This is a first.

[B.C.C. Lapp]

I need a couple new saws, its past time to replace a few.    I was going to grab another 362 Stihl and a 462.  The shop I've been using had neither in stock.   They are going to call me when they come in.   But I've been waiting THREE WEEKs now and they still arn't available. 

That interesting thing is the shop is trying to talk me out of those saws altogether and into a couple Echo saws.   That is a first for me.   Never saw a parts and service guy saying he wouldn't buy stihl and would go with Echo.   He tells me he is selling more Echo's to the loggers and tree service guys than stihl and he also says he can always get echos in.  He states Stihl wont even tell him when the saws will show up.  

You know what, I'm not against trying something new at all.  But there is one thing holding me up and that's that I have so many Stihl parts and parts saws to get parts off of.   Anvbody that uses saws every day know how important that is.   Having parts on hand is a big deal.   If I go with Echo saws I start all over. 

[hedgerow]

I have been around a fair amount of Echo's and my top handle is a Echo and I like it but there are things like the chain adjuster that is just cheaply made. If I used it every day I would have a Stihl. I have a friend that his whole saw line up is Echo and he bought Echo because of the cost of Stihl. I find it funny that when we cut wood together he is always wanting to run my 461 and the 261 also. Not for sure what is going on with your saw shop but I bought another 261 in Dec last year and the JD dealers in my area were full of saws on the shelf. If it was me I would stay with Stihl. 

[realzed]

Sounds to me like you might require a new or better Stihl dealer..
 
Maybe he has pi**ed off Stihl somehow and they aren't giving him the time of day for some reason but I'm sure those saws would be available elsewhere..

I would personally consider a 400 before a 362 - not no doubt there would some extra cost, granted - but from what I've read, if the extra money isn't too much of a problem the 400 would be the real deal to get..

[barbender]

I've always ran Husky and Jonsered (RIP) saws, the last few years I've gotten a couple of Stihls. I'm starting to realize, I still prefer the Huskies. Nothing stark, they both do the job. I just like the feel of them better. A guy likes what he likes. My go to saw is a Husky 562xp, I also bought a Stihl 500i because someone was selling it cheap. I kind of wish I would've just got another 562, the 500i is just way bigger than I need. 

 I realize it isn't apples to apples to compare saws of different size classes, but overall they feel differently in the hands. Husky saws feel more nimble to me, like the mass is more centralized maybe. 

 I'm not promoting one over the other, what I'm trying to say is, "stick with what you like".

[lxskllr]

Sounds to me like he's trying to get rid of saws he can get. It might be fun for you to buy one echo just to see what they're about. I love my echo saws but I'm not a pro beating them up every day. I am a dedicated amateur, and use my saws more than the average bear. I wouldn't feel bad about starting a tree company with almost 100% echo gear. I need at least one saw from the big two, cause echo doesn't go as big. Anyway, if money isn't a stress, get an echo to tide you over til your Stihls come in. You can sell it, use it as a firewood saw, or maybe you'll love it, and start running some echo.

[ladylake]

 
 I like my Echo saws, run great, good power realiable, easy to get parts online that are priced good, easy to work on and good prices plus they have grunt not finicky  high end only power.   More and more are switching to Echo .Steve

[ihookem]

I have had Stihl for 35 yrs. Then I bought an ECHO 620P and a 501P. I like both saws . The 620 is a bear for the size, and the 501P is suck a nice saw that I all but stopped using the Stihl 026.  However, I wish I would have just bought a Stihl 261. Here is why. I already have a Stihl 441 . Nice saw , fast but finicky. The ECHO 501 is very close to the Stihl 261. The ECHO is a 25 yr. old carb saw... They are real nice, but the 261 is more advanced . I can switch bars with my 034 and 441 . The Stihl bars last a lllooooong time. I hear the ECHO bars are not so good China made..  Both brands feel different,, can't say I like one over the other , but I can't just switch bars neither.  Say I go through a few extra bars on the ECHO's. DId I save any money in the long run? The ECHO's use more gas.. 

[ehp]

Instead of the 362 get the 400, its the same saw just bigger bore and more power , 462 is better yet and unless you need real power its all the saw you need , 500i is more power but also burns a fair bit more fuel and lot more cost , 400 is a very good mid saw for most people 

[lurk]

Thing I've found with ECHO products is they like a few tanks of fuel through them before they come alive.

[21incher]

Definitely they perk up after a couple tanks of fuel. Then I take the saws back to my dealer and he does a final check of the tune. I wouldn't go back to Stihl after how easy all my echos start. The wackers sip fuel compared to my old Stihl wackers. Plus a great dealer nearby.
We lost 2 local Stihl dealers recently.  Was told by one that Stihl started pushing  homeowners stuff on them and that's  not what his customers wanted plus dealing with inexperienced customers wasted a lot of time. There isn't  enough profit in the low end stuff to cover that especially them selling in big box stores like Runnings right down the road.

[khntr85]

What size of bar will you be using and what kind of wood will you be cutting

[Spike60]

I smell a rat here. Think about this a minute. I've seen/heard this and similar scenarios play out dozens of times over the years. This likely has nothing to do with stihl vs echo. Sounds to me that he dealer is in hot water with Stihl. Deep enough apparently that he's trying to push the Echo product because that's all he can get. Key question is do other stihl dealers in the market also have trouble getting saws? Product shortages are not confined to individual dealers. And they are typically model specific vs "cant get anything". And the assertion that a large segment of his customer base all of a sudden prefers echo over stihl sounds kind of Disneyland to me. 

Steve's comment that "more and more are switching to Echo" needs some context. Echo makes good stuff. Certainly good enough that they will gain some market share at the expense of the "Big 2". Yes, they have the product to do that. But also keep in mind that after Husky and Stihl, there's nobody left. They no longer have to compete with any other second tier brands like Jonsered, Efco, or Dolmar/Makita, which was all the rage on these forums not that long ago. Please don't misread my comments. Second tier, refers to market share, not product quality. I do hope they get a solid foothold, because 2 isn't enough. And since my Jonsered bias remains, they look better in Shindaiwa red.

It's one thing for a dealer to experience a tight checkbook for one reason or another. But fabricating an alternate reality to your customers like this dealer seems to be doing isn't going to solve the problem. Probably only a matter of time until he can't get Echos either.

[B.C.C. Lapp]

I smell a rat here. Think about this a minute. I've seen/heard this and similar scenarios play out dozens of times over the years. This likely has nothing to do with stihl vs echo. Sounds to me that he dealer is in hot water with Stihl. Deep enough apparently that he's trying to push the Echo product because that's all he can get. Key question is do other stihl dealers in the market also have trouble getting saws? Product shortages are not confined to individual dealers. And they are typically model specific vs "cant get anything". And the assertion that a large segment of his customer base all of a sudden prefers echo over stihl sounds kind of Disneyland to me.
 

It's one thing for a dealer to experience a tight checkbook for one reason or another. But fabricating an alternate reality to your customers like this dealer seems to be doing isn't going to solve the problem. Probably only a matter of time until he can't get Echos either.

Nope. No rat here spike.   The dealer I'm talking about is one of the largest and most successful tractor and power tool supplies in the area.  They are a huge business and have been around over 40 years.     And its the same at every stihl dealership around.  They just are not getting stihl pro saws in.   Nobody seems to know why and stihl ain't saying.   I've had orders for these saws in at three dealerships for over a month now.   Not a single saw in yet. 
No this isn't about dealerships, this is a problem with Stihl.   

[B.C.C. Lapp]

Instead of the 362 get the 400, its the same saw just bigger bore and more power , 462 is better yet and unless you need real power its all the saw you need , 500i is more power but also burns a fair bit more fuel and lot more cost , 400 is a very good mid saw for most people

I have two of the 400's ehp.   Liked them st first. But they seemed like they got tired quick.   They spend most of their time holding the shelf down.   When someone needs to borrow a saw, I hand them one of those 400's.

[Spike60]

I smell a rat here. Think about this a minute. I've seen/heard this and similar scenarios play out dozens of times over the years. This likely has nothing to do with stihl vs echo. Sounds to me that he dealer is in hot water with Stihl. Deep enough apparently that he's trying to push the Echo product because that's all he can get. Key question is do other stihl dealers in the market also have trouble getting saws? Product shortages are not confined to individual dealers. And they are typically model specific vs "cant get anything". And the assertion that a large segment of his customer base all of a sudden prefers echo over stihl sounds kind of Disneyland to me.
 

It's one thing for a dealer to experience a tight checkbook for one reason or another. But fabricating an alternate reality to your customers like this dealer seems to be doing isn't going to solve the problem. Probably only a matter of time until he can't get Echos either.

Nope. No rat here spike.  The dealer I'm talking about is one of the largest and most successful tractor and power tool supplies in the area.  They are a huge business and have been around over 40 years.    And its the same at every stihl dealership around.  They just are not getting stihl pro saws in.  Nobody seems to know why and stihl ain't saying.  I've had orders for these saws in at three dealerships for over a month now.  Not a single saw in yet. 
No this isn't about dealerships, this is a problem with Stihl.   

Where are you located? Problem like that ought to be fairly widespread. Husky is doing some kind of 20% off on pro saws right now. Ought to stir up the whole market with that move. 

[Log-it-up]

My two pennies worth 
I just switched from husky to echo x series I bought a cs- 7310 and 620p it's there 73 and 62 cc saw ran them all winter they kinda feel like running and older 272/372 husky very simple still fully carbureted small toggle switch for on/off 
A few reason I switched was I was sick of tighten chains it seemed like every pine or few hardwood trees I cut the scrench was coming out, and in the cold of winter when you plunge cutting hard wood I was often messing up the chain tighteners it's self, witch brought me too ordering parts through sub par dealers that are in my area which could take a week or two to get, stuff happens I know I'm ruff on saws but I was really only getting a year out of them before something major happened so cost played out in the decision to switch, I ran the 7310 most of the winter with only one self induced issue, my only real big gripp with echo is the top end power they kinda fall on there face could be I never brought them back to get retuned or just the fact of running the auto tune husky from before kept rpms and power more balanced when cutting bigger wood 
( I had a 562 and 572 husky from previous)

[RetiredTech]

 I don't make a living with chainsaws, but my two newest saws are both Echos. The most recent is the 620. My opinion is, I would not hesitate to buy Echo again. No bells and whistles, just good solid saws. They run good, idle good, and are easy to start. You can't ask much more, it's only a tool. I don't get hung up on name brands. I just do the research and buy what looks like it will work for me. If I buy a saw or any tool and decide I don't like it, I'd sell it and buy something else. It's not like you're married to it. Good luck and Happy Sawing.

[Tacotodd]

I know that I sure do like the CS501P that I've got. It's strange though: it's almost exactly $100 more than the 4910, but all relevant parts are even the same pt#. Curious. The only thing different that I've actually found was the handle bar. 4910 is plastic while the 501 is aluminum. It's been money well spent in my opinion. 😉

[lurk]

I know that I sure do like the CS501P that I've got. It's strange though: it's almost exactly $100 more than the 4910, but all relevant parts are even the same pt#. Curious. The only thing different that I've actually found was the handle bar. 4910 is plastic while the 501 is aluminum. It's been money well spent in my opinion. 😉

[ladylake]

 
 Stihl cheeping up their lower end saws is catching up to them,  more and more are turning to Echo.  Steve

[beenthere]

ladylake
No point in you continually dissing Stihl. Not what the FF is about.

[ladylake]

 The fact is that Stihl has cheapen up their lower end saws a lot since 20 years ago and it's catching up with them.  I really have no time for companys using their once good name to sell cheap junk.  Steve

[Magicman]

Steve, I am curious as to which saws you are referring to as being "cheapened up low end saws". 

I wanted a small light sawmill saw so I bought an MS170 which was the cheapest saw that Stihl was offering.  Saw, chain, files, & 6 pack of oil out the door for less than $200.  This saw has never faltered but it was too small (hp) and it is now serving the farm as it's "small" saw after I bought an MS261 to serve as my small sawmill saw.  I bought the MS261 simply because I could.

Six years ago, I was using an MS310 as my large sawmill saw but it did not have a compression release and my arthritic hands could no longer pull the cord in cold weather.  This of course was the cheapest 59cc saw that Stihl offered.  I replaced it with an MS362 because it was a bit lighter than an MS311 and again, because I could.

The 170 and 310 are now serving the farm as road clearing and firewood saws.  Neither have ever showed any quality issues.

[ladylake]

  You answered your own question, you had lower level saws which are heavy and under powered  to keep cost down for their size, the 170 light but really under powered . Now you have good pro saws.  Steve

[lxskllr]

I'm not sure it's fair accusing a $200 saw of being cheap. I picked a 170 up that was NOS for all intents and purposes, and it's a pretty good saw for what it is. Much better than a poulan for only $50 more, and though it complains a bit about pulling a 16" bar, it does alright. The biggest flaw imo is not putting a side tension adjuster on it. There's no excuse for a front tension adjuster in 2024. I think the echo 2511 is a better saw in that general class, but it's also > twice the cost. That's like saying a Lexus is better than a Corolla. Yea, everything can be better when you throw money at it, but the Corolla will still get your groceries, and the 170 will still cut wood.

[NewYankeeSawmill]

Sounds to me like you might require a new or better Stihl dealer..
 
Maybe he has pi**ed off Stihl somehow and they aren't giving him the time of day for some reason but I'm sure those saws would be available elsewhere..

I have become rather rabid about supporting the local individual small business people in my community, but I think @realzed is correct.

In all things we have our own opinions as well as seeking counsel from trusted sources. My local small-engine shop is no different. If I can source an item from his shop, I gladly pay 3x what I can get it for online, and he knows it, too!
If he doesn't have it, DaNile will get it on my doorstep in 2 days. And he knows it, too!

I think you've been more than fair with your vendor waiting 3 weeks for them to source inventory. I would give them one more chance to source the product before pulling your order, but I would let them know you've got too much invested and are going to stick with Stihl. Its a simple, polite explanation they certainly deserve, as there may be forces beyond their control at work.

... I've seen things like this in other industries I've worked in. Whether real, imagined, or manufactured, sometimes consumers are forced to move between brands of product (and all the associated tools, spares, etc.) due to sourcing problems. So for 3-5 years it's all Echo, then suddenly Echo has sourcing problems, but look at these Shindawa's I just got in! Happened to me in the print manufacturing and transportation business, I doubt forestry is any different. Personally I think it's a game they play to suck more money out of us, but that'll get this thread bounced into the tinfoil-hat forum.   

... And as loathe as I am to admit it, it appears to be a feature of the 'new normal' that will be with us.

[Magicman]

You answered your own question,

No Steve, I answered what I did and why.  One lacked the cc for my use and the other lacked a compression release that I needed.  There was no lower quality with either.

My sawmill business bought "pro" saws simply because it could afford to do so.  Pro saws use higher $$ magnesium to lighten them but that does not mean that using other materials is cheapening.

i have not seen an example from you describing what you deem as cheapening. ??

[21incher]

It's like the old Ford  vs Chevy vs Dodge argument  we all used to have before Toyota and Honda came along  . I am very  glad I switched from Stihl equipment to Echo because of how much easier to use and start the Echo equipment has been. Along with a great dealer 10 miles away.  Biggest thing that pushed my switch was trouble  with coils when Stihl started  making them in China at $100 bucks a shot. I am finding  it doesn't  pay to stay loyal to brands anymore,  go with  what works  best for you and has good support and never look back.

[ladylake]

You answered your own question,

No Steve, I answered what I did and why.  One lacked the cc for my use and the other lacked a compression release that I needed.  There was no lower quality with either.

My sawmill business bought "pro" saws simply because it could afford to do so.  Pro saws use higher $$ magnesium to lighten them but that does not mean that using other materials is cheapening.

i have not seen an example from you describing what you deem as cheapening. ??

 If you work on these saw you can see the lack of quality and poor design, yes they run but have low power and heavy weight except the  170  which is light and gutless.  Way too many companys have lowered their standards to make money a Stihl is one of them.  Steve 

[ladylake]

 I dont think there is anyone who doesn't think that Stihls quality hasn't gone down on their homeowner saw from what used to be unless their really color  blind.  Steve

[Al_Smith]

Being a collector /restorer I don't value one brand above another because I've just about owned them all over the years .Nearly all brands have high quality saws and likewise have a few not so robust .It's about like comparing apples to oranges to compare a low priced saw to a pro model but people are inclined to do so .
Some years back Husqvarna decided to make a power play saying it's either us or them ( the Germans )Those who did not comply they pulled their dealership .However they did not buy back the parts supply and hung the dealers with parts they had a hard time selling .As a result 40 years later other than TSC and Lowes you will not find a Husky dealer in these part .Fact the nearest stocking dealer to me is about 40 miles away and he never has parts in stock .So for parts I use a dealer in North Carolina .Three days after I order them I get them .

[Magicman]

Have a good day Steve. 

[Spike60]

Should this thread be moved to the axe grinding section? Oughta be razor sharp by now. 

[customsawyer]

I've owned a few Echo saws. Nothing in particular wrong with them, just that the balance never felt right. Sold them both and never looked back.

[B.C.C. Lapp]

Customsawyer what are you running now? 
For the record one of the saws I'm waiting on showed up today.  I picked it up on the way home.   Came with a "lite" bar that cant be re tipped.     Geese I miss the old days when things made sense, companies wanted our business and worked for it, stood by their products and kept their word.   

[lxskllr]

The dealer should put any bar you want on the saw, and adjust the price as necessary. My two pro Stihls I bought new, I specified everything, including what chain I wanted. 

Technical nitpick... I wouldn't call the laminated bar a "lite" bar. It is lighter due to it's nature, but they have an actual pro light bar with a replaceable tip. I'd encourage you to take the saws back before you use them, and get the bar you want. Aside from being a laminated bar, it's also a "safety" bar with a smaller nose. It won't bore as well as the pro bars, though they will bore.

[customsawyer]

I run mostly Stihls but still have one 385 Husky that I keep a 36" bar on. I think I might have one of the Echos still in the my blade shop. I keep a 261 and a 500I close to the mill. I don't use saws near as much as you guys are. Most of my logs come in cut to length. I might go through 2.5 gallons of gas every month or two.

[Wlmedley]

At this point in life my main requirement with any gas powered equipment is ease of starting. I bought a small Husqvarna saw for limping and light cutting and didn't keep it long although I love my 372. Next I tried a echo 341 and it's hard to start after it gets hot. Bought a Tanaka (which I had never heard of)  and it starts easy every time and runs good.I use Shindiawa trimmers and they seem to last forever and start and run good. I have a Stihl trimmer and it has good power but sometimes is hard to start especially when hot. I hate to be worn out from pulling a starter cord before I get started working. I don't care what brand it is I want it to start easily.

[SwampDonkey]

I run Husqvarna 555 for firewood saw. Never liked their low end models. For thinning brush and small trees I prefer Stihl 560 or 561 (now), built tougher for thinning hardwoods. If I was cutting light plantation a Husq 555FX does what it needs to do. But in more involved thinning I'll take out shafts, clutch drums, handle bars and throttle cables on the Husq 555FX. With that model, if you take out the shaft, you absolutely have to replace the drum, the star shaped receiver end for the shaft will usually be stripped enough that you might get a week and it will break a shaft end again.  And yes, Stihl has been difficult to get parts. I have spares, but a new harness was all summer arriving last year. Some stuff can still take 2 or 3 weeks. With what's going on over there in Europe now, it all affects production and commerce. Those Stihl brush saws come from Germany.

[B.C.C. Lapp]

The dealer should put any bar you want on the saw, and adjust the price as necessary. My two pro Stihls I bought new, I specified everything, including what chain I wanted.

lxskiir that's how it used to be alright.   I've been running stihl pro saws since I started logging in 1995. When i was growing up grandad ran stihls.   Ive bought and owned more saws than I care to think about. Dozens and dozens of em.  Some I just wore out, some got killed by tree monsters, one fell out of the back of my pickup when I forgot to put the tailgate up. Never saw that saw again.   One ended up under a skidder tire, one had a log truck back over it.   One,,well you get the point. I've owned a few saws.   And your right. EVERYONE of them up till now I specified bar and chain and the dealer sold it to  me.   Ain't that way now.   The dealers are telling me stihl tells them what gets sold with what now. 
At least that's what I'm being told.   Things at stihl are just not the way they were.  In truth how many things today ARE as good as what they once were?

[lxskllr]

Sounds like I might need to make a road trip and ask my dealer how things are going. I don't really need much, but I could use another box of 5/32" files, and it's always fun to look around the shop.

[Spike60]

With Husky, each saw model has several SKU's that can be ordered. Each SKU represents different, yet "approved" bar and chain combos. Not just length, but .050, .058, and sometimes .063. Saws cannot be ordered PHO. Naturally a dealer will order the popular combos for his customers. But I NEVER told a guy he couldn't have something different. Usually, I'd ask "how ya want if set up?" Most times, I already knew. Hardly a big deal to pull a bar off the saw and hang it on the bar wall, right? 

Could sometimes include a switch between .325 and 3/8. 3/8 on a 346 or 550 wasn't unusual as some guys can't file .325, and some spun their own chains, so 1 reel in their shop was enough. One guy liked 555's over the 562, cause the small mount bar allowed a .325 8 pin set up that was very smooth and quick. Any of you "chip size" guys won't get it, but that was one hot set up. And not a new idea. He was doing that on the 262 and 357 before the 5xx saws came out. 

But telling customers they can only buy a saw with one bar and chain combo is like telling them everyone has to buy the same size work boot, no matter how much it hurts.