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New Shed in the Works

Started by WV Sawmiller, February 14, 2020, 06:54:52 PM

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Don P

So you saw the word treated and stopped reading? Leave out the word treated and pay attention to the concepts. That is how to build various capacity floors using those methods. Flatways on sleepers, then heavier boards on edge or timbers nailed together as the load on the floor increases.

WV Sawmiller

Don.

  I dug a little deeper but I confess I did not go very deep before I got way lost in terms and descriptions and building codes and such that were way more technical than I was interested in. Here is the article I was reading.

Permanent Wood Foundations - InterNACHI®

  If you have "Wood floor for dummies" article that is more on point I'd love to see it. I did encounter the term "Sleepers" which sounds like a better term for the LE Locust 8/4 strips I was suggesting above.

  BTW - I have to be very careful about learning too many new things because my mental hard drive is full and for me to learn something new I have to dump some memory and the memory dump may be something like my wife's birthday or such that is going to get me in deep trouble.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

Don P

This is a little fancier than I was thinking but would spread the load out better than the floor directly on flatways sleepers, it'll stay flat longer having those 2x4 joists across sleepers.



 

WV Sawmiller

Don,

   Thanks for the illustrations. The one on he left side is most interesting to me. I can see where the extra height would help keep things drier with the extra ventilation under the actual floor. Instead of 2X4s I may use 2X2 strips to help keep the height down and reduce overall lumber needs.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

WV Sawmiller

 

 
I went over today and got another ton of gravel and got it unloaded and spread. It is pretty level but I may run a long board across it like finishing concrete to make it more perfect. I bought a roll of landscaping plastic for a moisture barrier but did not read the details and it is for weed control not moisture control so I'll take it back.

We'd evidently had some snow and ice last night and the higher I got the worse the road looked. I got up there okay but decided to take the interstate back even though it is 10 miles further. My son's next door neighbor's fence had been hit by somebody last night and broke off 5-6 posts and in one place 40-50 feet of guardrail had been hit but it looked like it saved them from running off the mountainside. Going down Sandstone Mountain on I-64  we saw 3-4 big rigs pulled over on the side of the interstate where they were not able to make it up the mountain. There was even one big wrecker pulled over. That stretch of road used to be and may still be famous as the 3rd largest killer of truckers in the USA.

We got home with no issues. My last 2 pieces of metal should be in tomorrow and I'll get them on and start sawing some locust sleepers and poplar 2X4s for framing.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

Don P

Apparently we had ice on Whitetop but it was clear here.

Years ago I was in the slow lane heading up Sandstone Mt with the motorhome fully laden, all I could do was ride low gear. Halfway up my CB crackled, "Are you going up or backing down? :D" it was the truck behind me roaring up my rear with his flashers going. He blew by me in a 40 mph flash as I'm asking him to throw out a rope. 1433' in 4.6 miles.

Fancy Gap on 52 from here down into the piedmont of NC is another famously fatal stretch that is now closed to trucks with I-77 doing about the same route now.

Tom King

I've never seen anyone level gravel with a screed board.

When I need to level gravel under a slab, I pull a mason's line across the area with a couple of line blocks that can be moved along the form boards, brick rowlock, or boards tacked in place.

Buy the Great Neck/Goldblatt G06991 2pc Wood Line Blocks | Hardware World

I judge the distance a hard toothed rake needs to stay below the line to get the thickness of the slab close enough, but you could pull the line the height of your rake.

I'm not good at drawing, like Don is, but if that's not clear enough I'll try to explain better.

WV Sawmiller

 Tom,

   I am not pouring a slab just  building a rough floor. I did think about placing a 1X4 like a form board along the sides but this does not need to be that precise for my needs. I can drag a board across the top to knock off the high points but its already pretty close.

Don,

   My son lives about 1/2 mile from that mandatory truck pull off at the top of Sandstone Mountain there on I-64. The big issues I have on I-77 at Fancy Gap is the fog and sometimes it is pretty windy. They frequently have to close I-64 here at Sandstone during snow and ice and the National Guard sometimes has to bring the truckers MREs and water and even fuel to keep the trucks running to stay warm. Sometimes the trucks are stranded for days there.

   I never had to climb Parham Gap out west on I-80 in the snow and ice but it was a strain in good weather in a big truck just because it was such a long constant grade. 
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

doc henderson

Howard I have done sand with a screed to get a consistent slab after the pour, and even gravel, but it is more of a sight thing and often have to use a rake to move a small pile building in front of the screed.  usually a 2 x 4 with small stake boards screwed to the top edge so it drops down between he form boards 3.5 inches.  I have also stretched a string and gone off that with a landscape rake under the string.
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

Don P

You do need to retain that gravel or every step will walk it out of there.. locust timbers, boards against the posts and a few grade stakes, boulders, dead chicken, whatever will act as a gravel stop.

Back in the day when floors were dirt it  was common, neccessary, to keep bringing in straw to keep yourself warm and dry. The doorway became a problem, the straw would try to spill out. You need a threshold.

WV Sawmiller

Don,

   Are you running for president of the design committee? :D You are certainly doing a good job of following the principle of spending other members money. ;) Now I see I need to cut an additional 44 linear feet of locust as a gravel retaining wall. ::) I guess that is cheaper than constantly replacing gravel. Thanks for the tip.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

Don P

I've got to spend yours, she cut me off years ago  :D

I just looked up the etymology of threshold. it was such a good, wives tale  :D
Threshold « The Word Detective (word-detective.com)

Old Greenhorn

Actually Howard Don is saving you time, money and aggravation. I forgot your uneven ground there and he's right. Even on my flat spots where I have my sheds I put in a 12-16" wide tamped and compacted section of stone that is tapered from the full pad height down to zero. Putting in stop boards is cheaper and quicker and will probably last longer now with less maintenance.
 Threshold, I like that, never thought of it before now.
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

WV Sawmiller

Tom,

  Just because Don is right doesn't make it any faster, easier or less expensive to complete my project.  ;) I conceded in my previous post that I will now need to saw 44' of locust for backing to prevent loss of the gravel. :( My big regret in hind sight is that I did not cut and place it before buying and placing the gravel. :-[ This particular spot is actually the most level spot on the whole shed.

   Remember this started out as a 3' X 10' pad for a LE storage rack along the back wall and has now grown to  a 120 sf rhomboid shaped floor.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

Old Greenhorn

Well I hate to sound a little like the politicians I would like to punch in the mouth, but Howard, you will be much happier when you see how it comes out and have a whole lot better setup for your slabs.
 This is the the pain that is experienced when you open the gate for input, but in the end, you make the decisions and live with the result.
 We haven't got to the good part yet, the one you like the most, when the job is all done and we start suggesting add-ons that will need a lot more work, provide no improvement, but look really cool and make us feel good. :D :D :D :D
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

WV Sawmiller

Tom,

    I already see the end result being much better than the original design. I had conceded in my mind I would not be able to store any slabs over 10' long and even that was shaky now I am confident I can store my 10' pieces and possibly even store some 12' slabs. 

   What started off as one rack along a new bay and only walling in 12' more on the extension looks like the entire bay will now have a gravel bed covered by a wooden floor, walled on 2 sides with a pair of wooden doors on the front. ::)

   The upside of all this is selling one high end walnut slab or a couple of fireplace mantels and all my expenses will be recouped and my future labor will be greatly reduced. 

    If I weren't afraid it would rub off on the slabs or mantels I'd paint the whole thing purple. :D
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

Old Greenhorn

I thin brown, like I use, would be better. It will look purple to you and brown to the rest of the world.;D
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

WV Sawmiller

   Well, my metal was a no-show this week. The lady said maybe next Thursday. :( 

    I pulled up a few scrappy locust posts and the crooked cut off from one of my poles. I figured I'd make some LE 8/4 sleepers for my shed floor and maybe get some gravel dam material off the edges/outer slabs. I grabbed a couple of pieces off my scrap slab pile from where I had squared up the poles and squared one side of them. The mud was not doing my blades any good but fortunately it is all small diameter cuts.


 
Its a muddy mess out here at the crooked posts are 7-7.5 ft long and the pole remnant is about 10' long.

   I cut several pieces of gravel edging and installed them on the edge of the new shed extension. I nailed them to the uprights and drove up a stake or two when I had to splice them. I filled in a gap or two with some other locust scraps. I did not try to completely level the pieces with each other like I were pouring a concrete slab or such but they a pretty level  I raked the gravel around and was happy with the way it looked.


 
I loaded the sleeper material on the back of my cart and brought them over to put in place.


 
They won't win any beauty contests but I think they will work well for my plans. I had 3 pieces from the 10' and 8 of 7-7.5 foot pieces.


 
I started placing them and the 10' pieces just fit the location on the wide end. I remembered I meant to put down a plastic moisture barrier so Tom doesn't chastise and say bad things about me so I stopped and will resume when I get the plastic down. I guess that is a project for tomorrow morning, weather permitting.

Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

Old Greenhorn

Looking good kid! Yeah, that plastic is gonna make a big difference in how everything last. I will be away from Friday to Sunday, but may just check in to make sure you a re sticking with the plan.
 Take more photos, so we can put our stamp on it.
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

WV Sawmiller

 

 
I went to our local hardware store and got a 10X25 sheet of 4 mill plastic ($17.48 ), doubled it over the gravel so now I have 8 mils of waterproofing in place under my future floor.


 
I laid my LE 8/4 locust sleepers on top of the plastic. I had to go cut up one more locust fence post to get enough to cover the area.


 
I had a bunch of 2X2 ash strips left over from when I cut the 2X6 rafters used for the roof here so I placed them and nailed them on 16" centers to the sleepers. I still need to trim the ends and finish nailing as several are just tacked down to 4-5 sleepers. I went ahead and sawed up a 13' poplar and got 5 2X4s and one more 2X2 strip which matched perfectly for my needs here. That will give me enough framing for the back wall. I think I have plenty of 8' 2X4s to frame up the narrow end. When I finish nailing these strips down I will be ready to start nailing down flooring.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

WV Sawmiller

   Well I have the do-dahs and suspect it is covid so I went and got tested. By the time I get the results I' be over it or have died from it I guess. Sore throat, dry cough, body ache, head ache and light headed. Of course some of those symptoms may be related to the 2X4 that fell on me yesterday. ::)

   Anyway I started yesterday but finished the framing today. I used up some old 8" lag screws I have had laying around a long time.


 
The next step is to start laying the floor or put the last 3 pieces of metal on depending on when it comes in and the weather. The 2X2 strips on the sleepers are the equivalent of the floor joists.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

DonW

I like this floor and the Look of it as it develops, great photos. The concept is like the floor I'm now renewing in a log house from about a hundred fifty years old whose real downfall was mostly the result of varmits undermining the sleepers though yours is looking fairly varmit resistant.
Hjartum yxa, nothing less than breitbeil/bandhacke combo.

WV Sawmiller

Don,

   All this flooring is new to me so we will see how it works out. I don't know what kind of varmints you have up there. I guess rot and bugs are what I have to worry about.

   I assume from your description you will have to lift the cabin/log house and tear out and replace the flooring. What kind of sleepers are you using?

   Right now I have about $175 invested in this extension and that includes $36 worth of nails I bought today. I still have about 18' of metal roofing and the screws on order. That is not including the poles and lumber I cut off my property. 
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

DonW

Maybe new to you but the concept is old. A builder acquaintance told me once of a floor he'd restored in an old church with the sleepers embedded in lime that were well preserved after hundreds of years, with only minor damage at the ends. This was in The Netherlands where rot is a big problem normally. Maybe that's similar to your conditions.


My log house floor - "house" would be an exaggeration - is high and dry here in the desert, a condition I can appreciate for sure. The critters I suspect are pack, or wood rats, not to be confused with those low-land rats by any means, much more sympathetic in every way.

The floor I'm working on only extended to the inside perimeter, that or else the walls had shifted and fallen off the sleepers but I cleared out the floor prior to lifting the building.

My (very) tentative plan is to use split spruce half-rounds as sleepers, available locally, adze the undersides of the floor boards to equalize, and maintain a similar economy to yours, of course.
Hjartum yxa, nothing less than breitbeil/bandhacke combo.

Don P

The main floors of old log homes here were usually independent of the walls.

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