iDRY Vacuum Kilns

Sponsors:

Ponsse Scorpion

Started by barbender, March 04, 2023, 04:53:50 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

barbender

 I just finished a month long "tour of duty"😁 in a Scorpion. I hadn't ran one before, only Ponsse Ergo 6 wheel harvesters, but mostly I've ran forwarder. 

 I wanted to hold my thoughts until I got a little time in it, but here it is- if you were choosing between an Ergo or a Scorpion, unless you just can't handle not swinging with the crane, go with an Ergo. While the visibility out front is great, because all you see is the head, visibility everywhere else is horrible. If you're in thinning, get used to backing into stuff and finding spots to turn around so you don't have to back up using the back up camera. 

 
 Everything concerning access is horrible, imo. The fuel tank is nearly 8' high. 

 You have to set the head slewed about 22° to be able to get out of the cab and use the steps out the front of the machine. So when you're cutting, and you throw a chain for instance, you have to swing the head out to the side, so you can get out. Well right now, that puts the head out over 2' of snow. So I started mashing a trail down, so I wouldn't have to trip through the snow. A hassle. 

 When in a thinning, I kind of felt like when I'm working under a vehicle in a tight space, like when you get in a tight spot and you can't lift your arm over your body. When you need to reach out to the side for max reach to get over 3 rows, you have to pull the head back right into your face to be able to swing it into the spot you want to reach.

 When you get into taller wood and you want to see the tops, visibility is bad, there is a window up top, but you can only see the crane directly overhead. Plus, the operator is shifted about 8' forward of where you are sitting in an Ergo, which makes it harder to see the tops in the first place. 

Reach feels a bit shorter than the crane on an Ergo.

 The continuous 360° cab/crane leveling is excellent, however. 

I've heard a lot of guys that got Scorpions say that they could never go back to an Ergo. Like I said, I'm a forwarder operator that gets in a harvester here and there. So take my opinion fwiw, but I honestly really didn't care for it overall. Maybe with more time I'd come around to it but it sure wasn't anything like, "this is so awesome, I could never go back!", like I was expecting from all of the hype🤷
 


Too many irons in the fire

Firewoodjoe

Sounds like the complainants you had were do to the fact the crane is attached/close to the cab. Vs out in front on its own pedestal. Nice to here your opinion and here the experience though. After being in both. 

newoodguy78

Certainly sounds like real world assessment. It's always interesting to me how one person can't get enough of one machine and the next can't wait to get out of it. Guess that's why they have different styles. 

chevytaHOE5674

I've put a few hundred hours in both this winter. I absolutely hate the Scorpion for all the reasons you mentioned. The Ergo also has more crane swing power and in bigger hardwood the Scorpion struggles to swing wood.  Both machines are owned by the same guy and on the same job.

I can produce 30-35% more wood in the 8w Ergo everytime I get in the machine. Some of that I attribute go having north of 15k hours of Ergo seat time. Some of it is the machine is stronger and I have to do less "tinkering" to get the wood where I need it.

Some guys love their Scorpions... I'm not one of those guys. Lol

barbender

 Honestly if I wanted to swing with the crane that bad I think I'd get a track machine. 

 Another thing I absolutely hated, that may not be due to the Scorpion itself it that the previous long term operator that retired preferred to have tracks with no cleats on the back end. Why I don't know, he is a good operator so I'm sure their is a reason for it. But how it works is when you turn, the machine articulates and just the back half turns because the bald tracks slide. So it seems like you have to back up about twice as far as you should have to, so the front end can follow the rear. Just simple maneuvering would have me pulling my hair out sometimes.
 
Too many irons in the fire

chevytaHOE5674

In hardwood thinnings swinging is a necessity, also cutting out of buncher piles needs a machine that can lift and swing wood loose. A rubber tired machine will do it just fine, but I find the Ergo does it better. If you ran the Scorpion all the time you would get used to it and learn to work with it. 

But 15-20k hours in one style machine produces habits that are hard to break. Im very used to staring at that crane pillar and being able to see the cranes position at all times. I hate on the Scorpion that you can't see the geometry of the crane for the most part, also hate that you can smash the head into the cab.

Also you were doing your bars/chains wrong. Swing off to the right and put the head over the tires. I change bars and chains without ever getting off the machine.

We have 5 feet of snow on the ground so there isn't much sideways sliding going on. Lol

chevytaHOE5674

My other complaint with the cab (other than the complete lack of visibility) is the cramped-ness of it. The forwarder/Ergo cabs are huge in comparison, plenty of room for my boots, jacket, lunch box, etc. Also plenty of room to bring my two boys in the cab and let them ride around fairly comfortably, or have a ride along meeting with the forester.

The scorpion cab had enough comfortable room for one guy and not much else. Lol

barbender

Yes Ponsse cabs other than the Scorpion are awesome, comfy and a ton of room. However, I didn't know if the Scorpion cab was going to work out for one very important aspect of my CTL machine operating- 





Walt was able to find a spot behind the seat!😊 I didn't know if it was going to work out at first, as the Scorpion was as foreign to Walt as it was to me. It started out with me having to lift him and place him in his spot, but he finally figured out how to jump up on the seat and bounce off a few things and make his way up on his own😊 He feels humiliated when I have to lift him up so I was happy he figured it out. 

 Walt is 9 now, and he doesn't have the spring he once did. He used to jump right up the ladder on the forwarder, poor little guy can't do that anymore🤷

 Good point on reaching the head from the steps, I should've thought of that as like you also mentioned you can smash the head into the cab without trying too hard, so I know it comes back that far😁
Too many irons in the fire

Southside

You know how they say owners and their dogs look alike?  :D
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
White Oak Meadows

barbender

 Boy I'd hate to see your dog then😁 I'm picturing a hybrid between an English Bulldog and one of those Mexican hairless ones so it could be bald😂

Also, that cab leveling is awesome, except when it isn't. 





 If you look at the top of the computer screen and notice the angle, that is because something went wrong with the leveling and it tipped all the way to the one side. I couldnt manual level it, nothing worked. I had a heck of a time getting out of the woods because the weight of the crane was shifted to the one side, so I had to keep locking the differential just to drive down the trail.  I had Ponsse come out and figure that one out and I'm not sure what they even found. I just know that it works now😊 Ponsse has some top notch techs in the Grand Rapids, MN location, and their guy that specializes in the electronics and computer is very good.
Too many irons in the fire

chevytaHOE5674

I've got a 40lb blue heeler and 2 young boys. The scorpion cab is a no-go for us. Lol

barbender

I hear that! Walt is about 20 pounds, and unfortunately my kids are old enough that they don't want to come ride around with their old Dad in the machine anymore anyhow🤷😊
Too many irons in the fire

Resonator

QuoteWalt is 9 now, and he doesn't have the spring he once did.
"Can jump just as high as I used to, just can't stay up as long." (Old saying). ;D

Looking at a pic of a Scorpion, that definitely is an odd design with the yolk like frame wrapping over the cab. I wonder if that was more of a concept design idea to be different than the rest, than be practical.
Under bark there's boards and beams, somewhere in between.
Cuttin' while its green, through a steady sawdust stream.
I'm chasing the sawdust dream.

Proud owner of a Wood-Mizer 2017 LT28G19

barbender

 A big part of it was to one up John Deere, which has a rotating "conventional" cab. It seems to have succeeded in that respect, as many guys have switched from JD to s Scorpion in the last few years.

 If the cab had 360 degree rotation, that would make a huge difference. On our first Scorpion, the operator had a moment when his stomach sank when he got to the end of a cut strip and went to spin around 180° to drive out, and realized the cab doesn't turn that far👎

 To put this in perspective, imagine being in an excavator that can only turn a little more than 90° to each side from straight ahead. At least a track machine is easy to turn around, now imagine having a 20' long "pod" behind you. 

 
Too many irons in the fire

Southside

Funny, I have had a few Old English Bulldogs over the years. Now it's Bassett Hounds that hold down the couch for me.  Picture a 4' long version of Walt.  ;D
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
White Oak Meadows

Riwaka

Tigercat does the 1165 harvester in a 6x6 might take dollar out of the price compared to 8x8 version. 360 rotate on the cab/ crane combo.

Ponsse drop profit.

https://www.forestry.com/editorial/ponsse-reports-increased-sales-but-less-profit-in-2022/

Where is Logset situated?


Thank You Sponsors!