6-Month review of LT15(S) and moving to LT40?

[WDFL]

Got my LT15 Start last summer, added the "Go" trailer, and have been making boards.    It's enjoyable and has brought out many "friends" I didn't know I had who want wood products.  

I already have a tractor for log moving.  Wife is on me to find some rural ag land to hunt and harvest timber from.  

LT15 Start Thoughts
- Initial entry price got me started and I should recover most/all of it
- Working manually helps me to read the wood, learn sawmilling, and visualize the cut
- Adding the trailer makes it 10x more usable for me, and I can't imagine not having it
- I'm not a fan of the pull start, and the extra $1500 needed for Powerfeed.  
- When we picked up the mill from WM South, wife asked "Why didn't you just get one of those to start with?" (Pointing at LT35).  

Saw the WM Team at the Sunbelt AgExpo, and they were running a LT40 demo that was a sweet rig.   

Now, I'm considering moving to a LT40, for the following reasons:
- I'm 44, and I'd like to get a tool I can use for the next 25 years
- Hydraulics; I'm a 90% alone operation with no chance of that changing anytime soon
- Turn-key operation, with computer controls (Accuset)
- I believe a mill is, like a tractor, a decent store of value for the future
- There is a wide-head upgrade until the EOM and prices don't show any sign of going down

Which leads me to the same over analysis-paralysis I had when initially choosing a mill:
- Why a LT40 vs LT35?
- Should I get bed mounted, or walk along controls, and why?
- Is Accuset that much better than SimpleSetworks?
- I've pretty much decided on debarker, FAO, and Lubemizer.  

I will keep the LT15S until the new mill arrives, then sell it.   A year lead time gives me enough time to get everything lined up correctly.   

[WV Sawmiller]

   I'll throw in my 2 cents and wait for my change.

   I have and love my LT35. I see very little difference in it and would never upgrade to an LT40 - I'd go to the LT50 Wide if I changed.

   As I understand the bed/frame and hydraulics are the same so either one would handle the same log.

   I love my SimpleSet and use it religiously with a cheat sheet to maximize return with minimal effort. The Accuset has a lot more settings than the SimpleSet. One I'd use if I had it would be the blade up. If I got smart enough I'd hope to use the pattern function.

   The normal gas engine options are only one hp less on the LT35 than the LT40. I don't know why WM just doesn't standardize on one engine size. Buy as much hp as you can afford. I bought the 25 Kohler for cost savings and fear the diesel would not start in cold weather. That was likely a mistaken impression.

   The LT35 has 8.5" clearance IIRC while the LT40 has 10.5" of clearance. That would make it much easier to cut wider quartersawn lumber with the LT40 if you are interested in that.

   I think the distance between the band rollers is the same. I can really only normally cut a 23" wide board. I have cut up to 26" by pushing the log/can to overhand the rail to the left a little but that is not normal sawing. Even a couple inches wider would be nice so I could cut 2- 12" wide cants side by side although I would rarely do it.

   Band change on the LT35 is dirt simple using hinged covers while I think you have to remove the LT40 covers and set them aside. Not a big issue but ...

   The LT35 uses a single connection to hold the mast one - one cam follower bearing attaches the whole head to the rail. Replacing this bearing is not hard but if don't do it correctly you can dump the entire head with is dangerous and can be costly. (Don't ask me how I know this. ) IIRC the LT40 has 2 cam follower bearings running along the rail so while replacing one the other is there for back up. 

   I walk beside my mill because I need the exercise and I feel it gives me a little better feel for how much it is straining to help tell me when to change a dull blade or such. That is probably just me. Other sawyers no doubt do the same thing by listening to the engine, watching the sawdust and finish on the boards.

   The debarker is a must! I probably should use more lube but many woods I saw don't seem to need it - I might be better off on blade life and cut quality if I were using more. Absolutely buy the extra side supports as it makes sawing shorter logs.

   You won't go wrong with either choice but your usage and business plans will determine which is the better option. Don't overlook the LT50 wide till you decide you don't need the extra features. Keep us posted on what you decide and do.

[GAB]

WDFL:
If you order a mill that has a cat track you are limited to a 6' extension max., I have been told.
Not knowing the future, you may gravitate towards sawing long speciality timbers which would require a walk along mill or the acquisition of a ride along seat like MM uses when ever he can.
Just something to consider as it might affect resale value.
The calibration sticker on my crystall ball ran out and I can't find anybody reliable to recalibrate it for me.
GAB

[terrifictimbersllc]

Accuset2 knows how high above the bed the band is.  Simpleset does not. If Accuset has more settings – it does-it’s because the pattern mode replaces the cheat sheets that are referred to by users of simple set.

Accuset2 on a LT40 super/ LT50 Takes the head to the correct height position extremely quickly compared to “bumping it there” otherwise with the height control.

LT40 super has more powerful feed and up-down motors, as well as faster hydraulics. It introduces the potential for meaningful board return assistance, and can accommodate a heavier engine.

The removable doors on the 40 and 50 have a plus side in that when they are removed they are not in the way. ive found hinged doors can be unpleasant sometimes, although overall I’d say they are a plus.

I’ve had both a 40 super and a 70 super. IMO the 40 super is the sweet spot in the Woodmizer lineup, the 50 can be regarded as a several feature buy up from it.

I have been 100% portable for about 20 years.Both of my sawmills have been front remotes. I’ve only sawn on a few boards on a walk along mill. But as I stand in front of my sawmill to finish cutting a cant into 20 boards with 19 passes,  there is some advantage to not walking down and back for every one of these.  And not being bundled up in any more PPE than i already am, would i be nearer to the noise and dust.

[SawyerTed]

Which leads me to the same over analysis-paralysis I had when initially choosing a mill:
- Why a LT40 vs LT35?
- Should I get bed mounted, or walk along controls, and why?
- Is Accuset that much better than SimpleSetworks?
- I've pretty much decided on debarker, FAO, and Lubemizer.  

I will keep the LT15S until the new mill arrives, then sell it.   A year lead time gives me enough time to get everything lined up correctly.  

Why the LT 40 over 35?
The difference between the 35 Hydraulic and 40 Hydraulic is not much.
The difference between the 35 Hydraulic and the 40 Super Hydraulic is much bigger. The 40 Super offers more hp, Accuset2, board return, much faster hydraulics.  I agree 40 Super is the sweet spot of portability, features and production.  Either way, 40 of 40 Super Hydraulic, get the highest hp engine you can afford.  If I had to choose between an engine upgrade and FAOs and Lubemizer, I’d get the hp.  

Walk With or Command Control?
I’m a Command Control advocate.  After 4 years of the debarker throwing stuff at me, the wind blowing sawdust into places I never knew sawdust could go and filling my pockets with sawdust, I’m ready to have stationary controls.  Add in the board return of the 40 Super and (as Southside and Yellowhammer mentioned in the other thread) you have a one man productivity boost.  

Is Accuset2 better than Simpleset?
Better?  Depends on what you think better is.  Accuset 2 has more features and programmability but all that’s useless if not used.  When used the Accuset2 speeds up the sawing and is more accurate than Simpleset and a cheat sheet.  I’ve only used Accuset2 once but it is far more capable than Simpleset.

Buy the most mill you can.  I showed my wife the LT15 and an LT35, she said get the 35.   I should have showed her the 15 and the 50!

[SawyerTed]

Wide is not available on the 35….

[KWH]

How did you get her to move up to LT50?

[Resonator]

My thoughts...

I'm going into my 6th year of owning a LT28, which is the in between mill of the LT15 and LT35. Agree with all you said on your LT15, mine has paid for itself a few times over in business revenue since I've owned it. Having a trailer is great if nothing else just to be able to move it around my property where logs are stacked, along with going to occasional portable jobs. And yes, you learn all the basics up close running a manual mill, and the labor involved will make you appreciate hydraulics all the more.

Having said that, my intentions (and still are) to get a LT40 hydraulic. Still optimistic the business situation will improve. 
Difference between a LT35 and a LT40? Answer: hobby vs commercial. How much sawing do you want to do? Each bigger - faster - stronger mill is a move up the food chain in board footage capability and price. If you can justify the initial investment, it can pay for itself, and have a high resale value.

[SawyerTed]

I sawed successfully for four years with the LT35.  It paid for itself, sharpening equipment and all blades and maintenance.  In addition, I made a respectable profit each year.  When I sold, it went for more than new.  

When we discussed upgrading, I ran the numbers with a moderate increase in production (2/3 Woodmizer’s hourly production for the 50).  In round numbers the 35 was averaging 250 to 300 board feet per hour.   I figured I could make an average of 400 or 450 with the 50.  Woodmizer says 700 board feet per hour. 

Basically, I wrote a mini-business plan on how the 50 would pay for itself in 12-18 months along with the other operating expenses (including my wages).  The 35 did better than 12 months payback. 

One of the other things that convinced her is my son and DIL are planning on building a house.   He wants to mill his flooring, moldings and materials for cabinet faces.  We are going to start cutting logs the end of January.  

The final thing was watching Yellowhammer’s video with his wife helping at the milll.  My wife enjoys working around the mill.  Once she saw the slabs dragging back and boards dropping on the table for stacking she was convinced.

[WV Sawmiller]

Ted,

  A comment on the production numbers. I am confident the mills will consistently cut the kind of numbers you list but unless you are sawing in a stationary environment with good trained help and support equipment I think the higher numbers will be hard to achieve. Not because of the machine but because of the time it is going to take your helpers to unload, load, and general cleanup associated with the milling. I have met and bettered those numbers many times with good wood, a well laid out site and good help but normally it is less. I've sawed about 240,000 bf and am averaging about 184 bf/hr comparing production to the engine hours on the mill and there are many more hours not included in set up, breakdown, etc.

  I am lucky - I was going to buy a manual mill and my wife and neighbors talked me into buying the hydraulic mill and I probably would have quit after the first year or two if I'd bought the manual mill.

  I had never run a mill or even seen one in operation till Tyler brought mine up from WM North Carolina. Maintenance is on-going but the mills are well designed and WM provides good customer support.

[Crossroads]

The plus or minus (depending on how you look at it) to having a year to make changes. You also have a year to change your order. I put my name in the hat last January for an Lt70w and fortunately got in before the price increase. Then realized the 70 might not be the right mill for my business model. So, I changed my order to an Lt40w super. Then after talking to a few guys who have used the chain turner and envisioning a chain turner in place of my claw turner. I called and changed my order to the 50w. Enjoy the process, it’s half the fun of buying a new mill. 

[SawyerTed]

Howard,

The biggest factor in hitting a higher average is log quality.   Four or five 16-20” SED 12’ good quality logs doesn’t take long to hit 1 MBFT.  In logs like that getting 200 bdft plus an hour is very doable. 

I quit putting up with crappy logs, poor help and lack of proper log handling equipment.  Once I got customers to take responsibility for the log quality, quality help and log staging, production jumped up.  I can’t count how many times a customer has said “I’m glad you made me (fill in the blank).  It really made a big difference” at the end of the day.  I’ve made customers call for more help in a couple of occasions. 

That’s all stuff the experienced sawyers here said would be determining factors in production and profit from the very beginning. 

Now if I went back and averaged over the 4 years, I suspect my numbers would be lower.  But the last 2 years of sawing with LT 35 was easily over 200 bdft per hour.

With the board return, higher hp and faster hydraulics, I believe 400 plus an hour is doable with the LT 50.  I have plans for a portable lumber and slab handling setup similar to Yellowhammer’s.

[WV Sawmiller]

Ted,

   Very good point on the log quality. I am too easy too often and will saw a 6-7 inch diameter "log" for a customer who wants a 4X4 from it. I advise I have a different rate for such work but I very seldom apply it if it is only a log or two in a decent whack of logs and it is a nice customer. Then again, I am mostly a cost neutral hobby to keep me occupied and meet people and less than depending on it for a living.

   Same with the help - I am usually sawing for a "neighbor" although I have often never met them before. Lots of time it is someone older than me who is my customer and my helper and I end up helping him with the stacking and heavier slabs.

[SawyerTed]

I’ve learned, I’m not always doing my customers favors by sawing those skinny logs into 4x4s or 4x6s.   

[WDFL]

I'm impressed at the quality of replies, though given the wealth of experience here, I shouldn't be.

Very much looking into a LT40 Hydraulic, not a Super Hydraulic as that's a budget buster.   I picked the 40 as it has the wide head option, and I don't want to get the LT35 and then a few years down the road be in the same position as now.

Some things:
Definitely looking at the 38-HP option.  
Accuset2 (for $1k difference, why not?)
Command Control (bed mounted controls, not saw head mounted). 

What I saw at the AgExpo is exactly what I am shooting to get. 

However, I'm still working out my use cases.  

[SawyerTed]

The 40 Hydraulic WILL saw lots of fine lumber.  It will make more slabs and sawdust than you’ll want to manage. And you can make money with it if you want.  Nothing shabby about an LT40. 

Just be aware of the unwritten rule that forum members may indiscriminately spend another member’s money.     We strictly follow this rule when given a chance. 

[dbroswoods]

I’ve had a 40 Hydraulic since 2018 the 2 thing’s the sales person talked me out of  were the FAO and the 38 hp motor and I wish I had spent the extra couple thousand dollars and had these two items on my mill.

Mark 

[YellowHammer]

I started with an LT15.  

Then we sawed a lot of lumber and got our business going with an LT40.  Very reliable mill.  

[Southside]

I use the pattern mode on my Super 70 all the time.  Often I will use the drop down for two faces and pattern after I have the cant to target size.  My 35 has simple set, and yes that's nice, but pattern mode really improves production.  If Accuset II has temporary set values like my 70 does then you will find those to be invaluable.  

[Crossroads]

If there is an option that you think you want, it is about 30% cheaper to order it with the mill and have WM install it. Compared to buying it later and installing it yourself.