At what propane price does it become cheaper to heat water with electric

[21incher]

I am at the point my water heater will need replacing soon. It's a 17 year old propane one that had a 6 year warranty. When installed propane was about $1.69 a gallon and electric 13 cents a KW. Now propane is over $5.00 a gallon and electric about 16 cents a KW delivered. Wondering if it would pay to switch over to electric with 3x cost increase of propane over the years. Plus at the same cost as a propane unit there are some higher efficiency electric units. Seems to me with uncertain propane costs and supply issues it would pay me to switch. I have a 50 amp breaker from the old electric stove that could be rerouted and replaced with a 60 amp that seems to be the electric requirement for them. Lets get some opinions.

[florida]

Residential Water Heater Cost Calculator | Efficiency Maine

Figure it out here. Looks like electric is way ahead

[tawilson]

Check out heat pump water heaters. Hot water plus air conditioning sounds like a good deal.

[alan gage]

How much usage? I've had electric at my last 2 houses and it's plenty cheap enough. Only me living here though. 

Propane here is only $2/gallon and that's considered high. It's usually closer to $1. Electric is .13

Alan

[SwampDonkey]

$5.17 a gallon up here and electric 11 cents. Electric anything has beat fuel for years up this way. By at least 18 years.

[SawyerTed]

The following are some basic numbers for comparing propane with electricity.  Forgive me Hank Hill  :D :D Given 3 hours of water heating time per day.....

A water heater will use around 1.5 gallons of propane a day, if I recall correctly.
An electric water heater will use about 14 kw a day. That's 4.5 kw each for 3 hours. 
If propane is $5 per gallon and a kw is $0.13


1.5 x 5 = 7.50 per day propane
14 x .13 = 1.82 per day electricity

Electricity wins by a long shot.

[stavebuyer]

Make sure you do the math on your electric bill. By the time they finish with the various taxes, surcharges, and add on environmental fees my actual price per KW used is about double the stated rate.

Going forward electric rates will skyrocket and propane will probably become illegal.

Pick your peril. 

[21incher]

Thanks everyone.  Definitely  looks like electric wins in our case.

Residential Water Heater Cost Calculator | Efficiency Maine

Figure it out here. Looks like electric is way ahead

Thanks for the link. That's a great resource when comparing the efficiency of the appliance versus price of the water heater.  I just read an article you are better off buying  a seperate heat pump because they outlast most water heaters so down the line it's  cheaper to replace a simple water heater.  I just found Bosch recently  started making a unit specially for Amazon and will probably go that way to start and add a heat pump if the operating cost justifies it. With well water there's a big temperature differential so I don't  think the energy guides are accurate. 
Never thought that electric would  be cheaper then propane to use for heating water in my lifetime.  

Make sure you do the math on your electric bill. By the time they finish with the various taxes, surcharges, and add on environmental fees my actual price per KW used is about double the stated rate.

Going forward electric rates will skyrocket and propane will probably become illegal.

Pick your peril.  

I go by actual delivered cost. They recently did add surcharges to the bill. At this point  in time nothing is stable but I figure they have to keep electric costs down to get people  to buy electric vehicles. 

[SwampDonkey]

There's parts of the bill that are recurring no matter how much you use, service fee being one. Tax rate is generally stable for long periods, where as fuel is not stable, which is also taxed. I generally don't see a rate/kwh increase here more than once in 3 years, and just 1 or 2 pennies.

[jimbarry]

... With well water there's a big temperature differential so I don't  think the energy guides are accurate. ...

Here's a thought... what if you installed an older water tank into the cold water line before the hot water tank? The idea being to have the cold well water get up closer to room temperature before it gets to the hot water tank. 

[beenthere]

What Jim suggests is what I do. Pre-warm the well water before it goes into the domestic Propane gas water heater.
Still operating fine since 1994 (and still no maintenance or replacement of parts). 

[Jeff]

Beware pf code changes in that time frame if you have your gas waterheater in a closet with limited space. You have to buy a special water heater that is extremely expensive. It disables it's self if it detects gas and has to be inspected before returning to service.  We are in the land of natural gas, and because of this, went to electric because they were a 5th the price of what we had to buy to meet code.

[Menagerie-Manor]

May want to consider a propane On-demand water heater since your already setup with gas, I swapped over a few years ago and never looked back.

[21incher]

Jeff my current  water heater just has a tee in the furnace chimney and no longer meets the codes so a powered fan one is required to replace it. It's in the middle of the basement so plenty of clearance. I am thinking electric is the best choice now because  that would  need new venting and electric anyway to meet code. I just checked  and the old 50 amp stove outlet has enough  wire to reach water heater so it should just require a new breaker to match the heater and I won't  have to buy wire.

A preheating tank is a good idea. I could  leave the old propane heater in place that would be good for long power outages also and put the electric  one behind it.

 I actually was thinking  a small heat pump they make for water heaters in the future that's  supposed  to cut 25% of the cost to heat water with  electric.  

[Magicman]

At the Cabin I went from LP to an electric on-demand.  It was a $aver for me.

[WV Sawmiller]

   How many women live in your house? 

   My experience with electric is it could never keep up with my wife and teenage daughters. I got tired of cold showers and was thrilled when I moved here and we had natural gas. JMHO.

[dougtrr2]

I am in an unusual situation.  I have natural gas from a farm tap.  The gas company is going to work on that line and will shut off my gas for a month.  They have paid the cost to install an electric water heater.  (Lucky me, my gas water heater was 18 years old)  They are also going to pay me a significant daily fee for my inconvienence.  So I could easily wind up with enough money to switch back to natural gas with no out of pocket expense.

I plan on seeing what effect the electric heater has on my bill and then decide whether to keep in or change back.  So far with just the wife and I the electric heater seems to do fine.

Doug in SW IA

[21incher]

The biggest cause of running out of hot water no matter  what type of fuel is used is having  an improperly sized heater. It's  very easy to calculate based on the flow rate of your  fixtures.  Another  problem  that occurs  in electric units is maintenance based on the type of water you have. With  high TDs content you may have to remove and clean the elements yearly because  of mineral build up on the elements.  I just sized a unit based on a 90 deg temp rise and it looks like I have to go up to a 50 gallon  electric  from the 40 gallon propane I currently  have because  of recovery rate. I currently use 200 gallons  of propane  a year for hot water that is about $1000.00 and the energy label on the electric replacement says it will be around  $450.00 when I use my current rate so the change theoretically should  pay for itself in a couple years. I will see.

That preheat  tank is a good  idea and I found a 20 gallon  electric  heater and some 48 volt DC electrodes that will fit it. I think in the future I will buy 3 48volt 450 watt solar panels to play with.  Most laundry  is done on sunny  days so it can be hung out so this may actually help out without a big investment. 

[kantuckid]

Make sure you do the math on your electric bill. By the time they finish with the various taxes, surcharges, and add on environmental fees my actual price per KW used is about double the stated rate.

Going forward electric rates will skyrocket and propane will probably become illegal.

Pick your peril.  

We live in KY, and get our juice from Clark Rural Electric. No way I'd ever go to propane in todays world at this location and off grids not gonna happen here either. That math's really simple-electric is lots cheaper, total bill considered. Delta NG comes to the edge of our land but it's about a 1/2 mile of pipeline out of my pocket to run the line to the house. Back in 1978 when we bought this place they would add no new customers, as the current thinking back then was that NG supplies were less than a hundred years. Maybe 20 yrs later we began to get letters offering us service. The line cost makes it nonsensical to go to NG at our ages. 
Actually in the beginning my FIL was going to drill us a NG well, as this entire area we live in is full of old wells-then he died the month we moved in and that deal ended. 
For the history books, I paid 7 cents a gallon into my own 1,000 gallon LPG tank when I moved here in 1973, and then it was 37 cents a gallon in KY. Gasoline was also much higher here too.   

[Jeff]

I had the pig topped off in the U.P. this week because there is a real chance up there, that prices could turn propane into unobtainium.  

The bill was $313.76  for 90.1 gallons delivered.

[SwampDonkey]

 Another  problem  that occurs  in electric units is maintenance based on the type of water you have. With  high TDs content you may have to remove and clean the elements yearly because  of mineral build up on the elements. 

I ran one here on hard water for 16 years trouble free, there was nothing to clean. The one in the new house runs off water softened water and has 9 year warranty, again nothing to clean.

[scsmith42]

May want to consider a propane On-demand water heater since your already setup with gas, I swapped over a few years ago and never looked back.

^^^ This.
I have a tank style LP water heater in the house and an LP on-demand style in the veterinary clinic. My replacement WH for the house will be on-demand LP.
If you're only heating what you use I think that LP is cheaper.

[rjwoelk]

Check out heat pump water heaters. Hot water plus air conditioning sounds like a good deal.

The only problem is once your water is hot you get no cold, unless you use a lot of hot water.  So in summer you would get a little bit of cooling, but in winter you need to dump the cold outside. Pointless to heat then warm up that cold air allover again.

[doc henderson]

it is hard to compare unless you know the price of all, and try to compare apples to apples. point of use is more efficient.  a few years back, NG and wood were about 7 bucks per million BTUs, and electric and LP was 14 bucks.  

[Larry]

I just sized a unit based on a 90 deg temp rise and it looks like I have to go up to a 50 gallon  electric  from the 40 gallon propane I currently  have because  of recovery rate.

I would double check the size tank.

While building my house a few years ago we lived in the shop with a 30 gallon unit equipped with an extra insulating blanket.  Just the two of us and we never ran out of hot water.

I put a 40 gallon in the house, again just the two of us most of the time.  Occasionally have quests that brings occupants to five.  Never ran out of hot water.

Another option is two small hot water heaters.  Only run one until you have a need for extra hot water like with house guests.