The Forestry Forum

General Forestry => Drying and Processing => Topic started by: Percy on January 22, 2022, 03:14:48 PM

Title: Air drying portable roofs…..
Post by: Percy on January 22, 2022, 03:14:48 PM
I’m working on a 120,000 bdft quote of 6x6,2x4, and 2x6. All 16 foot. The quote says to sticker/air dry under a roof for 3 months for weight loss making helicopter moving the product more cost effective. I don’t have that kind of roof coverage so I thought about little portable roofs o could set on top of each stickered lift. Approximately 79 of them. I’m wondering how effective they would be?? Our climate is fairly rainy and there is some “sideways rain” here. Any suggestions on how I could cost effectively pull this off??
Title: Re: Air drying portable roofs…..
Post by: ljohnsaw on January 22, 2022, 03:36:40 PM
I would make pallet frames that are at least 1' overhang on all four sides.  Maybe even 1.5'.  You could make them out of 1x4 material.  Then lay 1x4 wide spacing over top.  Top that with tar paper and that should last maybe 6 months.  Better would be corrugated metal but not very cheap now!  To protect from the sideways rain, do you have a prevailing wind direction?  If so, on that side hang shade cloth and anchor at the bottom when you have wind.  Raise it up when it is sunny not raining.
Title: Re: Air drying portable roofs…..
Post by: doc henderson on January 22, 2022, 04:12:55 PM
I am wondering how big your packs will be.  obviously 16 feet wide.  can you price a double car port and if you can stack 2 or 3 packs high, how many would you need.  then can sell afterwards, or place them in a way you can use them in the future.  I assume there is compensation for the air drying.  so you have the space?  need a flat surface to stack on.  or find and old cheap warehouse space.  you could get the fabric shelters, and include this cost in your estimate.  or wood frame with 6 mil plastic or reinforced tarps. 
Title: Re: Air drying portable roofs…..
Post by: ljohnsaw on January 22, 2022, 07:46:00 PM
wood frame with 6 mil plastic or reinforced tarps.

Get black plastic or tarps to absorb any sunshine you might see and radiate it to the wood.  Leave the ends open so it acts as a wind tunnel.
Title: Re: Air drying portable roofs…..
Post by: Southside on January 22, 2022, 09:32:50 PM
Don't have any additional suggestions, but you are the king of portable roofs and have the video to prove it!!   :D
Title: Re: Air drying portable roofs…..
Post by: YellowHammer on January 22, 2022, 11:14:48 PM
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21488/275209A2-6A4A-42F4-9BDA-75E5F6823C85.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1517514552)
 

Some of about 2,000,000 bdft under roof at a mill down the road.  A double pallet for a top, a layer of asphalt mobile home roll roofing for waterproofing and weight, and a tall forklift.  The packs are 8 feet wide, up to 16 feet long.  Even wind driven rain can only penetrate a little into the sides of the packs, and OSHA allows 4 stacks high.  These are double rows, with a forklift path between them.  Double row after double row.  Large concrete cross ties of gravel make up the base of the stack.  These stacks are as impressive in person as in the photo, they fill the horizon.  Sometimes, they will drop huge curtains of shade cloth down the sides of some specific packs.  

I do this, on a much, much smaller scale on my concrete pad.  It’s works fine.    
Title: Re: Air drying portable roofs…..
Post by: Crossroads on January 23, 2022, 01:36:23 AM
That’s an impressive stack of lumber!
Title: Re: Air drying portable roofs…..
Post by: customsawyer on January 23, 2022, 07:41:57 AM
I would mention to the buyer that some boards on the sides of the pack might have some discoloration on the edges. It would be a shame to go to all of that work and then have the customer back out. 
Title: Re: Air drying portable roofs…..
Post by: Percy on January 23, 2022, 10:18:19 AM
Thanks for all responses and suggestions. The wood will be used for building drill pads in remote locations accessable only by helicopter so discoloration is not an issue. After the wood has been sitting for 3 months, before the customer picks it all up, I will need to unsticker and package it in smaller lifts the helicopter is able to manage safely. Its alot of work, typically the kind that I am unfamiliar with and am not sure how to price all the extra work/conditions/packaging and weighing to get the maximum safe amount of wood in each lift.....In the past, these folks would just buy tight piled lifts of these products and construct their own "helipacks". Any advice on pricing the "extras" in this quote?
Title: Re: Air drying portable roofs…..
Post by: thecfarm on January 23, 2022, 10:34:23 AM
79 of them??
 That will take some time too!!
Title: Re: Air drying portable roofs…..
Post by: customsawyer on January 23, 2022, 12:27:01 PM
As far as building 79 little roofs I don't think I would be sighing up for that. If it were me I would put several bundles in each stack and then a row of miss cuts on top of the highest pack. There is always a few of them. At 79 bundles you will have right at 1500 bf in each bundle. stack them 3 high and with the layer of miss cuts or lower grade sacrificial boards on top for protection. You could make the top protection layer 2 or 3 deep where each layer is covering the cracks of the one below it. Place it to where the rain runs off length wise.
As for pricing. I charge 20 cents to stack with stickers on customers wood. The main reason I charge that much is because I don't like to do it. So I would charge 20 cents for stacking, 10 cents for unstacking and then have to figure the time to weigh the first few bundles. Once you get those weighed you should be able to get pretty close just with the bf number. Might not be accurate enough for the helicopter. Do you have access to scales with out having to haul the wood? I would think the extra handling to make helipacks should be worth at least another 50 cents per bf. If it wasn't to much trouble they would still be willing to do it. One lesson I have learned in dealing with this kind of companies is that you don't ever want to say you won't do something. Price it to where you will make good money at it and let them be the ones to say yes or no.
Title: Re: Air drying portable roofs…..
Post by: customsawyer on January 23, 2022, 12:30:49 PM
What are they drilling for?
Title: Re: Air drying portable roofs…..
Post by: doc henderson on January 23, 2022, 01:00:16 PM
If you need special equipment that you do not already have, see if they have it for you to use, or price it in, such as a scales.  charge for the pallets ect.  will this be a recurring gig?  will there be liability if a pack is over weight?  will they be checking with a scale in lift line (I bet they do).
Title: Re: Air drying portable roofs…..
Post by: Southside on January 23, 2022, 01:31:12 PM
Helicopter outfits don't usually understand cheap, they understand zero failure, and it works as expected. 

Like Jake said, price your labor into it and don't apologise. 
Title: Re: Air drying portable roofs…..
Post by: GAB on January 23, 2022, 01:39:39 PM
Percy:
I have never done anything like you describe.  However, I have a few suggestions.
Whatever you come up with for handling multiply by 1.5 to 2.0 for unforseens.
Is there such a thing as a load cell for a forklift so you can see the weight on the forks as you stack or restack.
Make sure you know how much wane is allowable.
79 packs is an odd ball number.
Good luck.
GAB
Title: Re: Air drying portable roofs…..
Post by: customsawyer on January 23, 2022, 01:42:01 PM
One of the outfits I work with have scales on the FEL so they don't overload the trucks with chips. Might be able to get a set of those for one of your pieces of equipment.
Title: Re: Air drying portable roofs…..
Post by: YellowHammer on January 23, 2022, 03:27:54 PM
If roof coverage is an issue with individual panels, I would either find a open warehouse to rent (Uncle Bob's Self Storage) or price in some fraction (or all) of construction of my own covered roof building.  That way, this job would pay well, and also help invest in my business in the future.  


It sounds like you also need to either find a set of scales, or buy some.

I personally would price the whole thing out as if I hired labor to do all of it, with me as a supervisor, also on pay.  Much like a construction company job or contract job, with me being the overwatch management.  People plus materials, plus machines, plus time, plus margin, plus insurance, plus.  Then give them a fair price you can defend and live with.

 



Title: Re: Air drying portable roofs…..
Post by: moodnacreek on January 23, 2022, 07:39:32 PM
I have been making these for years. In the beginning i made them light, one side sheathed, put tires on for the wind. Now I make them both sides sheathed solid, 1 inch bad lumber on 2x4 the heavier the better no weight on top. This way you always have a flat surface. they are 5" 6" wide and 4' longer than needed, ie for 16' stuff you should have 20'. All my piles are 4' wide except 10" stuff makes 50". Rib tin roofing on top. Most lumber I stick at 2' so you can drive by and count the length, drives the customers crazy that I don't measure anything.
Title: Re: Air drying portable roofs…..
Post by: WV Sawmiller on February 27, 2022, 07:10:14 PM
  Maybe a wild suggestion but if you know you are going to have to break them down for future lifts can you just palletize in smaller packs like your will use in the final lift, stack on top of each other then the roof on top? Looks to me like you could eliminate double handing in the future that way. Just a thought.
Title: Re: Air drying portable roofs…..
Post by: Stephen1 on March 18, 2022, 08:31:44 PM
I have seen tractor trilers hauling loads of wood south from north of me have a layer of poly between the top row of crap wood as Custom Saywer talks about and the rest of the bundle. Stack 3-4 bundles high. Now you only need 20 stacks. The stacking and stickering price sounds resonable. I always like to add the 20% profit to all my work and wood I sell. I make my hourly wages and equipment cost and then the buisness makes the 20% profit. 
Title: Re: Air drying portable roofs…..
Post by: caveman on March 22, 2022, 11:29:44 PM
t sounds like you also need to either find a set of scales
I've bought several sets of livestock scales from A and A scales off of Ebay.  I have a set at home and another at school and they work as well as the tru-test scales that cost 10x more.  I've wired up several other sets for other folks.  There are four load cells that bolt to your platform.


They have gone up on their price to $225 but I've had very little trouble out of these units and when I've had issues, the guy answers the phone and will help figure out the problem.  These have a 5000 pound capacity and work on AC or DC.