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Sawing in winter

Started by Will M, January 04, 2022, 09:15:09 PM

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Will M

Happy New Year to all. Own a new Big Green Wide mill by Vallee out of Quebec and now that the logs are well frozen I am having problems  with the blades. Majority of logs sawn are Ash from 12" up to 36". These logs have been harvested dead (from our invasion of Emerald Ash Borer )  and register about 18% moisture at time of sawing. Anything bigger than 16" wide I only get to saw 2-3 logs before blade seems to dull. Get wave at big knots if I don't change blades. Currently running 203"x11/2" x .050 x 1tpi x10 degree hook angle for blades. Other problems arising is if I ignore blade getting (dull) and keep running I am breaking a  more blades. I know from working in high production softwood mills previously that we ran different blades in dead of winter and different blades again in springtime when logs were partially frozen. Would appreciate any input on what I should order as not only are blades expensive but wait time is 4 weeks plus.And manufacturers websites seem contradictory. Thanks all.

Southside

I know @Bruno of NH swears by the Frost Notch band for frozen logs.  Sounds like you might have an issue with dirt in your logs too.  Are you running a debarker?  As you know, if you are getting waves then your band is already past due to be changed.  The fact these logs are dry isn't helping things either.  Taking the frozen component out of the equation I would suggest a Turbo 7 profile for dry ash.  I run a 1.75" x 0.055 x 7/8" TPI Turbo 7 band FWIW. 
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
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White Oak Meadows

WV Sawmiller

  The very first thing I would do is change to a 4* hook angle. 

  There are also some blades with a frost notch I think designed for winter sawing and you might read up or others may comment on them as I have never used them. Good luck. Let us know what you find.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

Bruno of NH

I have great luck with the frost notch bands in the winter.
If I didn't find out about them I would saw very little in the winter. 
Lt 40 wide with 38hp gas and command controls , F350 4x4 dump and lot of contracting tools

SawyerTed

Congratulations on the new mill!  

Are you debarking the logs?     

You are talking about 2-3 logs 16" and over which is likely around 400-600 board feet depending upon the lengths and diameters you are cutting.  Around 400-600 board feet on a blade isn't terrible given frozen logs, harvested dead and bark.  

It is tempting to try to stretch the sawing time on a blade due to economics.  This is especially true starting out but the return on the quality of the lumber outweighs the costs of sharp blades.  Remember small band sawmill blades are a consumable.  
Woodmizer LT50, WM BMS 250, WM BMT 250, Kubota MX5100, IH McCormick Farmall 140, Husqvarna 372XP, Husqvarna 455 Rancher

Will M

Thanks for the replies. Very much enjoy this forum and all the hands on information available. Not running a debarker, option not available. Majority of logs because they are dead the bark is off them already, (or easily removable) harvested last winter. There is a fine layer of bug poop on log which this time of year I brush off with steel brush. In warmer times I power wash as I am setup beside farm pond. I have emailed Wood Mizer previously but their blades are not available in my required length. I have noticed that sawdust is extremely fine lately and am putting that to the fact that it has been below zero degrees or colder as of last couple of weeks. Sound while sawing is noticeably different as well. Did saw a couple of spruce just felled and went through them like butter. So am surmising that the dryness of the ash is big factor as well. And yes realize now that I was trying to get too much sawtime out of a blade.

Bruno of NH

One piece of advice 
A band can dull on frozen logs in 2 cuts without a debarker.
A band can dull on 4 cuts with a debarker hitting dirt and ice exiting the log.
Dry ash sawing for me requires lots of lube.
My point when a band is dull it's dull .
It takes more bands on frozen logs .
Lt 40 wide with 38hp gas and command controls , F350 4x4 dump and lot of contracting tools

Lostinmn

I've had good luck with 4 degree blades in mid winter (northern MN).  Might be worth a try!

Will M

Thanks for all input folks. Have ordered 4 degree hook with 7/8 TPI from Kasco. Will let you know how they perform come first of Feb. They not only had best delivery dates but best price as well 8).

SawyerTed

Just to add a couple of thoughts. One is blades are consumable after several sharpenings. 

The second is everybody seems to have preferences on blade manufacturers, hook angle for various species and conditions.  Try some different ones until you find what you like. 
Woodmizer LT50, WM BMS 250, WM BMT 250, Kubota MX5100, IH McCormick Farmall 140, Husqvarna 372XP, Husqvarna 455 Rancher

Stephen1

Ash is not my favourite wood to saw. It is usually has died standing and quite dry when I get to saw them.Almost a powder, doesn't matter which blade I have used over the years. I now run 7/39 turbo for everything.  As Ted says 4-600 bd ft is a great amount of lumber per blade. if your getting waves you should have changed the blade sooner. 
IDRY Vacum Kiln, LT40HDWide, BMS250 sharpener/setter 742b Bobcat, TCM forklift, Sthil 026,038, 461. 1952 TEA Fergusan Tractor

Jacob7

Quote from: Will M on January 05, 2022, 05:58:24 PM
Thanks for all input folks. Have ordered 4 degree hook with 7/8 TPI from Kasco. Will let you know how they perform come first of Feb. They not only had best delivery dates but best price as well 8).
Hey Will. Just wondering if you could give me a number for max Cant thickness on your green Monster. I can't seem to find that number anywhere. I'm from Alberta Canada and looking at ordering one of those mills also. 

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