European logging anyone?

[Skeans1]

30K gets you a decent six wheeled forwarder, toss the crib, shorten the frame and mount a winch and/or a clamp.
Just sayn..... there is another idea.  I might even do that hahah.

That's a excellent idea! Really 30K? how many hours?

Build me one ;D

How many hours?  Man, they'll barely be broken in by Costa Rican standards.  Barely broken in...

:D :D :D
Now slow down!! I maybe live in CR but i'm still from Switzerland (the land of perfection! :D)

Kidding aside, i would never buy any complicated machine over 6-8k hours, period! It's just not worth the time and money.

My 1971 Deere 540A has 380h on the hourmeter that i installed 2 years ago  ;D ;D

They aren't too complicated like a 1010 TJ is mechanical 4 cylinder Perkins it's the mid to late 90's stuff you have to worry about, our 1210B looks like the wiring was just torn in the machine. Hours wise a few guys we know get 30 to 40k on them with one engine rebuild on the Perkins.

[Satamax]

Satamax,I just play on my own land,40 hp tractor. So don't have the time in big machines. But that tractor I feel would be kinda light on whatever end the logs are not on.Yes,level,smooth ground,as in the first part of the video is fine. Get one wheel over a foot high rock or a stump and I would get kinda nervous,especially in second gear.

Guys, have you ever seen this stuff?

Yes, three point hitch grapples are available here in North America. Wallenstein makes different models not far from my place but I don't think they will really catch on because you have to be able to drive up to the log. With all the underbrush we are dealing with here I don't see this is possible.

Thanks a lot guys.

I never saw any on here. That's why i asked.

I might buy a small truck hydraulic crane. To make such a grapple one day. May be.

[Riwaka]

Jura Horses
Using horses to work in the forest - YouTube

[lopet]

Woody is a go getter.
Or you call that " boys are playing in the woods."
Woody - YouTube

[bushmechanic]

I don't understand why you would want anything other than a forwarder. A skidder can only skid out timber to a landing and in doing so picks up rocks and fiber damage to the tree. A forwarder keeps everything up off the ground no rocks or fiber damage and keeps your landing easily sorted and tidy. Here you will be hard pressed to find a working skidder as they all faded out about 30 years ago, we went to cut to length. I have went everywhere on forwarders where I used to go on a skidder, I can't see the difference but as I have learned on here logging is different in other parts of the world. 

[teakwood]

That's why i want a skidder with a crane.

A forwarder would be to big for me as i have to drive thru the teak rows and be able to turn in them
then i need a winch which most forwarders don't have
we haul longwood, how do you haul 10-18m logs on a forwarder?

something like that would be the ideal machine for my situation

Colectarea lemnului in Romania cu skidder-ul Noe NF170-4R - YouTube

[bushmechanic]

That's what I was saying about logging in other situations and locations. We don't sell any timber 60 feet long, we're lucky if the tree grows to 60 feet tall here :D So you sell your trees that long Teakwood? If you don't why then could you not cut to length when you cut during your final harvest? Just trying to figure out how things are done in your neck of the woods. I'm guessing that you only harvest the right size trees and leave the rest in the plantation thus the need for a winch. You can do plantation harvests with a forwarder with a squirt boom if your rows are placed right.

[teakwood]

1. i just do thinnings in the plantation, no clear cuts
2. the best trees stay so they get even better 
3. 60% of my land you can't work with a machine because of the slopes, that's why i need a winch (i cuss every day over the stupid 3305 deere winch because i run 50m/160' of cable which is still short in occasions and that cable gets hung up on the sides of the spool if the cable layers are not winched in absolutely straight, european winches have 80-120m of cable capacity)
4. The logs which i sell as longwood (the straighter, nicer, thicker ones) go from 5-11.8m (max. container length) 16-38', the rest goes as shortwood 2.3m (max. container width)

[Skeans1]

That's why i want a skidder with a crane.

A forwarder would be to big for me as i have to drive thru the teak rows and be able to turn in them
then i need a winch which most forwarders don't have
we haul longwood, how do you haul 10-18m logs on a forwarder?

something like that would be the ideal machine for my situation

Colectarea lemnului in Romania cu skidder-ul Noe NF170-4R - YouTube

A clambunk is how you do long wood or you have an extension on the back for long wood.

[Skeans1]

What percentage are the slopes? You might be surprised what a forwarder can and can't do with a set of tracks on them.

[teakwood]

yes, a crane skidder with a clambunk is what i need, with remote winch 


My slopes are from slight to almost vertical. they are short (60m/200' at most) but some are pretty steep



there are even steeper ones. maybe a tracked forwarder could work 80% of my land but i have just 47ha/116acres so i can't justify a 100k+ machine or even two machines and a skidder with a winch will always be a must no matter what

[Satamax]

For cleaner wood, why not using a smaller skidder with winch and a high fairlead, and a huge log arch. May be slower than the clambunk and crane. But way cheaper. 

[Skeans1]

If that's most of the slopes then that's do able, we do steeper ground then that worse case we've had to hook up another machine to pull ours up out of a hole.

[teakwood]

i don't drag the wood on the floor, the deere's fairlead roller is pretty high and i appreciate that fact. the problem is i can just drag 10-14 trees per hitch and my skid distance is far, up to 1.8km
then the other problem is on the landing: sorting of smaller diam logs and bigger ones would be so much easier with a crane than by hand. also the container loading would be much faster

that's my loading tool  



here you can see the shortwood in the front, selected, dragged out and piled by hand

[Resonator]

Could you put a thumb on the Volvo?

[Riwaka]

How steep are the tracks that you haul the teak along once they have been winched up or down the slope?
two bogie units pulled by the skidder? Run air brakes off the skidder
European log truck no pole between truck and bogie  - just the hoses & electrics on a bungy.
Volvo FMX 6x6 in forest - YouTube

Volvo excavator - log  grapple but run off the stick ram hydraulic connections. If you need power rotate - two section electric solenoid on stick to switch grapple functions. Only wires back to cab, no full length of the boom piping etc.

Would you lose too much value if you chopped everything 2.7 metres and put every thing on a small trailer and aimed for quality/ cleanliness?

[teakwood]

Could you put a thumb on the Volvo?

Yes i could
The cheapest solution would be to put a log grapple on my excavator, i have the hammer piping already on and could bypass the bucket cylinder for the second circuit, two circuits: open/close, rotate grapple left/ right
but that's a 30ton machine so the grapple would be enormous  also, and where to find that?

[teakwood]

How steep are the tracks that you haul the teak along once they have been winched up or down the slope?
two bogie units pulled by the skidder? Run air brakes off the skidder
European log truck no pole between truck and bogie  - just the hoses & electrics on a bungy.
Volvo FMX 6x6 in forest - YouTube

Volvo excavator - log  grapple but run off the stick ram hydraulic connections. If you need power rotate - two section electric solenoid on stick to switch grapple functions. Only wires back to cab, no full length of the boom piping etc.

Would you lose too much value if you chopped everything 2.7 metres and put every thing on a small trailer and aimed for quality/ cleanliness?

The skid roads aren't too steep but not accessible for a semi truck and i would not have the space to open a  big enough leveled landing inside the plantations
the price of the short wood is about 40% less than the long wood so everything that classified for longwood has to be sold as.
The cleanliness/quality of the log is no problem, although i drag them behind the skidder just part of the bark gets peeled of.

[Skeans1]

Could you put a thumb on the Volvo?

Yes i could
The cheapest solution would be to put a log grapple on my excavator, i have the hammer piping already on and could bypass the bucket cylinder for the second circuit, two circuits: open/close, rotate grapple left/ right
but that's a 30ton machine so the grapple would be enormous  also, and where to find that?

They aren't that big pretty common here in the NW 48" open with a close of down to 4" would probably work for you I would also add a heel rack. Another option would be a power clam lots of guys run them in BC with long or short wood. Cws, Jewell, Pierce Pacific, TMar, IMac, Rotobec, Prentice, and I'm sure I'm missing some.

[Riwaka]

There is a Volvo EC380DL forestry model now which weighs 112 420 lbs,( 51 metric tonnes without mud )with processor attachment. 30 tonne is a lightweight.
A grapple for a 16 tonne or 20 tonne excavator would work with the teak without the requirement for a 30 tonne grapple.

If looking for a used grapple search the local old heavy equipment yards - many snakes/ spiders in those?
Matra, Tecun etc
Panama Tractor | Heavy Construction Equipment Sales, Rentals, Service & Parts ? Panama  - used  (would have cleared lots of trees for the canal expansion project)

New grapple - Panama(country) agent for intermercato- italian?
IntermercatoGrapples & Grabs Archives - Intermercato    (find a dealer)

Forsttechnik ? LASCO Heutechnik Gmbh   (wooden tongs - Kegelspalter - austrian made from hardox on sale)

To have quick change overs you might need to find/ make something like this - mechanical quick hitch with grapple attachment point.
Wedgelock Products | Forestry Coupler

Do you intend to thin more teak blocks than your own?

[teakwood]

Thanks alot for that info Riwaka, i will look into it when i have more time

Do you intend to thin more teak blocks than your own?

That could be a possibility, although i'm afraid that my 1971 540A deere skidder wouldn't be up to the task of everyday professional logging. it's a very good machine for the 1-2 month i use it in my woods but year around??

[mike_belben]

I dont see anything wrong with doing it the way you are and saving the money for girls.  

[Satamax]

Then, get your dough out! 

I don't find this particularly expensive, for the machine it is. 

Débusqueur Werner 2040 à vendre, 120000 EUR, 2011 - Agriaffaires

[prezes232]

Hi I had lkt 80 for few years until I got loan of 240a with Cummins 5.9
Lkt 80 are only 80 or 100 hp with turbo , heavy on fuel , not great for hills , hydraulic winch so more hydraulic oil in system ,so hard to get brakes working only good thing is cheap to fix and maintain.
Two years ago I got loan of 240a with Cummins 5.9 170hp and I have fallen in love . Great machine out climb most of the skidders , low and high transfer box , very strong frame , great power and fuel economy , very stable on hills ...
My other friends has Franklin 170 good skidder also but to heavy and to big because in Europe they don't cut out forest completely . Hsm are good but very expensive to fix ....
After that last year I got my own 1993  240a with deutz f6l912 and germatic winch deutz will be swapped soon for Cummins 5.9
Regards matt

[teakwood]

I dont see anything wrong with doing it the way you are and saving the money for girls.  

i don't spend too much on girls, heck the can go work for their own money