A few questions for those of you in the frigid north! I spent my teenage years in lower New York and all we used there were studded snow tires for several months of the year, never had chains.
Out here, it is quite common to have to "chain up" to make it over the passes in the winter to get to the play grounds. A set of chains run about $150 for my truck, cables about $100. Quite often, unprepared folks will go up to Tahoe to ski or vacation in the snow and end up buying some chains and never use them.
Today, I lucked out at a thrift store that had a pile of such chains on a cart they wanted to get rid of - so ridiculously marked at $2.00 a pair! I picked up these two pair that fit my Tundra (2wd, 4dr).
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/20190114_2009_chains.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1547516987)
Never used and one had the receipt for $84 in the bag from 2009. The one bag's stitching was dry-rotted and fell apart. It is now stored in an old Craftsman plastic tool box. So here are the questions so be kind ;)
Which are better, actual chains or cables?
Of these two cable sets, which should work better in packed snow? On ice? (Large or small "rollers"?)
Our road to my cabin project is not being maintained this winter (hit and miss plowing) so it is a mile of a mixture of packed snow, crusty ice on snow, ice ruts and black ice. A real joy!
Since I have two set (but only 2wd), would I see some benefit in mounting a set on the front for steering/braking purposes? Or would I just look like a moron? :)
One set came with the rubber rings and S-hooks to be used as a chain tensioner. Specifically with these cable chains, is that necessary/does it help?
Chained up plenty of times in my previous life. Judging by the photos those would be emergency only, short distance use. Chains take a beating and you don't want them coming apart on you.
I never chained my steer tires unless I was in the woods, but always chained all trailer axles if that answers your question.
Well, typically, you chain up to go 5 to 10 miles. If its more than that, you might as well stay home. People on the late News complaining they spent 6 to 8 hours (or more) trying to get over the pass (30 miles) when its a bad storm. Crazy stupid. ::) I'd only be going a mile or two on my side road off the freeway only because its not plowed.
I see many more cable sets in the store then chain. The cables are pretty thick (almost 1/4") and they seem pretty durable with the rollers taking the beating. I think a lot of the newer cars don't have the clearance for chains. And, of course, you are supposed to keep it under 30mph. They CHPs keep you under 20mph. On the traffic cameras, they look to be going about 5 mph when chained up. :-\
Interesting thought on the trailer tires. But I won't be towing anything.
Any Les Schwab near you? I got my chains from them, sometimes I would have to run chains a good ways across the Sheldon Wildlife Refuge when coming out of Winnemucca, there was no option to stay home when you are there. ;D
I have never seen those. When I was a kid, we had strap chains (2 runs of chain, connected by a strap that went through a slot in the rim) and I think I still have a pair, they were for short runs only at low speed, but very easy to put on. I used full chains on all my vehicles when needed and 4 chains on 4WD (Put that in low Loc and it will go anywhere). I've only ever bought one set, picked up others at garage sales and have an 80 pound bucket full of cross chains and connectors and the proper tool for opening and crimping the links. So with each new vehicle or tractor, I make a set of chains. Probably what I will be doing on Sunday for my Mule, which does not have them yet. (little tires are a pain in the butt.)
Let us know how those cables work and how many you put on each tire, or is it a full wrap like regular chains? I can't tell from the photo. I am very curious about those.
Oh and yes, do use those tensioners, first they keep the rig straight on the tire, but also keep the whole mess from flying out and tearing out your wheel well. I ran chains without tensioners, just once. Took about 40 feet before they were sideways on the tires and wrapped around the axle.
When I drove truck out west we were required to carry chains from October through April. We carried cable chains because they were lighter, and took up less space when stored. Check with your state what the rules for highway use are. Also check your tire size to see if they will fit right, (the owners manual might have guidelines too). Couple tips: cut a couple wood blocks wide enough to drive up onto, with notches cut for the chains to set in. Makes it easier to center them on the tire, and wrap around. Put them on snug, and drive forward and re-check tension. I carried heavy duty rubber bungee's to "x" across the wheel to add extra tension. If they get too loose they will sling around and do damage, or get thrown off. Best to put them on right before you need them, and remove when your back on good traction road.
OK, here's a little more information. When it is a big storm, CalTrans and the CHP setup stops to make sure you have chains OR 4wd before they are needed. Sometimes you have to have chains WITH 4wd - those are the days to stay home! :D They typically stop the big rigs about 5 to 10 miles before the mandatory chain ups to make sure they have chains. Everyone stops along side the road to chain up at the current snow level. There are several stretches of road (1/4 to 1/2 mile long) at different elevations. Snow "levels" change during a storm and so do the chain-up stations. Likewise, there are chain off stations on the other side of the hill. They do NOT want chains on any longer then necessary because they damage the roads. Across the crest of the Sierras, the right hand lane (trucks mostly) have worn ruts in the concrete with their chains. You can drive a few miles and never have to steer! :D
In my case, I'm not crazy enough to go up there during bad conditions (Like today!). However, my road is snow and ice covered so I will be using them there and going about 10mph for about a mile.
I thought cables were a pretty common thing, maybe not. While cables are lighter than chains, chains are a LOT easier to store. You have to roll these up to get them in the storage bag/box. You need about 4 hands to do it. ;) Here is one set of my cables. The cable in the cross links is a little thinner but also has a wrap on them like a spring for more wear resistance from the crimped on rollers.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/20190114_2009_chains_b.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1547578307)
These ends are the adjustments for fine tuning the fit.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/20190114_2009_chains_c.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1547578316)
And fit into the key slots at the other end with the loose extra going into the little slider you see up the cable a bit.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/20190114_2009_chains_d.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1547578358)
The other pair I have have larger spring-like rollers and one side has a cam action to tighten up the set.
I looked up what cables I needed for my tires and these set ARE the correct ones I need. I've tried them on as well. I've heard the idea to cut some blocks before, thanks for reminding me.
Thanks for the photos, I understand now. I have never seen these, must be a west coast thing OR I should get out of the woods more. I like that block idea, should work for regular chains too and I will try that this weekend if I need to and make the chains up, which might take me an hour or so. Let us know how they work. I see your issue with storage, wondered about that. Chains do store easy, but untangling is another matter :).
I have two sets of SAE Class "S" tire chains that we always carry with us to Colorado. Yes, we have had to use them.
If I understand what I have read correctly. All of the current pickup truck manufactures tell NOT to put any type of chains on the front of your 4WD trucks. Something to go with the ABS senor wiring. I know my 2012 F150 Super-crew tells you not too.
Bruce
True, if you had a chain to break, it could cost you some big $$$ to repair whatever it tore loose. I would only chain the fronts if that was the only option between me and getting out.
About chaining trailer tires, that is generally a requirement if the trailer is equipped with brakes.
In the small town I grew up in in eastern NY the sound of chained up vehicles was common in the winter as the roads were often hard packed snow covered.
I used to hear them when lying in bed before dozing off.
The ones described here with the canvas strap we called mud hooks and were for very temporary use.
The school buses were chained up often with triple side chains as were the fire trucks
When it comes to traction: all season tires<studded snow tires<cables<chains<V-bar chains, with the V-bar chains being the best. How deep is the snow? What grade are you trying to climb? I would try it and see if you can make it up with the cables, but bring the required tools to un-stick yourself if need be. In 2wd, I would add some weight to your bed. I've used sand bags or tractor weights to help with traction on the drive axle. When I'm chaining up, I chain the rear first, then the front if I think I'll need it. Even just 2wd, I would still chain the front to assist with steering. Remember, the tires have to be turning for the chains/cables to work. So, if you find yourself skidding downhill and not turning, let off the brakes so your cables can engage the ground. If you are low speed, you shouldn't need any tensioners such as the rubber bands that were mentioned previously.
There are two ways that I install chains. The first is to drape the chains over and latch at the bottom, or lay the chains out in front of the tire and drive forward until the tire is in the middle. The second way is easier on a hard surface such as pavement, snowpack, etc. It is easier to get a nice tight fit and not have to crawl under your truck. The first way is for when I'm in loose snow, or already stuck :D Good luck, and let us know how it goes!
Quote from: submarinesailor on January 15, 2019, 04:19:06 PM
If I understand what I have read correctly. All of the current pickup truck manufactures tell NOT to put any type of chains on the front of your 4WD trucks. Something to go with the ABS senor wiring. I know my 2012 F150 Super-crew tells you not too.
Bruce
I'm only 2wd but point well taken.
Raining pretty good right now and supposed to get real bad tomorrow and Thursday with a total rainfall between 5 and 7 inches in places, 5 feet of snow up the hill. Needless to say, I WON'T be going up there this week!
To get any life out of chains you must drive real slow.
Good score on the chains. ;D
Put them on as tight as you can. If you're not cussing they're not tight enough yet.
Keep 5 or 6 hundred pounds of sand in the bed of the truck. And as cool as it is to see
big rooster tails of ice and snow, if you want them to last? No wheel spin. None.
We run cables on the steer tires of our snow plows at the road department where I work when it gets bad, usually put only one on the right steer tire, the ones we use look identical to those in the picture, they work pretty good. I would pick chains myself if choosing between them and cables.
In all the years I drove truck Iused cable chanes 1 time just 1 time as a drage chain on the trailer it came off on the inside of the tire and it took a torch to get it out of there after that it was back to the standerd chains to me cable chains are just junk
Back in the late 90's when I started driving school bus the buses that had routes in the hills had automatic chains (called On Spots). On a hill, before you got in trouble you slowed to 20 MPH or less and turned them on. A motor near the rear tires descended then spun them and centrifugal force flung the 6 or 8 short lengths of chain under the tires and it helped traction. They spun until shut off. I think the spin speed matched your road speed but not sure. The buses no longer have those, they just have limited slip differentials now and better tires. If a bus gets stuck now, the driver calls in and the city or county, depending on who maintains that road comes and plows or sands the road.
Maple Flats,
I saw something like that on the internet. Then I noticed them on emergency vehicles in the high country up here (ambulances & fire trucks). There is a vertical axle that has some chain lengths on them along with a little wheel. The wheel/axle moves in to touch the inner sidewall of the back tires near the bottom. That makes it spin and the chain is flung under the tires whether going forward or reverse. Seems like a really great idea - wish they made them for the average consumer. Maybe someone will make them and post in the Daily Fabrication thread!
On spot chains have been around for a while. We have them on all our fire trucks and ambulances. They are good for short period and emergencies when you don't have time to chain up. (i.e. the roads are all fine and you get to a house for a fire and find the driveway was not plowed.)
You can NOT go over 30 with them. They will only work going forward, the chain stubs do break off over time and need to be checked. In very deep snow, they can be of questionable value because the snow blocks the chain from swinging under the wheel. But they are known to be life-savers when you need them. I really don't think I would want them on a personal vehicle, because of cost, upkeep, and effectiveness. I did love having them on my truck when I was first due on a house fire at 3am during a blizzard and I was alone on the truck.
It's an easy choice here in Ontario - no chains, cables, or studs allowed by law. I don't think it's enforced all that heavily outside of the 401 corridor.
Quote from: submarinesailor on January 15, 2019, 04:19:06 PM
If I understand what I have read correctly. All of the current pickup truck manufactures tell NOT to put any type of chains on the front of your 4WD trucks. Something to go with the ABS senor wiring. I know my 2012 F150 Super-crew tells you not too.
Bruce
If you're on roads that need chains, I don't think ABS is going to be much help either. Now that I think about it, ABS is more of a hindrance trying to stop on slippery surfaces than a help.
I have seen a lot of cable chains like that laying along the road on the passes over the years.