserted all the way.

MC goal is 20% or less.

22 hours running now at wake up this morning. Compressors shows to be on. No drainage as of yet. Super warm and humid inside.

Controller reading a 26.4ºF increase inside the kiln since the last reading 9hr ago (10:20 last night).

jimbarry · February 05, 2020, 07:42:40 AM

24 hours have passed now. No draining yet.

YellowHammer · February 05, 2020, 07:52:22 AM

I'm pretty sure the heat strips and compressor won't operate at the same time.

So flip the heat button from "Auto" to "Off" to turn the strips off, and then the compressor should turn on after a time delay (6 minutes I think) now that you are over 80F. Since the power vents (dry bulb setting) are set to 120F the heat from the compressor will gradually cause the temps in the chamber to walk up over a period of days, where the vents will make sure it doesn't overtemp.

This technique starts the water removal process immediately, as soon as the unit reaches 80F. You can of course just wait for the kiln to climb to 120F on the strips alone.

jimbarry · February 05, 2020, 08:55:05 AM

Quote from: YellowHammer on February 05, 2020, 07:52:22 AM
I'm pretty sure the heat strips and compressor won't operate at the same time.

So flip the heat button from "Auto" to "Off" to turn the strips off, and then the compressor should turn on after a time delay (6 minutes I think) now that you are over 80F. Since the power vents (dry bulb setting) are set to 120F the heat from the compressor will gradually cause the temps in the chamber to walk up over a period of days, where the vents will make sure it doesn't overtemp.

This technique starts the water removal process immediately, as soon as the unit reaches 80F. You can of course just wait for the kiln to climb to 120F on the strips alone.

Greatly appreciate all the help. I didn't understand that the heat had to be off/disengaged first. I was just in there as the DB read as 98.8ºF. Its plenty humid. I'll do as you suggested and turn off the vent.

K-Guy · February 05, 2020, 09:30:58 AM

Correction.

This could be a momentous occasion..... Yellowhammer is wrong!! :D

On the L53 only one can run at a time due to the power restriction placed by using a 15 amp circuit.

The L200 doesn't have that problem and both the hat and compressor can be on at the same time.

If you aren't getting water out:
1) do you have the trap in the drain line? If not you will pull outside air in through the drain slowing down heatup and stopping wate from draining.
2) Is the wood giving up moisture to drain. hat firewood will not give water like lumber does.

K-Guy · February 05, 2020, 09:32:41 AM

Also, the L53 automatically shuts the heater off when the compressor starts. So manually turning the heat off is unnecessary.

jimbarry · February 05, 2020, 11:51:11 AM

Ah, I am missing the trap (loop in hose filled with water) as well. I'll get that squared away shortly.

Hour 28 - controller DB reading 101.6ºF, a 6.1ºF increase inside the kiln since the last reading 4hr. WB reading 103.2

Its to the point the moisture is coming out of the building and freezing. Its 21ºF outdoors with a breeze. Other than that indication, the bldg is tight.