DC Electrician Needed

dsgsr · September 08, 2020, 04:08:46 PM

I have a 2k lb. winch that raises and lowers the head on my sawmill. Having problems with the relay's. Only one works, I have bought numerous relay's to try and none work. I have one relay that works (in either slot)??? It's a Badland winch.

Thank you for any help,

David

moosehunter · September 08, 2020, 05:08:53 PM

Many relays have a schematic printed on the housing. Compare the one that works with the ones that are not working. They may be wired different.
mh

Al_Smith · September 08, 2020, 05:19:15 PM

Most if not all relays made in the last 50 years have a brand name and a part number .That's the simple way to do it .Google will find it .

mtmeatpole · September 08, 2020, 05:33:12 PM

Is it that the relay is not working or the winch won't work in one direction or the other? I feel like there is some needed info missing to help you out.

Al_Smith · September 08, 2020, 06:19:41 PM

It's nearly impossible to trouble shoot anything over the internet .

esteadle · September 08, 2020, 06:30:32 PM

Badland winches are disposable.

If this one isn't working, dispose of it and get a new one.

They are half the price of a proper winch for a reason, and it ain't because they're reliable.

tylerltr450 · September 09, 2020, 02:32:38 PM

Relays are the simplest form of switching.

What you need to look at is voltage and amp load in order to size the relay correctly. Also you need to know which kind of schematic NO, NC. Attach images so someone can help.

donbj · September 10, 2020, 12:03:15 AM

Quote from: esteadle on September 08, 2020, 06:30:32 PM
Badland winches are disposable.

If this one isn't working, dispose of it and get a new one.

They are half the price of a proper winch for a reason, and it ain't because they're reliable.

Just like those knock off chain saws!

Iwawoodwork · September 10, 2020, 01:02:38 AM

I have had a HF 12000# winch on my Goose neck 12 ton trailer that has been great.
I have loaded 2 4x4 dump trucks , 2 loaders, a case w9, a Hough HM 4x4 all non running plus skidded a 16' refer box up on the trailer using 30' - 50' of line each time and still working good.

Walnut Beast · September 10, 2020, 01:57:41 AM

A hauler a few years back came and picked up a truck I sold. He asked where the HF store was to return one of there winches. It was his 3rd one in a short amount of time. He wasn't happy

charles mann · September 10, 2020, 02:09:26 AM

Quote from: Iwawoodwork on September 10, 2020, 01:02:38 AM
I have had a HF 12000# winch on my Goose neck 12 ton trailer that has been great.
I have loaded 2 4x4 dump trucks , 2 loaders, a case w9, a Hough HM 4x4 all non running plus skidded a 16' refer box up on the trailer using 30' - 50' of line each time and still working good.

same here. but due to my error, i burned the brake out, but for $350, i was extremely happy with my 12k. it did much better than my warn 16k.

dsgsr · September 12, 2020, 04:36:51 PM

Thank you all for the replies. The original relays do not have any outside markings whatsoever. About 5-yrs. ago one of the original relays went and the local CarQuest guy found one on Amazon. It worked fine until this yr. It's a GAMA, it shows the pole arrangement. I bought the same item at GAMA through Amazon, same pole configuration it still doesn't work.

If I take the relay that works (it's and original) and put it in one of two spots to make the winch turn, it works fine in both directions.

Why aren't the new relays working. I have tried different brands (JD, Picker and GAMA).

Quote from: Al_Smith on September 08, 2020, 06:19:41 PM
It's nearly impossible to trouble shoot anything over the internet .

You are absolutely right. but I'm hoping.

Thank you All again
David

mtmeatpole · September 12, 2020, 05:32:15 PM

If you have the power and ground for the switch on the relay(the small wires and some relays ground through the body) the only other thing needed is to connect the heavy wires and if it don't work it has to be the relay. If you can put the original relay in that position and it works I would be looking at the ground for the switch side most likely. Maybe the old one grounded through the body and the new one would require a ground wire. If its not that the relay is bad.

DennisK · September 12, 2020, 08:37:31 PM

Is this a 5 pole or 4 pole relay?

dsgsr · September 13, 2020, 09:25:49 AM

Quote from: DennisK on September 12, 2020, 08:37:31 PM
Is this a 5 pole or 4 pole relay?

5 pole.

mike_belben · September 13, 2020, 01:29:36 PM

Small 2 pole winches just need a polarity change to reverse direction so what you need is a "reversing contactor."

Pull the controller off and use jumper cables direct from battery to winch terminals. If it works right in each direction the winch motor is good. Toss the controller, buy a reversing contactor and a momentary 3 position on/off/on toggle switch. You put 12vdc power to the center leg and control the contactor with that. Google for a wiring schematic very simple.

Buy DB electrical pn LRW6000 for $20.

dsgsr · September 13, 2020, 03:59:00 PM

Quote from: mike_belben on September 13, 2020, 01:29:36 PM
Small 2 pole winches just need a polarity change to reverse direction so what you need is a "reversing contactor."

Pull the controller off and use jumper cables direct from battery to winch terminals. If it works right in each direction the winch motor is good. Toss the controller, buy a reversing contactor and a momentary 3 position on/off/on toggle switch. You put 12vdc power to the center leg and control the contactor with that. Google for a wiring schematic very simple.

Buy DB electrical pn LRW6000 for $20.

Thank you Mike. What I don't understand, The one original relay (that works) will make the winch work in either port, forward and back. It's acting like the new relay's are no good. But how could I have 6 bad relay's from 3 diff. companies all within 3-months from each other.
Thanks again,
David

trimguy · September 13, 2020, 04:06:16 PM

They were all made in the same factory, just different brand names. I ran into that with auto alternators about 3 years ago.

btulloh · September 13, 2020, 04:40:17 PM

That doesn't mean they are the correct relays though.

Use an ohm meter and find the coil pins for the original that works.

Then use a 12v source to actuate the relay and use the meter to figure out the contacts. Do that actuated and non-actuated. Make a diagram as you go.

Then use the same method to check out the new relays. You'll probably find they're different.

Using the diagram you made of the working relay you can buy the correct replacement.

LaneC · September 16, 2020, 11:12:00 PM

From what I gather, 1 relay will work correctly in each direction. I would disconnect the power source, take the relay base off and look at the connections on the relay base. I understand that it works when the relay is inserted into the base but check it. Sometimes (especially with DC,) you get what we call an DGEM. (dad gum electrical miracle :D). Just check the base and I hope that will fix it.

Al_Smith · September 17, 2020, 07:05:58 AM

When you deal with 12 volts it doesn't take much corrosion ,bad terminal connection etc. to really throw a monkey wrench in the gears .
Add to that those little plug in relays are made all over the world so you have to add in the Pacific rim type of quality factor which is less than stellar often .
I'll just stop right there because as I've said trouble shooting over the internet is a roll of the dice .

mike_belben · September 17, 2020, 02:05:45 PM

All the relays and solenoids are doing is making a reversing contactor. Its old technology. The newer better cheaper tech makes it obsolete in the low current application that you need. Buy the $20 contactor and throw the old controller out.

Ps- always make sure your 2 terminal style winch motor is working in both directions with jumper cables off a battery first. Motors brushes do wear out.

dsgsr · September 26, 2020, 12:57:00 PM

Thank you all for the replies. I got the controller from DB Elec. got it all set up and smoked the switch. Don't know what went wrong. Anyway, A friend broke the motor off his atv winch. He ordered the motor and all the rigging came with it, he didn't need. Gave it to me and 10-mins. the winch works and back in business.

Thanks again,
David